[UPDATE:Bugfix bricks USB, audio, and more] The Very Hungry Cortanapillar - Cortana eating 40%+ CPU usage with update despite tester warnings

[Chunchunmaru_]

They seriously need to consider making avaiable the stable branch of that OS even for Home and Pro version of Windows

 

And please don't start saying people can just use Linux, in businesses you can't even think to make your customer use Linux on computer clients with an AD domain especially (they can barely use Windows anyway) with rare exceptions

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, Chunchunmaru_ said:

They seriously need to consider making avaiable the stable branch of that OS even for Home and Pro version of Windows

Yeah........ I don’t see that happening.

[JoeCoke]

Yeah I'll be using Windows 7 until I can't anymore, then I'm going to Linux. Screw this! And if I need Windows 10 for any reason on my system, it'll be in a VM, and I'll purposely leave it a couple of months behind on updates at all times. Like seriously, this is the kind of stuff that makes Windows a joke, how am I supposed to take it seriously if we get shit like this every other month?

 

EDIT:

For anyone damage controlling with the "this isn't affecting THAT many systems" excuse, WHY? Why are you okay with this stuff? I don't care if it was just affecting 10% of computers, that's still a big deal! Hell, 5% is a big deal!

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, 2Buck said:

EDIT:

For anyone damage controlling with the "this isn't affecting THAT many systems" excuse, WHY? Why are you okay with this stuff? I don't care if it was just affecting 10% of computers, that's still a big deal! Hell, 5% is a big deal!

no ones o.k with it.  We just aren't that naive to think a flawless OS exists and treat a 5% experience as a 100% experience.

 

 

[JoeCoke]

16 minutes ago, mr moose said:

no ones o.k with it.  We just aren't that naive to think a flawless OS exists and treat a 5% experience as a 100% experience.

 

 

Of course there is no flawless OS, and any Windows version is about the farthest thing from that, but Windows 7 sure didn't have a new problem every season.

[Trik'Stari]

How about they just get rid of Cortana and stop using it to spy on customers?

 

That'd be great.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, 2Buck said:

Of course there is no flawless OS, and any Windows version is about the farthest thing from that, but Windows 7 sure didn't have a new problem every season.

Yes it did, windows 7 is basically a reskin of vista,  apart from the fact it had 3 more years of in the field development than 10 it also had just as many update issues as 10 does.  the difference is now that 10 includes feature updates as well as the normal security and performance updates and has several different flavors spread across the same inordinate number of varying computers they have had to build a system to Analise individual pc's before releasing some of the updates/upgrades.

 

If you grow linux to the same user base and force it to both support legacy and maintain all the current hardware it would have the same update issues as mac and windows does now (and mac doesn't even have the same variation in hardware).   What evidence is there to suggest it will do a better job the windows at the same scale?  Nothing, it might or it might not.  no one here has a crystal ball.  I will call anyone who thinks windows has more problems than linux without a fair way to evaluate a comparison naive.  just like it is naive to claim Linux doesn't have a place or isn't popular for other reasons or that windows enjoys an advantage in maintaining its market share solely because it is better. 

 

 

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, 2Buck said:

Windows 7 sure didn't have a new problem every season.

That because Windows 7 was not a rolling release. Before Windows 10, generally Windows versions got security updates. On occasion they might received 1 or 2 feature updates known as service packs. XP actually had 3 service packs. 

 

The issue with Windows 10 is Microsoft is ignoring the problems. The Windows insider program was for people to test the new builds for usability and stability. I dont think Microsoft is really looking hard at that data. So they are not catching the problems before the patches are released. 

 

I think the biggest issue is, Windows 10 is made up of very new code and very old code. As they have to keep legacy support. If Microsoft was able to drop legacy support, maybe things would be better. But they cater to businesses and businesses dont like change. 

[bcredeur97]

3 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

How about they just get rid of Cortana and stop using it to spy on customers?

 

That'd be great.

compromise: make it an installable add-on. I just won't install it...

[Thaldor]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The issue with Windows 10 is Microsoft is ignoring the problems. The Windows insider program was for people to test the new builds for usability and stability. I dont think Microsoft is really looking hard at that data. So they are not catching the problems before the patches are released. 

 

I think the biggest issue is, Windows 10 is made up of very new code and very old code. As they have to keep legacy support. If Microsoft was able to drop legacy support, maybe things would be better. But they cater to businesses and businesses dont like change. 

The biggest problem for 10 is actually that they try to update it like it was a just any application and not an OS. AFAIK 10 still uses NT-based kernel (which wasn't that great when it first came) and that thing has been like a roller coaster all of it's existence, sometimes it works and other times it doesn't and sometimes it's just a huge mess that somehow manages to work, but usually it has become usable after many fixes later (like 7 became good around the SP1). Now that they are pulling feature updates every half year and all they seem to care is to add this and that and those features, they just don't seem to work anymore to fix the mess they have been baking since Windows NT.

 

The other part is that they don't test a shit anymore. What I have heard there isn't any in-house testers for Windows anymore at Microsoft but the first alpha test are run on their working PCs and after that dumped to users. Hallowed be those souls that have opted in for the insider program and gotten so far that they get those "Beta0" updates, when even the poor souls in the normal insider are cursed to get the "Beta1" updates that have been in the headlines for their file swiping properties and other problems quite a long time. And then the cherry on the top is that Microsoft is even shitting down the throats of the normal users who make the dear mistake to press the "Check updates" button with fully updated Windows.

"10/10 costs savings and visibility; 0/10 trustworthiness and stability"

Like anyone else doing the same would be already charred on the crucifix and probably even the ashes would have flown away with the wind for even pushing some very stable beta updates to users that haven't especially opted in for them and been told multiple times that they might fuck things up. But not the Microshit, not them, there is still people who wave the flag like it would be they could never do anything stupid or if they do, someone else must have done it before or something far worse, or the best defence "the other OS doesn't have the userbase and machinebase to support in the volume of Windows and that's why they cannot do as good job and also because they must support and include this 50 years old punch card driver which is so vital to everybody ever that it must be hidden, welded and made regenative to the very system core". Seriously, testing your shit isn't rocket science and with those incomes it cannot be a problem to hire professionals to do that testing. And for fucks sake, it cannot be that fucking hard at the year 2019 to make every single driver downloadable from the internet for those couple poor companies that still use tech as old as punch cards, like for real you can find drivers for shit that was made 20 years ago and even then they were extremely rare devices and their drivers are still delivered with Windows 10.

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

The biggest problem for 10 is actually that they try to update it like it was a just any application and not an OS. AFAIK 10 still uses NT-based kernel (which wasn't that great when it first came) and that thing has been like a roller coaster all of it's existence, sometimes it works and other times it doesn't and sometimes it's just a huge mess that somehow manages to work, but usually it has become usable after many fixes later (like 7 became good around the SP1). Now that they are pulling feature updates every half year and all they seem to care is to add this and that and those features, they just don't seem to work anymore to fix the mess they have been baking since Windows NT.

 

The other part is that they don't test a shit anymore. What I have heard there isn't any in-house testers for Windows anymore at Microsoft but the first alpha test are run on their working PCs and after that dumped to users. Hallowed be those souls that have opted in for the insider program and gotten so far that they get those "Beta0" updates, when even the poor souls in the normal insider are cursed to get the "Beta1" updates that have been in the headlines for their file swiping properties and other problems quite a long time. And then the cherry on the top is that Microsoft is even shitting down the throats of the normal users who make the dear mistake to press the "Check updates" button with fully updated Windows.

"10/10 costs savings and visibility; 0/10 trustworthiness and stability"

Like anyone else doing the same would be already charred on the crucifix and probably even the ashes would have flown away with the wind for even pushing some very stable beta updates to users that haven't especially opted in for them and been told multiple times that they might fuck things up. But not the Microshit, not them, there is still people who wave the flag like it would be they could never do anything stupid or if they do, someone else must have done it before or something far worse, or the best defence "the other OS doesn't have the userbase and machinebase to support in the volume of Windows and that's why they cannot do as good job and also because they must support and include this 50 years old punch card driver which is so vital to everybody ever that it must be hidden, welded and made regenative to the very system core". Seriously, testing your shit isn't rocket science and with those incomes it cannot be a problem to hire professionals to do that testing. And for fucks sake, it cannot be that fucking hard at the year 2019 to make every single driver downloadable from the internet for those couple poor companies that still use tech as old as punch cards, like for real you can find drivers for shit that was made 20 years ago and even then they were extremely rare devices and their drivers are still delivered with Windows 10.

Why do you think I use Pop OS? I got sick of the bull shit. And I was a Windows user since 3.11/MSDOS. 

[JoeCoke]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

That because Windows 7 was not a rolling release. Before Windows 10, generally Windows versions got security updates. On occasion they might received 1 or 2 feature updates known as service packs. XP actually had 3 service packs. 

I know all that, I just really don't care what the reason is, because in the end, 7 did not have nearly as many issues.

 

Quote

windows 7 is basically a reskin of vista

We all know that, but what does it actually matter? When MS labels it a new version, that's just that. If all MS did was improve the way they handled updates, then relabled 10 to 11, I'd say 11 is better than 10. Does it matter that 11 is just a reskin of 10? No, because 11 was the better experience, and therefore the better OS. The same applies with VSP2 to 7.

 

Quote

  the difference is now that 10 includes feature updates as well as the normal security and performance updates

So? Just test the crap before you release it, actually pay attention to the issues the insiders are reporting how about? Don't push an update to the masses until it's proven? I don't care what the excuse is, the Windows 10 update shenanigans are real.

 

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

 it also had just as many update issues as 10 does.

When did 7 users experience even half of the rushed update crap that 10 has? Again, I don't care about the "But Windows 10 updates are more ambitious than 7 updates" excuse.

 

Also yaaaaay, the tired "but Linux isn't perfect either" attention diversion. This is about Windows 10, not Linux.

 

I'm already done with this thread, we've been down this road so many, many times with WIndows 10 and the discussion always ends up the same. This is a problem Microsoft has the ability to improve on with the power they already have, all they have to do is L I S T E N. They should test their updates better, regardless of the excuse, period.

[jagdtigger]

4 hours ago, Donut417 said:

The Windows insider program was for people to test the new builds for usability and stability.

Funny in light of their attempts to paint "telemetry"(read: spyware) as a positive thing by saying its there to get more info about issues and help them diagnose and  fix quicker...

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, 2Buck said:

I know all that, I just really don't care what the reason is, because in the end, 7 did not have nearly as many issues.

 

We all know that, but what does it actually matter? When MS labels it a new version, that's just that. If all MS did was improve the way they handled updates, then relabled 10 to 11, I'd say 11 is better than 10. Does it matter that 11 is just a reskin of 10? No, because 11 was the better experience, and therefore the better OS. The same applies with VSP2 to 7.

So? Just test the crap before you release it, actually pay attention to the issues the insiders are reporting how about? Don't push an update to the masses until it's proven? I don't care what the excuse is, the Windows 10 update shenanigans are real.

 

When did 7 users experience even half of the rushed update crap that 10 has? Again, I don't care about the "But Windows 10 updates are more ambitious than 7 updates" excuse.

you have completely ignored what I said and just repeated yourself.  If you want me to believe win 7 had less issues than ten outside of those I listed regarding 10 being an ongoing with more than just issue patches,  you are going to have to cite something, because experience tells me otherwise.

 

2 hours ago, 2Buck said:

Also yaaaaay, the tired "but Linux isn't perfect either" attention diversion. This is about Windows 10, not Linux.

5 people have mentioned linux as an alternative on this page alone. And you said:

 

15 hours ago, 2Buck said:

Yeah I'll be using Windows 7 until I can't anymore, then I'm going to Linux. Screw this!

 

So don't go trying to dismiss what I said as a tired argument when you started it.

 

2 hours ago, 2Buck said:

I'm already done with this thread, we've been down this road so many, many times with WIndows 10 and the discussion always ends up the same. This is a problem Microsoft has the ability to improve on with the power they already have, all they have to do is L I S T E N. They should test their updates better, regardless of the excuse, period.

 

on these forums it will always go around and around and around because people aren't interested in educating themselves, they would rather persist with ideals and tropes.  It's very popular to just shit on windows rather than invest a little time and critical thinking in understanding why things are the way they are.

 

[realpetertdm]

So should I update to Windows 10 1903? I can hold off on the update for 5 more days

[mr moose]

32 minutes ago, realpetertdm said:

So should I update to Windows 10 1903? I can hold off on the update for 5 more days

I am on it with no trouble.   I am not sure what holding out will do.  if you are unlucky enough to be one of those who experience issues with it I can't see them being fixed in the next 5 days.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I am on it with no trouble.   I am not sure what holding out will do.  if you are unlucky enough to be one of those who experience issues with it I can't see them being fixed in the next 5 days.

I'm on it too and have been for some time. All good for me too.

 

Going back to the DOS days the same arguments about the OS were had. DOS became bloated with legacy and current support and there seemed no way out of it. Then Windows came along. While 3 was a bit iffy, it did improve and eventually managed multi tasking and all the things we expected from an OS of the era. At the time Amiga and a few others had all these features for some time. A lot of the demise of those and the success of Windows was down to ID software but that is another story.

 

Here we are today having the same arguments about how Windows 10 carries so much old cack just to keep people happy. Thing it, it is just not that simple to take it away. Code x relies on code snippet y etc. Then we have gazillions of hardware combinations to deal with, and thousands of software packages all trying to use those gazillions of bits of hardware in different ways, often in ways they were never intended to do. Frankly I am amazed we don't see more problems in all OSs. On the plus side, these problems (With Linux, BS2000, Windows etc) keep me and many others in a job.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, realpetertdm said:

So should I update to Windows 10 1903? I can hold off on the update for 5 more days

Backup your data first. Say 5 hail marry's, and throw some salt over your shoulder. Then try to update. Id also recommend crossing your fingers and toes during this as well. 

[circeseye]

well........i THOUGHT i wasnt effected by the update...i was wrong....the update caused streaming (twitch, youtube) in browsers to bluescreen or crash comp. it (when it showed the error) as a video driver crash/ audio crash . thought it just was a driver issue but it effected the last 4 drivers and i know others were working fine. removed the win update and its fixed..no more crashes

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, circeseye said:

well........i THOUGHT i wasnt effected by the update...i was wrong....the update caused streaming (twitch, youtube) in browsers to bluescreen or crash comp. it (when it showed the error) as a video driver crash/ audio crash . thought it just was a driver issue but it effected the last 4 drivers and i know others were working fine. removed the win update and its fixed..no more crashes

Did you do an in place upgrade or a clean install? I did a clean install of my old machine and had nothing but issues. I did a clean install on my mom's newer machine and it seems to have worked. Of course my mom's machine was recently reset, due to a driver issue. So it was a fairly clean install. 

[circeseye]

4 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Did you do an in place upgrade or a clean install? I did a clean install of my old machine and had nothing but issues. I did a clean install on my mom's newer machine and it seems to have worked. Of course my mom's machine was recently reset, due to a driver issue. So it was a fairly clean install. 

windows? its a upgrade from 7 to 10 when 10 first came out. (yes its been THAT long of a install lol)

if your talking about video driver. i always use ddu before installing a new driver. i knew it wasnt a video driver issue because 19.7.5, 19.8.1 and 19.8.2 worked before and now all had the same crash issue

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, circeseye said:

windows? its a upgrade from 7 to 10 when 10 first came out. (yes its been THAT long of a install lol)

if your talking about video driver. i always use ddu before installing a new driver. i knew it wasnt a video driver issue because 19.7.5, 19.8.1 and 19.8.2 worked before and now all had the same crash issue

No I mean a full reinstall of 1903 from 1804. Or doing a in place upgrade from 1803 to 1903. These creators updates are pretty much service packs, except they cause more issues than they fix. 

[circeseye]

26 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

No I mean a full reinstall of 1903 from 1804. Or doing a in place upgrade from 1803 to 1903. These creators updates are pretty much service packs, except they cause more issues than they fix. 

aaahhh....ive always just did upgrade (and i always wait a month or so before upgrading in case fixes are needed). ive had no reason to reinstall 1903 or any other major update. KB4515384 is the first update ive ever had issues with. and its only a minor one...go fig lol

[Nowak]

On 9/16/2019 at 6:37 PM, Trik'Stari said:

How about they just get rid of Cortana and stop using it to spy on customers?

 

That'd be great.

Now this is an idea I can get behind. Cortana's been useless for years anyway.

[dabockster]

I'm not surprised that Windows 10 continues to be bad considering how Microsoft loves their short term subcontractors. The churn there among the lower ranks is absurd (people often leave/get fired after less than a year). They might say they've turned over a new leaf, but old MS is still in control.

 

How can you build a quality OS if the people building it are effectively replaced every 6-9 months? Or if you're subcontracting that hard? Too many hands shuffling about with no wisdom being gained.