A Developer's Defense Of 30 Frames Per Second

[matin94]

is this suppose to be educating?

[Misanthrope]

 Also, take a look at Linus' Ass Creed video where he said that Playstation 4 got some really good bang for the buck.

 

Linus can be wrong and in this case he is: You might get slightly subsidized hardware, but

 

1) An APU based system can compete already

2) You're buying into a closed ecosystem, meaning that from the get go there's crap like 50 bucks for online play (and no the "free games" shit doesn't justify if you just bought the system and 1 game and wanted to play online) and a lot of "you get this exclusive but miss this other one" BS which not only limits game choices vs PC but also supports this stupid fucking practice

3) It's still an overall flawed system that's not even backwards compatible and when it is, they want you to rebuy games you might already own. I was just playing Doom not a few moments ago, on the same machine I play for 2014 releases.

 

You can't really look at it with a PC minded perspective like Linus did thinking "Oh yeah, for 400 and those specs it's solid" when there's just so much other bullshit that goes along with it to consider. If you could nuke the entire OS and just run windows 7 on it then it might be somewhat decent, but not as the locked system that it is.

[Guest]

What we need to remember is that 60fps is just a number.

[Mooshi]

I thought games were..games..something happening in real time where each frame mattered in terms of a smooth gameplay experience. If you want your games to act like a movie, get Square Enix to make every game..that's practically what their games are anyway.

[LAwLz]

Performance and framerate directly affect gameplay it's not just the "look" of 30FPS that matters. To many console gamers this is irrelevant cause they quite frankly suck and just grew up having auto-aim play for them but with proper performance and internet connections and homebrew servers, PC gamers actually do know better.

Oh God yes. Halo is a great example of this. Each game since Halo 2 have had not only very high auto aim, but also something they call "bullet magnetism", which is when the bullets literally changes their trajectory when they come close to a person. It's like everyone is a big magnet.

They do this to help console gamers with their horrible controls (a controller is not even close to being fast enough in terms of input speed and input lag). We don't need this on PC.

 

Every time I hear "cinematic" as a description of a game I usually compare the game against this great video:

 

I think the quote from Miyamoto in the video sums up what I think of all the "cinematic" crap developers up in games (like a bunch of cut scenes, quick time events and in this case, low FPS):

"I don't want to criticize any other designers, but I have to say that many of the people involved in this industry -- directors and producers -- are trying to make their games more like movies. They are longing to make movies rather than making videogames."

If you are going to make a video game, then make a video game. Don't make it a movie with some interactive parts in between.

[Fetzie]

If you are going to make a video game, then make a video game. Don't make it a movie with some interactive parts in between.

 

And if you want to make movies as a game designer then go apply to Pixar, Pinewood Studios or one of the many other movie studios and join their CGI/Green Screen department.

[Switchblade Ninja]

Do they think the general public is that stupid? Oh wait, they're targeting the 10 year old kids who yell 'your mom' jokes into their headset while playing cod on Xbox after their bedtime.

Aka console gamers.

[Khvarrioiren]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/464912/previews/hands-on-and-interview-the-order-1886s-e3-demo-showcases-style-over-substance/

 

These damn fellas are actually coming right out and saying that they are actually trying to make the damn thing into a movie.

 

 

it's a game, we make games, we can't get around it. We love games, but we also love telling stories, so I think story is always going to be at the top because it's what we start with.

[brownninja97]

yeah this is one of those "ours backs are against the wall" moments, they cant make the consoles more powerful so they have to try and come up with some sort of comment to back themselves and the consoles up.

[flibberdipper]

C'mon, think of it as training! That way when you move back to your PC you're that much better.

It was on PC though. My iGPU can't handle Halo: Combat Evolved.

[Silent_Xaxal]

Linus can be wrong and in this case he is: You might get slightly subsidized hardware, but

 

1) An APU based system can compete already

2) You're buying into a closed ecosystem, meaning that from the get go there's crap like 50 bucks for online play (and no the "free games" shit doesn't justify if you just bought the system and 1 game and wanted to play online) and a lot of "you get this exclusive but miss this other one" BS which not only limits game choices vs PC but also supports this stupid fucking practice

3) It's still an overall flawed system that's not even backwards compatible and when it is, they want you to rebuy games you might already own. I was just playing Doom not a few moments ago, on the same machine I play for 2014 releases.

 

You can't really look at it with a PC minded perspective like Linus did thinking "Oh yeah, for 400 and those specs it's solid" when there's just so much other bullshit that goes along with it to consider. If you could nuke the entire OS and just run windows 7 on it then it might be somewhat decent, but not as the locked system that it is.

 

Not everyone is going to be wanting to use their box for the kinds of things that we PC guys intend to use them for. And quite a lot of people, (Particularly in developed areas, I might add) would value that ease of use over Absolute good performance, so you can insult console gamers all you want, but it's probably not getting to them (And probably shouldn't anywho. It's their money at this point and not yours, and Sony is making a much better value proposition out of the PS4 than Microsoft's proprietary branded gaming PC.).

[Misanthrope]

Not everyone is going to be wanting to use their box for the kinds of things that we PC guys intend to use them for. And quite a lot of people, (Particularly in developed areas, I might add) would value that ease of use over Absolute good performance, so you can insult console gamers all you want, but it's probably not getting to them (And probably shouldn't anywho. It's their money at this point and not yours, and Sony is making a much better value proposition out of the PS4 than Microsoft's proprietary branded gaming PC.).

 

Value and ease of use, you mean like all those forced fucking updates that have ended up bricking some consoles? Filled hard drives? People running into resolution issues when switching between older and newer tv sets? Yeah this isn't 1999: It's been a while since the "easy of use" line of defense for consoles is bullshit, they're just as much of a pain in the ass and actually worst, take it from someone who actually had to listen to constant issues for 8 hours at day they're far from convenient and just plug and play.

[ivhyn]

Value and ease of use, you mean like all those forced fucking updates that have ended up bricking some consoles? Filled hard drives? People running into resolution issues when switching between older and newer tv sets? Yeah this isn't 1999: It's been a while since the "easy of use" line of defense for consoles is bullshit, they're just as much of a pain in the ass and actually worst, take it from someone who actually had to listen to constant issues for 8 hours at day they're far from convenient and just plug and play.

Jesus Christ.

What's so different about PC gaming then? You can brick your MB bios and GPU bios too, and those Windows updates broke my PC several times. Instead of tweaking around with settings I can jump straight into my games and they will play whatsoever, I've had way too many problems with f'ed up games on PC that weren't either properly optimized or just shit in terms of programming. I love PC gaming but man but I'd love it even more if it wasn't as problematic from time to time.

Stop bashing consoles, it doesn't make you look cool, more like a fanboy who's living under a rock and can't accept anything that's against his conception of how things have to be.

 

Also: It's not the console producer's fault if there's no backwards compatibility as different hardware architectures come and go over time. X86 wasn't the console standard up to a year ago, everything used its own micro-architecture which makes BC pretty darn difficult.

Sony atleast tried to offer a service (60GB PS3) and now that poorly performing PS Now Service to let users play older games (there's really no way to determine if someone has the game already as games don't get bound to an account).

[Misanthrope]

Jesus Christ.

What's so different about PC gaming then?

 

Read the previous posts if you really want to find out, I'm not about to enter circular logic specially when I didn't claim PC gaming was plug and play just because I said console gaming isn't plug and play anymore either.

[ivhyn]

Read the previous posts if you really want to find out, I'm not about to enter circular logic specially when I didn't claim PC gaming was plug and play just because I said console gaming isn't plug and play anymore either.

You said

they're just as much of a pain in the ass and actually worst (just as much of a pain in the ass obviously referring to PC gaming)

and I said that it's easier to brick your PC which counteracts your statement that consoles are a worse pain in the butt.

It may not be ease of use anymore but it certainly is "easier to use".

 

However, write what you want, I'm so tired of fanboy arguments for or against a certain platform.

[Guest]

Might as well just add widescreen bars and make the game only run in 21:9....

[ivhyn]

Might as well just add widescreen bars and make the game only run in 21:9....

That's what they did actually...

[Faa]

30 FPS is shit and here is why-

When I play battlefield 3 on the xbox 360 - I have to quit playing after 10 minutes because my eyes are starting to hurt. Game itself is fully blurry and the motion blur you have from a tv as well just makes console gaming always shit. Not sure if this happens to any 120Hz monitor, but its the case with my s27a750d that on 60Hz mode at 60 fps the motion blur is freaking annoying where as on 120Hz & 60 fps it isn't there at all. I do notice the difference between 60 & 120 fps in fast responsive games especially FPS games but the difference in a slow game it's hard to tell except when you move the camera like in a mmo.

About "less fps better quality" Yeah right. If you try this out http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/ at 5 or 30 fps fps you barely see a shit of the ball

[Misanthrope]

You said

and I said that it's easier to brick your PC which counteracts your statement that consoles are a worse pain in the butt.

It may not be ease of use anymore but it certainly is "easier to use".

 

However, write what you want, I'm so tired of fanboy arguments for or against a certain platform.

 

1) I said IF

 

2) That still doesn't means one becomes easy to use. Easier doesn't necessarily means Easy.  

 

3) If you're not a PC gaming fanboy why are you doing on a PC centric community centered around a guy who routinely makes fun of consoles for shit's and giggles?

[Victorious Secret]

ITT: Butthurt. Butthurt everywhere. 

 

Jesus. 

 

Everything is just a number. Maybe stop trying to assign your self worth to how many numbers your rig can get? 

Whoopdefuckingdo, my rig can make Crysis its bitch at 4K. I can also make Jaguar supercomputers eat shit. Oh great. Fucking A. Amazing. What do I get? A medal? A cookie? A Nobel Peace Prize?

 

 

That is exactly what some of you sound like. 
 

[Misanthrope]

ITT: Butthurt. Butthurt everywhere. 

 

Jesus. 

 

Everything is just a number. Maybe stop trying to assign your self worth to how many numbers your rig can get? 

Whoopdefuckingdo, my rig can make Crysis its bitch at 4K. I can also make Jaguar supercomputers eat shit. Oh great. Fucking A. Amazing. What do I get? A medal? A cookie? A Nobel Peace Prize?

 

 

That is exactly what some of you sound like. 

 

 

If they didn't want the focus to be about graphics, they shouldn't have marketed it as next gen and doctored their E3 previews: Ubisoft has nobody but themselves to blame for the hype they created themselves and then failed to live up to so you can stop defending them: We all enjoy older games, indie games, etc. But if you're gonna show off the pretty graphics you better damn well deliver them. 

[Askew]

We still don't have a 3DS emulator, can you imagine that...

[xentric]

[WanderingFool]

So say some? We aren't blind. The game was downgraded. 

 

Do you really want to discuss cost? BF4 was 25 bucks multiple times this year already (just check cheapshark.com for deals for multiple digital distros). Tomb Raider is currently 7.99. NBA 2k 14 has been under 10. Watch Dog's many got for 28 (deluxe version) many 40. Titanfall was like 40. 

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BzDRzy

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BzDRzy

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BzDRzy/by_merchant/

Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BzDRzy/benchmarks/

 

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor  ($134.99 @ NCIX US) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.94 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 

Memory: Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($64.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($54.43 @ OutletPC) 

Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 280 3GB Double Dissipation Video Card  ($219.99 @ Newegg) 

Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($47.99 @ Micro Center) 

Power Supply: Corsair CX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($69.99 @ Micro Center) 

Total: $685.31

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-28 03:43 EDT-0400)

 

685 bucks with tax. Will max Watchdog's. CPU and GPU blow away a PS4. What is the PS4 with tax? 430? Now add in 50 bucks for PS live for just one year. We are at 480. Now go price those games for me on PS4. I will save you the time. They are all 60 bucks. That is 177 bucks saved on 5 games and that is if you missed the Watchdog's Origin India thing where it would have been more? So now we are at  657.

 

You paid around 30 bucks more for the PC at this point, after a few games. You will save hundreds of more dollars and even approach thousands and have a machine that is much more powerful with exclusives of your own like Star Citizen, Wild Star, Diablo expansion that isn't out on PS4 yet, a better version of Planetside 2, Titanfall (can't have that on Playstation), Dark Souls 2 which that GPU can downsample to look ridiculously good with Gedosato.      

 

Pc gaming is cheaper. Please never talk about cost as a plus for consoles. You pay more, get way less and only idiots believe the opposite is true. You could switch the parts for a $129.00 MSI z97 SLI board and a I5 K and a R9 290 and pay less in a year. Then add another after you save tons of money and game at 4k. 

 

Console gaming is expensive not cheap. Oh and btw the AMD GPU comes with 3 free games.

 

The concept of a console isn't necessarily just the cost though.  It is about convenience, form factor and to an extent the cost (well for some....I personally only get it for 4 player games...go Wii U).

 

Anyways, just a few notes to your cost analysis.  It is unfair to include only the parts, there are a vast majority of people who have no clue how to purchase PC parts and assemble a PC (of my friends, I am the only one who can do it).  So in the PC price, you need to either include a prefab gaming machine, or pricing for assembly.  Another issue is you failed to include the operating system ($100 to your parts price, and yes the majority of the people you are talking about would be using Windows).

 

While it wouldn't matter to some people, for some the blu-ray option is actually important as well.  (Which is roughly $40, for a standalone player...or more if you want your PC to play blu-rays).  For some netflix/drm stuff is not good enough....the other issue is the controllers...I am a sucker for games designed for controllers (minus fps, keyboard and mouse there...but I don't really play any fps anymore).  But that means having to add in controller prices.

 

Just to discuss the game pricing a bit, I have only once paid full price for a console game.  The rest I purchase used (or in some cases the bargain bin), which works out to $10-$30 for games (for myself at least).

 

Anyways, I won't bother arguing too much about the pricing though, it all depends on each personal habits (I know for myself, it would likely be cheaper going the Playstation 4 route *I don't care about online*).  I think the bigger discussion point is convenience....especially with the new consoles, you could sit down infront of a TV and start playing a game within a few seconds (Assuming you were playing that game last)...add in the fact the formfactor of the console is quite small compared to PC towers, I can see the appeal of a consoles.

 

 

This last bit is not directed at you jester, but just a general view from reading through all these threads recently.

I find it funny how on things like watchdogs it is the consoles holding the game back when you look at the fps/stutters/textures and then when the PC version appears just as bad it is suddenly the developer laziness for not optimizing for the PC.

 

 

I get that not many people see my point of view on this, but I do feel that consoles to bring a new standard for games because you get people like my friends who purchase the consoles because the consoles are truly better than their current "gaming" rigs.  Yes they could save up money and purchase something that will last longer, but lets face it not many people do because they prefer to spend as little as possible initially.  So my argument is even though consoles bring up the rear, imagine the state we could be in if the consoles didn't exist, and the developers had to develop for those majority of old console gamers who don't have adequate rigs.

[Imaginaerum]

We still don't have a 3DS emulator, can you imagine that...

Nintendo did a good job locking that up this time around