What's going on with Ryzen 7 3800x clock?

[Techea]

I've done some benchmarks with the Ryzen 7 3800x. In idle state NZXT shows peak of the clock around 4500Mhz. Under stress the cpu clock doesn't raise over 4150Mhz. 

I might not be that technical but shouldn't the cpu perform at maximum clock under stress? What's the point to have the clock 4.5 Ghz when I browse the internet or check 

the mail. It doesn't make sense. In all my tests the clock is under 4.2. It just doesn't want to raise higher than that. I enabled PBO in bios and actually made it worse, it was

around 4Ghz under stress, and by enabling  PBO I wasn't able to get into bios in a x570 Gigabyte aorus pro wifi motheboard. I had to use Windows /Recovery/ Restart and

so on to open bios and disable useless function PBO. I won't even try to overclock the cpu because I know it will perform worse than the basic setup. Someone more knowledgeable

please explain to me why this thing doesn't reach 4.5 Ghz under stress because it defeats the purpose of it. Ty for your time.

[Statik]

What do you mean you can’t get into bios?

 

PBO won’t be able to boost all cores to 4.5Ghz under 100% load. That would be identical to an all core 4.5Ghz OC. What it WILL do, is boost a couple cores as high as possible depending on the core/thread workload.

 

the amount it boosts to depends on temps, voltages, workload, stress on the CPU, etc. 
 

EDIT: It’s boosting to 4.5Ghz in low thread count workloads because it can easily boost a few cores to 4.5 without issue, maximizing the performance you’re getting in that smaller workload.

[Purgent]

You're never going to see 4.5 across all cores while loaded.

[Techea]

Then the question is why I don't see at least one core boosted to 4.5 Ghz? Why I see it boosted to 4.5 Gzh in idle state? I'm not sure if you just trying to defend something that doesn't work or I'm speaking in chinese here. Bottom line the cpu doesn't perform at 4.5 Ghz under stress when you actually need it. As I said it doesn't raise over 4.1 Ghz. How could I make it more clear than that? I'm thinking I got a defective one and I'm ready to ship it back and most likely I will ship back every single one of them who doesn't reach 4.5 under stress. Why do they advertise nonsense to customers? Just say it's 4.15 Ghz and it's all good.

[boggy77]

24 minutes ago, Techea said:

Then the question is why I don't see at least one core boosted to 4.5 Ghz? Why I see it boosted to 4.5 Gzh in idle state? I'm not sure if you just trying to defend something that doesn't work or I'm speaking in chinese here. Bottom line the cpu doesn't perform at 4.5 Ghz under stress when you actually need it. As I said it doesn't raise over 4.1 Ghz. How could I make it more clear than that? I'm thinking I got a defective one and I'm ready to ship it back and most likely I will ship back every single one of them who doesn't reach 4.5 under stress. Why do they advertise nonsense to customers? Just say it's 4.15 Ghz and it's all good.

Artificial stress tests are mean to load all cores to the max. The 3800x cand get an all core boost of about 4.1

In real situations, like browsing, you only use 1 or 2 cores. The system can boost those to 4.5, while keeping the others at 3.6 or whatever. You won't see 4.5 in stress tests unless you configure your stress test to only load one core.

[caldrin]

I dont think the nzxt sotware can actually read the stats from the cpu correctly.. well that was the case when the new AMD cpus first came out.

I would use something like CPUID hardware monitor to see what the CPU is actually hitting.

Also its worth making sure you have the latest bios for your mobo and latest drivers from AMD.

Also check out the following custom power plan.

https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/1usmus-custom-power-plan-for-ryzen-3000-download.html

With new bios and latest drivers + this power plan my 3800x was able to hit 4.5+ on all cores.. of course not at the same time  before doing this maybe only one or two of the cores where hitting 4.5

Also make sure Windows is fully up to date, i think Windows updates towards the end of last year also included some improvements for AMD CPUs. 

 

[DildorTheDecent]

13 hours ago, Techea said:

I've done some benchmarks with the Ryzen 7 3800x. In idle state NZXT shows peak of the clock around 4500Mhz. Under stress the cpu clock doesn't raise over 4150Mhz. 

I might not be that technical but shouldn't the cpu perform at maximum clock under stress?

No. That would be extremely wasteful. It's more energy efficient to back off clock when more cores online since you've more cores to execute the task. By scaling back the clock speed AMD can hit there energy target and the CPU will output less heat. Every "turbo boost" algorithm operates like this. Also, whenever a CPU advertises a boost clock it applies to ONE core. Maybe two. But usually it's just one.

Quote

What's the point to have the clock 4.5 Ghz when I browse the internet or check 

the mail. It doesn't make sense.

Zen 2 has an aggressive "wake to sleep" approach. The CPU core wakes, executes the function, and then sleeps again. During that time it'll boost to as high as it can. That's why you'll see the clock increase.

Quote

In all my tests the clock is under 4.2. It just doesn't want to raise higher than that.

You're either limited by motherboard or cooling. Or both. Want more boost? Keep the temperatures down. Every 10C increase means you'll lose some 25-50MHz.

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc

Quote

I enabled PBO in bios and actually made it worse, it was

around 4Ghz under stress,

PBO extends the official power, current and thermal limits of the processor. Sure the reported clock may have been lower, but it would have been much more consistent across all cores due to less fluctuation.

Quote

and by enabling  PBO I wasn't able to get into bios in a x570 Gigabyte aorus pro wifi motheboard. I had to use Windows /Recovery/ Restart and

so on to open bios and disable useless function PBO.

Just because you don't know how a feature works doesn't make it useless. If you watched the Zen 2 keynote or looked at posts from actual AMD engineers/users and overclockers over on Reddit you'd have an idea as to how the stock PB2 algorithm works and how PBO alters it.

 

Having to go to recovery is your own doing. Hitting the CMOS reset button would have been a smarter move.

Quote

I won't even try to overclock the cpu because I know it will perform worse than the basic setup.

It won't. If anything achieving a fixed frequency as opposed to letting PBO vary it across all cores will be much faster. My 3950X at stock boosts to 4.7GHz on two cores and used to boost to around 4.2-4.3GHz on all cores and scored 9100 on CB R20. Now, with a fixed frequency of 4.2GHz it scores 9800cb. That's a 700cb gain by taking the time to dial in an overclock that works.

Quote

 doesn't reach 4.5 Ghz under stress because it defeats the purpose of it. Ty for your time.

Again, having all cores boosting to 4.5GHz is extremely wasteful and inefficient.

 

Here's a gigantic master thread that you should read before you respond:

 

[Techea]

 

Motherboard x570 aorus pro wifi  with bios F11

Ram 32 GB 3200Mhz running at 3200Mhz

Noctua 9h-d9l heatsink 2 fans 

 

 If I render something out in a 3d app or compute millions of formulas at once I need this thing to perform at maxim possible speed, not when I browse the internet. Not even one single core reaches 4.5 Ghz when rendering out. Simply is not performing as advertised. In reality is a 4.15 Ghz maxim boost. Why the idle running temp is between 50-60C all the time is another paradox of amd's cpu because Ryzen 2nd generation has the same problem. 

 

Regarding the Custom Power Plan

 

x570 aorus pro doesn't have CPPC available.

No such thing as AMD cool quiet.

Global C-State Control is Enabled by default

Power Supply Control on Auto by default. It didn't make any difference set on Low Current Idle. 

PC test bench.

 

I say leave the default settings on for best performance. 

 

[Jupsik]

54 minutes ago, Techea said:

 

Motherboard x570 aorus pro wifi  with bios F11

Ram 32 GB 3200Mhz running at 3200Mhz

Noctua 9h-d9l heatsink 2 fans 

 

PBO is a crap feature that shouldn't be in the bios in the first place. 99.99% of all bios tweakers agree with that. It doesn't matter what it does as long as the end result is worse than without it. People are interested with performance which translates into speed. If I render something out in a 3d app or compute millions of formulas at once I need this thing to perform at maxim possible speed, not when I browse the internet. Not even one single core reaches 4.5 Ghz when rendering out. Simply is not performing as advertised. In reality is a 4.15 Ghz maxim boost. Why the idle running temp is between 50-60C all the time is another paradox of amd's cpu because Ryzen 2nd generation has the same problem.

 

 

 

I'll start by saying that I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I do have 2 ryzen cpus and have lurked on these forums for a good while. From what I understand, the boost clock is advertised as 'up to', meaning that it's not advertised as a 4.5 ghz all core boost, but an up to 4.5 ghz core boost.

 

Further, as noted above, Ryzen is temperature sensitive and you've indicated that yours idles at 50-60C. With your cooler, that is not normal and very likely prevents your cpu from boosting properly. Perhaps your cooler doesn't make proper contact with the cpu and needs to be reinstalled.

 

To put things into perspective, my ryzen 1600x idles between 27-35C (with an 240mm AIO) and my 3600 idles at 40-45C with the stock cooler. Admittedly, the 3800x requires more power and thus more cooling, however 50-60C with that cooler at idle is just way to much (unless ur case is an oven or something).

[Techea]

9 hours ago, DildorTheDecent said:

No. That would be extremely wasteful. It's more energy efficient to back off clock when more cores online since you've more cores to execute the task. By scaling back the clock speed AMD can hit there energy target and the CPU will output less heat. Every "turbo boost" algorithm operates like this. Also, whenever a CPU advertises a boost clock it applies to ONE core. Maybe two. But usually it's just one.

Zen 2 has an aggressive "wake to sleep" approach. The CPU core wakes, executes the function, and then sleeps again. During that time it'll boost to as high as it can. That's why you'll see the clock increase.

You're either limited by motherboard or cooling. Or both. Want more boost? Keep the temperatures down. Every 10C increase means you'll lose some 25-50MHz.

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc

PBO extends the official power, current and thermal limits of the processor. Sure the reported clock may have been lower, but it would have been much more consistent across all cores due to less fluctuation.

Just because you don't know how a feature works doesn't make it useless. If you watched the Zen 2 keynote or looked at posts from actual AMD engineers/users and overclockers over on Reddit you'd have an idea as to how the stock PB2 algorithm works and how PBO alters it.

 

Having to go to recovery is your own doing. Hitting the CMOS reset button would have been a smarter move.

It won't. If anything achieving a fixed frequency as opposed to letting PBO vary it across all cores will be much faster. My 3950X at stock boosts to 4.7GHz on two cores and used to boost to around 4.2-4.3GHz on all cores and scored 9100 on CB R20. Now, with a fixed frequency of 4.2GHz it scores 9800cb. That's a 700cb gain by taking the time to dial in an overclock that works.

Again, having all cores boosting to 4.5GHz is extremely wasteful and inefficient.

 

Here's a gigantic master thread that you should read before you respond:

 

Take a screenshot with the 9800 in cinebench 20 to make it believable. Are you saying that PBO enabled is helping you? Man

[DildorTheDecent]

57 minutes ago, Techea said:

Take a screenshot with the 9800 in cinebench 20 to make it believable.

Don't really understand the point of this request, but if you must see something here's my 10k result instead:

Spoiler

57 minutes ago, Techea said:

Are you saying that PBO enabled is helping you? Man

No. I'm using a manual overclock (which for whatever reason I've labelled it as fixed frequency, I'll blame it on being tired). PBO wasn't worth the excessive power and temps. Package power was somewhere in the 230W range and the temps were 90-95C which is a bit much. And the boost clock bouncing all over the show wasn't my cup of tea.

[Techea]

2 hours ago, DildorTheDecent said:

Don't really understand the point of this request, but if you must see something here's my 10k result instead:

  Reveal hidden contents

No. I'm using a manual overclock (which for whatever reason I've labelled it as fixed frequency, I'll blame it on being tired). PBO wasn't worth the excessive power and temps. Package power was somewhere in the 230W range and the temps were 90-95C which is a bit much. And the boost clock bouncing all over the show wasn't my cup of tea.

Good score. I've just installed a Synthe Ninja 5 and now temperatures are between 45-50C in idle state. Just a little better I would say. What kind of cooler do you have for the 3950x? AIO most likely but which one? 

[DildorTheDecent]

1 hour ago, Techea said:

What kind of cooler do you have for the 3950x? AIO most likely but which one? 

Nope. Don't need an AIO for the 3950X. I use a Dark Rock Pro 4.

 

It'll be part of a custom loop in the future. So going to try for a higher overclock.

[Mihle]

And just saying, it's the same thing with Intel CPUs. By standards they will only reach boost on one or two cores.

 

Tho there is some mobos that have all core boost turned on, but that is out of normal spec and is more of a out of the box OC.

[Techea]

8 hours ago, DildorTheDecent said:

Nope. Don't need an AIO for the 3950X. I use a Dark Rock Pro 4.

 

It'll be part of a custom loop in the future. So going to try for a higher overclock.

One good thing about Scythe Ninja 5 is that temperatures don't go over 69C under stress. The only drawback is the size of it. However I can't score more than 5007 on CB20 without probably overclocking the cpu. It should be clearly stated 4.15Ghz max boost. Not one single core goes over that under stress. They inflate the numbers on all of them.

[DildorTheDecent]

4 hours ago, Techea said:

It should be clearly stated 4.15Ghz max boost.

How many times must this be said: 4.15GHz is not the max boost. It's the boost that you are achieving.

4 hours ago, Techea said:

Not one single core goes over that under stress.

Run a single thread test like SuperPI. See what one core boosts too.

 

You will not see your 4.5GHz boost clock whenever you are stressing all the cores. That applies whenever just one or two cores are under load.

[Midnitewolf]

I think others have mentioned this but all core boost is much lower than single core boost.  Most stress tests run on all core so that is why you see a lower boost.

 

When monitoring my 3800x I generally see 2-3 of my cores alternatively hitting 4.524 Ghz max boost while all the cores can reach at least 4.441 Ghz which I feel is great since I am running it completely stock.  Under an all core stress I see around 4.211Ghz on all cores if I am recalling correctly.  With manual overclocking I can achieve an all core boost of 4.5 Ghz at 1.4 volts no problem and honestly I think if I wanted to really tweak it, I could probably get that on 1.385 volts but since my non-OC boosts were so good, I didn't find it necessary to do much than run a single stress test at 4.5 Ghz all core just to see if could do it stably.  Overall I am tickled pink that each and every core can get within 50 mhz of the rated max boost and that 3 of the cores can exceed this stock.  It is a great CPU.

[ewitte]

Gamers Nexus ran at different temperatures stock settings can hit 4.4Ghz all core under LN2.  good water is about 4.2Ghz.

[Techea]

7 hours ago, DildorTheDecent said:

How many times must this be said: 4.15GHz is not the max boost. It's the boost that you are achieving.

Run a single thread test like SuperPI. See what one core boosts too.

 

You will not see your 4.5GHz boost clock whenever you are stressing all the cores. That applies whenever just one or two cores are under load.

Which means mines is defective and I should return it, right? I will do more tests to see what's going on with it. Decent mobo, decent cooling system but cpu is not performing. Very disappointing right now. 

[DildorTheDecent]

9 minutes ago, Techea said:

Which means mines is defective and I should return it, right?

Since there's no getting through to you, feel free to do what you want.

[Temperfied]

Clearly this OP doesn't understand how it works. It is not defective, your thoughts on its operation is.

I would do some more research before posting.

[StDragon]

On 2/5/2020 at 8:38 PM, Techea said:

Which means mines is defective and I should return it, right? I will do more tests to see what's going on with it. Decent mobo, decent cooling system but cpu is not performing. Very disappointing right now. 

So, I was in the same boat (R7 3800x) until I read this thread ... So basically here's what's going on. Assuming you've got the power and cooling requirement (which I believe your setup qualifies), you too should be able to boost to 4.5Ghz but ONLY ONE THREAD!! That's by design. You can saturate just a single thread (with all others idle) and the chip will flex it 4.5Ghz. Now if you start loading up other threads, that head-room drops to allow the chip in totality to remain within power and cooling specs. It's all part of the equation as to when, where, and duration of activity is on the chip. You'll never hit all cores 100% at 4.5Ghz. That ain't going to happen.

 

So while it's a stretch to say AMD is misleading, I agree in that they're not being clear about it to the average consumer as to limitations in all this boosting capability. Having a product core-load matrix showing max freqs to that of core utilization (1 through 8 and beyond) would be exceedingly informative upon first glance IMHO

That all said, the way I can prove the above this is by downloading and installing 7-Zip and Ryzen Master. Now open Ryzen Master so you can see all cores and Peak Speed in view. In other window, open 7-Zip and choose Tool --> Benchmark from the drop-down menu. Set your Dictionary size to 512MB (If you've got 8GB of RAM), then select 1 for thread count to lock it at 1 thread of utilization. Now let it run (Restart button) and watch your Peak Speed. I personally hit 4512 Mhz (4.51Ghz). Though on average with subsequent runs I get 4.47Ghz. YMMV.

 

Now, do the same thing with 16 thread benchmark. You'll have to drop down the Dictionary Size, but basically set it to the maximum or just below your physical RAM limit; it's listed right there so just play with the drop down until you dial it in. The point with a large dictionary size is so you can have the CPU benchmark as long as possible without finishing to cool back down. Anyways, once I set it to 16, threads on average my CPU boosted to 4.23Ghz. That was the wall it hit with all cores maxed out.

[svmlegacy]

On 2/3/2020 at 11:07 PM, Techea said:

please explain to me why this thing doesn't reach 4.5 Ghz under stress because it defeats the purpose of it.

The 3800X is a 3.9 GHz part, and is advertised as such. It uses CPB (Core Performance Boost) and PBO (Precision Boost Overdrive) to push the frequency up to a max of 4.5 GHz when able. I'm having trouble finding the actual tables for it, (edit: It seems that there isn't tables for this variant of boost. My points are still valid, however) but opportunistically, given enough cooling and enough VRM capability, it will push harder (With PB or Intel TurboBoost, to a limited number with respect to active cores). You're seeing 4.5 during single core operations (web-browsing, etc) because the package is using much less power, opening up headroom for more performance on less cores.

[Sphereslip]

My 3800X came in at 4350.1MHz across all cores with a max of 4350 MHz - 4375 MHz on default settings out the box, (CPU max temp load around 70 degrees Celsius) without playing with Ryzen Master settings (or BIOS).

[kiwibacon]

i have never seen 4.5ghz under any situations,

normally get 4.2ghz with pbo/default/auto oc.  

i run 4.375ghz @ (1.2V)

it took 1.4V to reach 4.4ghz