A Developer's Defense Of 30 Frames Per Second

[Misanthrope]

A Developer's Defense Of 30 Frames Per Second, a.k.a.  The "Resolution is just a number" argument on crack:

 

"60 fps is really responsive and really cool. I enjoy playing games in 60 fps," Jan told me. "But one thing that really changes is the aesthetic of the game in 60 fps. We're going for this filmic look, so one thing that we knew immediately was films run at 24 fps. We're gonna run at 30 because 24 fps does not feel good to play. So there's one concession in terms of making it aesthetically pleasing, because it just has to feel good to play.

 

The analogy with films would almost work if you could release a film with the audience having total control of the camera or a game 100% on rails. Basically a non-movie movie that behaves like a game or a non-game game that pretends to be a movie. Imho: ugh (to both)

 

Then, on top of it, I don't know of any other games that are gonna look like our game in real-time with no pre-rendered movies, with all the stuff that's going on lighting-wise, and run at 60. I think that's probably the thing that most people underestimate is [that] to make a game look like this—the way that they're lit, the number of directional lights that we have… We don't have a game where you're just outside in sunlight, so there's one light. We have candles flickering, fires, then characters have lights on them. So [to make] all those lights [work] with this fidelity means, I think, until the end of this system most people won't have any clue how to make that run 60 and look like this

 

Oh, I have a clue!.....#PCMasterRace

 

All kidding aside, like I said the argument almost work but with that second paragraph she pretty much revealed that the consoles just can't handle the "next gen" look they want anyway (also see: Watchdogs)

 

http://kotaku.com/a-developers-defense-of-30-frames-per-second-1580194683

[That Norwegian Guy]

I refuse to believe these people are that stupid. They are just paid well to humiliate themselves in front of everyone except the people who are dumb enough to believe it. That there are people that dumb though is kind of sad.

[deathjester]

A Developer's Defense Of 30 Frames Per Second, a.k.a.  The "Resolution is just a number" argument on crack:

 

 

The analogy with films would almost work if you could release a film with the audience having total control of the camera or a game 100% on rails. Basically a non-movie movie that behaves like a game or a non-game game that pretends to be a movie. Imho: ugh (to both)

 

 

Oh, I have a clue!.....#PCMasterRace

 

All kidding aside, like I said the argument almost work but with that second paragraph she pretty much revealed that the consoles just can't handle the "next gen" look they want anyway (also see: Watchdogs)

 

http://kotaku.com/a-developers-defense-of-30-frames-per-second-1580194683

 

HAHAHAH. Thank you for this. Made my day.

[flibberdipper]

Yeah... 30FPS sucks ass though. Try playing a First Person Shooter at 30FPS. You die. A lot.

[Misanthrope]

I refuse to believe these people are that stupid. They are just paid well to humiliate themselves in front of everyone except the people who are dumb enough to believe it. That there are people that dumb though is kind of sad.

 

I don't believe they're THAT stupid, that's the sad part: They assume that WE are that stupid and will buy this argument instead of seeing this for what it really is: The "next gen" consoles being incapable of "next gen" stuff.

 

I think that they should cut all this "Resolution is just a number" and "Cinematic framerate" bullshit and just get fucking Carmack back to develop truly optimized game engines for their crap hardware, that dude really did miracles with the laughably poor 90s hardware I'm sure he could come up with ways to improve shit for all....that is beyond VR of course.

[BonBon Scott]

These 'Next-Gen' consoles are really starting to look good....not.

[flibberdipper]

The difference going up to 60 FPS at minimum makes is fantastic. Even in games like Diablo 3 or World of Warcraft. Even in the older GTA Games like Vice City...

I played Vice City at a solid 60FPS at 1280x1024... So pretty.

[DavidTheWin]

Every time the "24fps is fine for movies" argument is brought up I cringe. They always forget that with a movie you're sat back and watching but with a game you're involved and playing it and a lack of responsiveness is a lack of immersion that you just don't get with movies because you don't have any responsiveness to add to the immersion in the first place.

[Sauron]

I am curious to see how games will run on """"""""next gen"""""""" consoles when they are 8 years old. 360p 25fps? If they can't even run *launch titles* at the targets they're advertizing (1080p 60fps, which should according to them have been the big difference between the 7th and the 8th generation) and actually not even get close (792p 30fps is just ridiculous), how can you expect them to achieve anything better as they get older?

[Misanthrope]

Every time the "24fps is fine for movies" argument is brought up I cringe. They always forget that with a movie you're sat back and watching but with a game you're involved and playing it and a lack of responsiveness is a lack of immersion that you just don't get with movies because you don't have any responsiveness to add to the immersion in the first place.

 

I have an analogy for those folk: Do you like ridiculously shaky cam movies? I bet those make you fucking sick right? How about the unholy combo of non-stop shaky cam AND motion blur? Well that's pretty much the exact same effect you get on a computer game at 24fps, you can't jump cut to different perspectives like good movies do, you have to excessively move the camera creating a highly undesirable effect.

[Fetzie]

That isn't a defence, it is an excuse.

[Murdoch]

30fps could potentially look more cinematic than 60fps. If done correctly. I'm not sure if that's the real reason though. It's most likely just an excuse like Fetzie said.

 

Edit: Edited post cause I miss read article.

[WanderingFool]

This is where G-Sync or Adaptive sync could have really helped

 

In all seriousness though, I personally would prefer a steady 30fps over jumping from 40-60fps...the "24 fps" is just funny though, it is just their way of justifying not having 60fps.  It would be nice though to see the developers put in a feature to turn off the "lights with high fidelity"....I swear, people underestimate the amount of power it takes to handle proper lighting (instead of per-calculated stuff).  In the developers defense though, they didn't say it wasn't possible to do 60fps...they just said they couldn't do it, which is a big difference.  There are many things that go into optimizations of engines (writing assembly specifically optimized for a platform, whether PC, ARM or consoles).  So whenever new systems comes out, it will always take time to learn the optimization techniques....especially when you have a newer game engine (you focus on getting things working over performance).

[Syntaxvgm]

30 FPS is shit and here is why-

IN MOST CASES IT DOESN"T NEED TO BE THAT WAY!

A few small details can be changed to allow for 60fps. 

A lot of games run 720p with AA @ 30fps. WHY AA AT SUCH A LOW RES? TAKE OFF THE AA!

At least this isn't yet another fps @ 30fps. 30fps for and shoot is unacceptable. (I'm looking at you battlefield. Cant even keep 30fps )

All these stupid little bullshit lighting details and other shit really loses it luster at low resolutions anyway. 

You should only push for more details when you don't have to compromise playability. 

[lcater95]

"We're going for this filmic look"

 

 

Really?

[Syntaxvgm]

"We're going for this filmic look"

 

 

Really?

Yah that's the most B.S. thing I have ever heard. 

[Warcony]

Do they think the general public is that stupid? Oh wait, they're targeting the 10 year old kids who yell 'your mom' jokes into their headset while playing cod on Xbox after their bedtime.

[Misanthrope]

Do they think the general public is that stupid? Oh wait, they're targeting the 10 year old kids who yell 'your mom' jokes into their headset while playing cod on Xbox after their bedtime.

 

Those kids don't read Kotaku, or any gaming press for that matter. So it's just plain fucking condescending since they know damn well only older gamers actually read this kind of blogs.

[Syntaxvgm]

Do they think the general public is that stupid? Oh wait, they're targeting the 10 year old kids who yell 'your mom' jokes into their headset while playing cod on Xbox after their bedtime.

 

 

Those kids don't read Kotaku, or any gaming press for that matter. So it's just plain fucking condescending since they know damn well only older gamers actually read this kind of blogs.

Yes they think we are that stupid. 

[RazeG3SG1]

It is total bullshit to us. But it is a great marketing trick targeted towards kids.

[loganryan99]

If you can squeeze enough power out of the last gen consoles to make GTA V look the way it does, why can't you make games that look great on the new generation? Honestly I think it's just a matter of lazy developers, not the hardware. Saying "oh we have too many lights" makes me so angry! Take some of the freaking lights or find a way to make it work, don't just let it run like crap! These new consoles are x86 and DirectX, we've been using these platforms for years. Even if they are using the hardware to its full potential, (they aren't) they obviously knew very early in the development cycle that what they were doing would slow things down.

[LifesCompanion]

[Misanthrope]

"Framerate it's just a number, a filmic number!"

[AllstaRawR]

Yeah... 30FPS sucks ass though. Try playing a First Person Shooter at 30FPS. You die. A lot.

 

C'mon, think of it as training! That way when you move back to your PC you're that much better.

[deathjester]

Do they think the general public is that stupid? Oh wait, they're targeting the 10 year old kids who yell 'your mom' jokes into their headset while playing cod on Xbox after their bedtime.

 

Yes. Yes they do. I have literally showed people the DirectX lead for the past decade saying DX 12 won't matter one bit for resolution on the Xbox One. These people STILL think the cloud (cpu power in theory) and a low level API (that they already have) with new hardware effects (that they don't have) is going to magically increase the Xbox One's resolution and graphics. They will say things like "MS designed the Xbox GPU for Direct X 12".

 

Sony seems to think this was a good plan. After Watch Dog's looks like absolute garbage on "next gen" and Witcher 3 is delayed with the dev downplaying resolution, the Order 1866 or whatever being obviously downgraded in a recent showing (Sony said nuh uh) and now delayed until 2015? Sony is also working on a magic fix per recent news.

 

All you have to do is keep repeating BS over and over again on a forum. Eventually morons start believing it and then they repeat that BS for you. 

 

Hell if these companies can get away with this demoing the kinect? They can get away with anything.