Navi/Ryzen 3000 launch Megathread

[Drak3]

6 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Jay: "I don't know if we're going to ever see 5Ghz on zen 2"

 

Adoredtv: " I have insider leaks ..   insiders " 

"THeY aRe uSiNG PReSS ReLeaSe BioS, 5GHz iS STiLL PoSSiBLe"

 

-You know who.

[Chett_Manly]

AMAZON HAS 3900X STOCK!!!!!!!!!!!! Only took 4 days from launch, but I finally got the order in. 

 

[Chett_Manly]

17 minutes ago, comander said:

F' waiting for the kinks to be worked out... I just ordered. 
Amazon makes it so easy too, I just hit "Buy Now" and swiped - it's almost too easy. 

It arrives the day after I get back in town. 


edit: 5 minutes later and it's sold out. Well I can always evaluate the merit of my impulse purchase while basking in the glow of my order confirmation. 

Hahahha wow. Im so glad I checked this morning. 

[Ravendarat]

I had ordered a 3900x and was told yesterday morning it was in, and I cancelled my order. I have a 3600 I bought on launch day as a hold over and I am very impressed with it right now, so I decided to hold off till the 3950x comes out then make my final choice

[cj09beira]

11 minutes ago, comander said:

I had a debate on reddit with someone. My premise is that supply might be a bit short. 

I had assumed that GN's "these parts can do 200-300W when overclocking" meant they'd OC a lot and would be performance monsters. I was wrong there but the IPC and energy efficiency is high enough that it just doesn't matter. Here and now, these are awesome parts for their price. 

AMD has a winner on their hands and priced it competitively, Intel has a manufacturing problem and the combination of these will be WAY more demand than AMD previously faced. 

ya amd might sell all they can make both in the consumer and the server side, 

at least that will fix intel's supply problems

 

[MMKing]

Any word on 3800x Reviews? It's as if it doesn't exist in the media.

[leadeater]

22 minutes ago, MMKing said:

Any word on 3800x Reviews? It's as if it doesn't exist in the media.

der8auer mentioned it in one of his videos. Largely it's the same as all the others with an OC of the same core count, they all achieve the same/similar all core clocks so looking at OC results of a Zen2 CPU with the same count count will show what it would perform like. Check out Jays latest video on overclocking Zen2 as it shows some interesting results for overclocking the IF, some things get a huge boost from it.

 

[RejZoR]

I was hoping Ryzen 3000 would boost higher in games, but it looks like most games use so many threads already that it pushes clocks lower because of it. Although in general, leaving CPU to boost by itself is the best for games in most cases.

 

I just wonder what's with the auto boosting some AMD's rep posted some time ago where you basically just tell CPU it has more headroom because you have a good motherboard and CPU applies the extra on top of existing boost. But no review really tackled that yet in any way.

[TechyBen]

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

der8auer mentioned it in one of his videos. Largely it's the same as all the others with an OC of the same core count, they all achieve the same/similar all core clocks so looking at OC results of a Zen2 CPU with the same count count will show what it would perform like. Check out Jays latest video on overclocking Zen2 as it shows some interesting results for overclocking the IF, some things get a huge boost from it.

 

To be fare... could we see 5GHz on Zen2.1? Like, that is close... very close.

 

Not that I care, IPC/benchmarks matter more than individual stats (unless comparing within hardware segments/revisions/upgrades).

 

I'm still 50/50 on Intel VS AMD, as most games/sims I would use are going to be doing single core performance only, and that's where any of my benefit is going to be (Kerbal Space Program, Minecraft etc LOL). But if I'm migrating to Linux, and doing a few other things, coding/building packages/binary etc if it utilises multi core, could be a lot faster on AMD Ryzen3, right?

[RejZoR]

Given the clock jumps through generations, Zen 3 should be hitting 5GHz unless they'll be experiencing some other issues and I don't think their clocks are entirely bound to manufacturing process since pipeline design also dictates clocks. Or it's gonna happen that their highest parts will be hitting ungrateful 4.9Ghz

[Kenpachi1985]

Give AMD's new 7nm architecture some time to mature. Think of how long intel has been riding on their 14nm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ (  ) architecture to get where they are now - and then think of how close (or even better) AMD has come with their first release of 7nm.

Its ridiculous btw that Intel has not yet dropped their price for the 9900k and 9700k and shows how high on their horse Intel still is. I will get my 9900k as soon as the price drops and maybe get my next system AMD based, since getting first gen products of a new architecture has some flaws and i don't wanna spend money on such things.

I think that AMD will at least catch up 100% or more likely surpass Intel in every aspect with their next generation of 7nm processors.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, TechyBen said:

To be fare... could we see 5GHz on Zen2.1? Like, that is close... very close.

Maybe, depends what the limiting factor is for raising the clocks, if it's just one (or few) thing, and this is able to be identified. While it looks like AMD and TSMC did a very good job with Zen2 as it is I'm sure a major architecture redesign/structure change along with the node shrink will result in areas that can be improved and ones not too hard to find.

 

I'm a bit hesitant to say 5GHz will be a product spec figure at all in any form but I do expect all cores to reach the current boost figures which this time around represent XFR2+PBO rather than those being an over and above like last time.

 

I'd be taking a good look at the IOD and try to get it's power down.

 

2 hours ago, TechyBen said:

I'm still 50/50 on Intel VS AMD, as most games/sims I would use are going to be doing single core performance only, and that's where any of my benefit is going to be (Kerbal Space Program, Minecraft etc LOL). But if I'm migrating to Linux, and doing a few other things, coding/building packages/binary etc if it utilises multi core, could be a lot faster on AMD Ryzen3, right?

Even the games we generally classify as 'single core' do actually use more but this impacts Zen2 more than it does Intel. Because even lightly threaded games use 2 or 3 threads, plus background tasks, this most of the time prevents Zen2 from boosting to XFR2 on a single core. Intel's boost has much more freedom on that and also preferences single core boost over achieving a higher all core in a lot of situations, though many people run MCE which makes all this a moot difference as it no longer applies.

 

Like I typically advise, go for a better GPU if your CPU isn't truly limiting you. Not getting 140 FPS and instead getting 120 FPS doesn't really matter, same goes for just increasing quality settings. Strike some kind of balance while you wait for CPU offerings or improvements that are more compelling. I'm still on X79/4930K for this reason, I can be CPU limited if I configure it so but I don't so it doesn't matter.

 

I am very keen for an upgrade though, more for upgrade sake than need. I'm stuck on the dreaded 'what if' right now, what if something better is coming soon. Also annoyed 5700/5700 XT doesn't support crossfire, like my entire system is designed around having 2 GPUs and it looks stupid with 1 (big case problems lol).

[cj09beira]

51 minutes ago, Kenpachi1985 said:

Give AMD's new 7nm architecture some time to mature. Think of how long intel has been riding on their 14nm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ (  ) architecture to get where they are now - and then think of how close (or even better) AMD has come with their first release of 7nm.

Its ridiculous btw that Intel has not yet dropped their price for the 9900k and 9700k and shows how high on their horse Intel still is. I will get my 9900k as soon as the price drops and maybe get my next system AMD based, since getting first gen products of a new architecture has some flaws and i don't wanna spend money on such things.

I think that AMD will at least catch up 100% or more likely surpass Intel in every aspect with their next generation of 7nm processors.

intel has a lot to loose if hey lower those prices, amd still wont make enough cpus to satisfy the whole market, and becuase they sell more cpus anyprice drop will affect their bottom like a Lot specially as their 9900k by far their best seller, they will probably look at just how much they will sell at current prices first, still oems are big intel shills i dont expect them to use zen 2 in force for some time

[Kenpachi1985]

12 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

intel has a lot to loose if hey lower those prices, amd still wont make enough cpus to satisfy the whole market, and becuase they sell more cpus anyprice drop will affect their bottom like a Lot specially as their 9900k by far their best seller, they will probably look at just how much they will sell at current prices first, still oems are big intel shills i dont expect them to use zen 2 in force for some time

Intel has a lot to loose if they don't. The cheaper AMD products outrun them in some categories right now and its only going to get worse when Zen2 matures. If they don't react now they will get a huge problem later. Short thinking profit making now could lead into massive market share losses later. We will see.

[79wjd]

14 minutes ago, Kenpachi1985 said:

Intel has a lot to loose if they don't. The cheaper AMD products outrun them in some categories right now and its only going to get worse when Zen2 matures. If they don't react now they will get a huge problem later. Short thinking profit making now could lead into massive market share losses later. We will see.

Something tells me Intel's vast, and well funded, marketing department knows better than you do.

[Kenpachi1985]

1 minute ago, 79wjd said:

Something tells me Intel's vast, and well funded, marketing department knows better than you do.

Say that to Microsoft and their Smartphone attempt or Yahoo or Kodak or Compaq and other huge companies that got stomped cause they did not see it coming although having huge departments for everything.

Benchmarks all over the place show that AMD has closed the gap by a huge margin or even surpassing Intel while still being cheaper. What do you think will happen with their next step? Intel keeps on struggling for years with their innovation and you make such a statement? Regarding to your experience in the forum and the situation you should know better.

 

[TigerHawk]

1 hour ago, cj09beira said:

intel has a lot to loose if hey lower those prices, amd still wont make enough cpus to satisfy the whole market, and becuase they sell more cpus anyprice drop will affect their bottom like a Lot specially as their 9900k by far their best seller, they will probably look at just how much they will sell at current prices first, still oems are big intel shills i dont expect them to use zen 2 in force for some time

The 9900k is not even close to their best seller. They make all their bank on the low tier Pentium and i3 crap they stuff in OEMs and laptops. The 9900k is only a good seller in the enthusiast market which is like...maybe 10% of their sales at most? 

 

I couldn't find any CPUs in stock anywhere here in the nations capital, Canada computers had a nice little sale on the 9900k making it cheaper than the 3900x and faster in games which is all I do so I just bought one of those instead. 

 

Was really looking forward to going AMD for the first time since the athlon 64/x2 days but ryzen 3 just ain't quite there yet for me for high refresh rate gaming.  Maybe the AM5 platform will get me. 

[79wjd]

54 minutes ago, Kenpachi1985 said:

Say that to Microsoft and their Smartphone attempt or Yahoo or Kodak or Compaq and other huge companies that got stomped cause they did not see it coming although having huge departments for everything.

Benchmarks all over the place show that AMD has closed the gap by a huge margin or even surpassing Intel while still being cheaper. What do you think will happen with their next step? Intel keeps on struggling for years with their innovation and you make such a statement? Regarding to your experience in the forum and the situation you should know better.

 

There's a very big difference between not seeing a 'fad' becoming the next big thing and being able to market oneself. There's also a very big difference between knowing how to market oneself and not willing to make an investment to entirely switch businesses.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Kenpachi1985 said:

Intel keeps on struggling for years with their innovation and you make such a statement? Regarding to your experience in the forum and the situation you should know better.

Intel is entirely capable of making a product focus switch to compete in a different manor with AMD if they deem it to be required. Intel has done a vast amount of CPU development and innovation, the difference is they do not sell or market it to you. If Intel wants to up the core count and lower the clocks to make such a product stack viable from a cost point then they can.

 

There is nothing stopping Intel taking their 8 to 16 core server architectures, stripping out memory channels down to 2, removing RDIMM support, removing UPI links, scaling down the PCIe controller, adjusting boost table and increasing tcase limit to align with desktop usage. Or you can do the same but from HEDT starting point. There's a lot Intel can do to cut down die size compared to their current higher core count offerings to reduce costs and create a more diverse product stack and with the clock bins across them.

 

Intel is by no means short of options, in fact their biggest problem is too many options. Intel is much like Goku, after a while you realize he actually has a terrible personality but he will always find a way to win or come back from the dead. AMD is much like Gohan, was once a very powerful person slated to take over but ultimately fell short then drifted in to insignificance for a long time then came back out of nowhere with an actual personality, however still not at the same peak strength level as Goku. Also 6 or so years ago AMD was Yamcha but that just turned out to be a bad dream .

 

Oh and AMD's marketing team is Saiyaman.

 

P.S. Yea I've just been watching DBS. 

[TechyBen]

I guess Intel just need to get their interconnects working then? If they come up with their own binned chiplet/SOC system, then it might work out for them? As long as it don't cook itself in the process. XD

[Chett_Manly]

People counting Intel out are being silly. AMD's biggest advantage right now is the 7nm process. A process Intel could use if they wanted to swallow their pride. Intel can give up on their 10nm and pay Samsung or TSMC for 7nm and start pumping out chips. They have the engineers, money and market power to do it.

 

Just think where Intel would be today if 2 years ago they gave up on 10nm and got onboard TSMC's 7nm customer list. How well would Ryzen 3000 stack up to a 7nm instead of 14nm+++ Intel chip?

[cj09beira]

3 hours ago, Chett_Manly said:

People counting Intel out are being silly. AMD's biggest advantage right now is the 7nm process. A process Intel could use if they wanted to swallow their pride. Intel can give up on their 10nm and pay Samsung or TSMC for 7nm and start pumping out chips. They have the engineers, money and market power to do it.

 

Just think where Intel would be today if 2 years ago they gave up on 10nm and got onboard TSMC's 7nm customer list. How well would Ryzen 3000 stack up to a 7nm instead of 14nm+++ Intel chip?

not so bad actually, they might need to charge a bit less but they would still be really competitive, because they would not be able to clock tsmc's 7nm as high as intel's 14nm, intel would probably loose a good chunk of their clock speed advantage, amd's biggest advantage isn't the node its the chiplet architecture 

[Chett_Manly]

10 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

not so bad actually, they might need to charge a bit less but they would still be really competitive, because they would not be able to clock tsmc's 7nm as high as intel's 14nm, intel would probably loose a good chunk of their clock speed advantage, amd's biggest advantage isn't the node its the chiplet architecture 

If it is the chiplet architecture, why is Ryzen 3000 able to pull so far ahead of Ryzen 2000, which is also chiplet, but 12nm not 7nm. Do you really think they could have put out a 16 core Ryzen at 12nm? 

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, Kenpachi1985 said:

Say that to Microsoft and their Smartphone attempt or Yahoo or Kodak or Compaq and other huge companies that got stomped cause they did not see it coming although having huge departments for everything.

Benchmarks all over the place show that AMD has closed the gap by a huge margin or even surpassing Intel while still being cheaper. What do you think will happen with their next step? Intel keeps on struggling for years with their innovation and you make such a statement? Regarding to your experience in the forum and the situation you should know better.

 

MS are still the biggest company in the world (bigger than apple), Kodak did not fall victim lack of innovation or business sense, they were playing with digital camera's in the 70's, but it wasn't a viable product (way too expensive for the consumer compared to film at the time).  Kodak were among the earliest of digital photography adopters, but the industry is one with a very low cost to entry so by the time the products were viable to end consumers every company that made electronics had their own line of cameras.  Kodak simply fell victim to evolution, there was virtually nothing they could do about that. 

 

4 hours ago, Chett_Manly said:

 A process Intel could use if they wanted to swallow their pride. Intel can give up on their 10nm and pay Samsung or TSMC for 7nm and start pumping out chips. They have the engineers, money and market power to do it.

 

 

I don't think it's as easy as sending your plans over for production,  Their CPUs would have to be re designed to be able to make the most of the different process.   Also it would mean dropping or severely undercutting their own process fabs that they have invested substantial amounts in.   From what I see Fab42 is/has been fit out now for production, which indicate in the next year or two we are going to see some major production of 7nm  chips (although they could be memory and storage chips).  

 

 

 

 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

I don't think it's as easy as sending your plans over for production,  Their CPUs would have to be re designed to be able to make the most of the different process.   Also it would mean dropping or severely undercutting their own process fabs that they have invested substantial amounts in.   From what I see Fab42 is/has been fit out now for production, which indicate in the next year or two we are going to see some major production of 7nm  chips (although they could be memory and storage chips).  

Not only that, any Node issues (Like Ryzen 1’s frequency cap) would also carry over. Imagine a 8700K and 9900K going against a 1600X and 1700X, all hitting 3.9GHz.