AMD releases custom SOC for China market

[PineyCreek]

Original articles: https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-vega-semi-custom-soc-powers-gaming-consoles/

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-built-a-powerful-semi-custom-ryzen-vega-soc-for-game-consoles-and-pcs/

 

AMD's announcement: https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2018/08/03/new-amd-semi-custom-soc-combines-the-power-of-amd-ryzen-cpu-and-amd-vega-gpu-for-gamers-in-china

 

AMD has released a new custom SOC (system on a chip) for the China market primarily aimed at home consoles.  While current APUs on the general market (2200G, 2400G, PRO 2400GE) have Vega 8, 11, and 11 respectively, this new SOC comes with Vega 24.  This new SOC was recently revealed at the China Joy event.

 

Specs:

Base frequency: 3.0 GHz, quad-core, 8 thread

24 Vega CUs with up to 8 GB GDDR5 attached, GDDR5 memory controller on-chip

L2 Cache: 2 MB

L3 Cache: 8 MB

4 TFLOPS at max clock

 

" Currently, AMD is working with Zhongshan Subor to create a new gaming console for the Chinese market which was displayed at ChinaJoy 2018. They will first introduce a gaming PC with the SOC in late August, followed by the gaming console release in late 2018. Pricing of the PC is expected at 4998 Chinese Yuan which equals around $600-$700 US. "

 

My personal speculation is that this is a good trial run for what we'll possibly see in the next generation of Microsoft and Sony console, at least as a launch platform.  AMD's recent forays can only mean good things for the company in terms of its bottom line.

 

Content Edit 1:  If we're comparing Vega cores, the 2400G's 11 CUs are clocked at 1.25GHz while the SOC's 24 CUs are clocked at 1.3GHz according to the article.

 

Content Edit 2: Added link to AMD's official blog post concerning the SOC.

 

Content Edit 3: Clarification of memory controller.

[PineyCreek]

1 minute ago, huilun02 said:

So AMD pretty much dominates the living room console market globally

 

Tough for Intel/Nvidia to compete because neither of them have established CPU+GPU sides of business. Not to mention console manufacturers want to buy at as low cost as possible so that their final product is more easily obtainable. Intel/Nvidia not exactly known for selling cheap. The profit will have to be through sheer volume.

Well, Intel did collaborate with AMD on that new NUC with the Vega GPU component, and that performed pretty well relative to past offerings.  Maybe nVidia's mobile parts for notebooks would work?  I dunno.  Their license fees I think make them second choice for integration...but that's speculation on my part.

[DaRk0]

5 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

So AMD pretty much dominates the living room console market globally

 

Tough for Intel/Nvidia to compete because neither of them have established CPU+GPU sides of business. Not to mention console manufacturers want to buy at as low cost as possible so that their final product is more easily obtainable. Intel/Nvidia not exactly known for selling cheap. The profit will have to be through sheer volume.

Nvidia and Intel generate majority of their revenue in enterprise. Doesn't seem like they are interested in consoles for the moment.

[Humbug]

18 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

So AMD pretty much dominates the living room console market globally

And imagine... they were able to dominate the console market using bulldozer core CPU tech LOL.

 

So you can imagine how this battle goes down now that they have Zen core CPU tech... They have good performance now and Zen CPUs are cheap to manufacture.

[Nicnac]

Very cool product! Does anyone know which vega unit they use? is it comparable to the laptop ones?

might be interested in one of these as it would make for a perfect lan machine for older games (AoE 2, CoH, CS:GO etc.)

[Granular]

I wonder why AMD hasn't made beefier APUs for the general consumer.

I guess they'd be memory starved with DDR4 and you can't make a package with HBM socketable (or rather you can, but it would take a socket just for those APUs). That and console makers probably stipulate that AMD can't sell the designs they've commissioned to anyone else.

[PineyCreek]

10 minutes ago, Nicnac said:

Very cool product! Does anyone know which vega unit they use? is it comparable to the laptop ones?

might be interested in one of these as it would make for a perfect lan machine for older games (AoE 2, CoH, CS:GO etc.)

Only Ryzen desktop APUs I'm aware of have 8 or 11 CUs.  The max mobile Ryzen they have is the 2700U which is 10 CUs.  This part has 24 Vega CUs. 

[Dabombinable]

26 minutes ago, Humbug said:

And imagine... they were able to dominate the console market using bulldozer core CPU tech LOL.

 

So you can imagine how this battle goes down now that they have Zen core CPU tech... They have good performance now and Zen CPUs are cheap to manufacture.

The main thing with Jaguar was that it was cheap AF for Sony and Microsoft, since the PS4 and Xbone were meant to turn a profit on their own. Unlike their previous consoles. So this generation is kind of shit as a result. PS2 had more games running at 60fps.

Just now, PineyCreek said:

Only Ryzen desktop APUs I'm aware of have 8 or 11 CUs.  The max mobile Ryzen they have is the 2700U which is 10 CUs.  This part has 24 Vega CUs. 

Though probably at a lower clock speed.

[Nicnac]

2 minutes ago, PineyCreek said:

Only Ryzen desktop APUs I'm aware of have 8 or 11 CUs.  The max mobile Ryzen they have is the 2700U which is 10 CUs.  This part has 24 Vega CUs. 

Thats more than twice the CUs of the 2400G then right? I think that one has 11 and it's the best Desktop APU they had to far. That's actually pretty awesome 

[PineyCreek]

9 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Though probably at a lower clock speed.

1.3GHz is what the article says about the 24 Vega cores on the SOC.  AMD's specs on the 2400G show the 11 Vega cores at 1250MHz.

[leadeater]

29 minutes ago, Nicnac said:

Very cool product! Does anyone know which vega unit they use? is it comparable to the laptop ones?

might be interested in one of these as it would make for a perfect lan machine for older games (AoE 2, CoH, CS:GO etc.)

With a Vega 24 in it it'll probably do a fair decent job at slightly more demanding titles too, not that CoH games are that low though.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, PineyCreek said:

24 Vega CUs with up to 8 GB GDDR5 attached

Oh wow, now that changes things a lot. Actual GDDR5 memory for the GPU.

[cesrai]

 

Hades Canyon NUC—it has the same number of Vega CUs, but is clocked slightly faster and has 8GB of GDDR5 memory instead of 4GB of HBM2.

 

So the performance of this chip should be similar to the Hades Canyon NUC, pretty exciting if the console is cheap. 

[PineyCreek]

5 minutes ago, cesrai said:

 

 

 

So the performance of this chip should be similar to the Hades Canyon NUC, pretty exciting if the console is cheap. 

Yeah, the article says that it won't be on launch...they're guesstimating around $700 USD, but that's the entire console cost, not just the SOC.  Probably not going the MS or Sony route where they sell consoles on low or no margin to pull people in for the high margins on games (razor principle, aka inkjet tactic).

 

From the wccftech article:

"Currently, AMD is working with Zhongshan Subor to create a new gaming console for the Chinese market which was displayed at ChinaJoy 2018. They will first introduce a gaming PC with the SOC in late August, followed by the gaming console release in late 2018. Pricing of the PC is expected at 4998 Chinese Yuan which equals around $600-$700 US."

[cesrai]

2 minutes ago, PineyCreek said:

Yeah, the article says that it won't be on launch...they're guesstimating around $700 USD, but that's the entire console cost, not just the SOC.

Honestly I think WCCF pulled that number out of their arse, neither Annandtech nor PCgamer mention an estimation of the price.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, DaRk0 said:

Nvidia and Intel generate majority of their revenue in enterprise. Doesn't seem like they are interested in consoles for the moment.

Enterprise is really high margin, but over 50% of Nvidia's revenue is still the consumer GPU market.

[PineyCreek]

4 minutes ago, cesrai said:

Honestly I think WCCF pulled that number out of their arse, neither Annandtech nor PCgamer mention an estimation of the price.

That is entirely possible.  Wccf in my opinion is the less reliable of the two articles I looked at.  Then again, since it's hard for reviewers to get their hands on it and it isn't released, most of the pricing is speculation anyway.  The other stats were given by AMD at the event it appears, so they're likely legit.

[samcool55]

2 hours ago, Granular said:

I wonder why AMD hasn't made beefier APUs for the general consumer.

I guess they'd be memory starved with DDR4 and you can't make a package with HBM socketable (or rather you can, but it would take a socket just for those APUs). That and console makers probably stipulate that AMD can't sell the designs they've commissioned to anyone else.

Memory starvation is indeed a big problem.

These scores explain the problem very well (and the explaination of course too)

In firestrike GPU the most extreme jump can be from 3430 to 4840 and the 3430 was done with 2400Mhz, with 2133 and crappy timings it might even be a bigger gap.

So as you said, unless they can somehow add HBM to it or dedicated VRAM, it's pointless getting an apu with more vega CU's.

[Trixanity]

3 hours ago, Humbug said:

And imagine... they were able to dominate the console market using bulldozer core CPU tech LOL.

 

So you can imagine how this battle goes down now that they have Zen core CPU tech... They have good performance now and Zen CPUs are cheap to manufacture.

The consoles never used Bulldozer or any other derivative of the Construction family. It was their low power Cat family; namely Jaguar. Jaguar was a completely different beast. It wasn't powerful though so Zen is a massive upgrade. That much is true.

[AlTech]

3 hours ago, Humbug said:

And imagine... they were able to dominate the console market using bulldozer core CPU tech LOL.

 

Actually, no.

 

Current consoles are using Jaguar which is not a derivative of Bulldozer but they're incredibly small and low power and performance is equivalent to Atom CPU cores.

[Stefan Payne]

10 hours ago, PineyCreek said:

My personal speculation is that this is a good trial run for what we'll possibly see in the next generation of Microsoft and Sony console, at least as a launch platform.  AMD's recent forays can only mean good things for the company in terms of its bottom line.

No, because those will have 8 Cores and 40+ Shaderunits and with Sony it is speculated that they might get Navi.

 

While the "VEGA" GPU inside the Ryzen APUs is technically a Polaris based one...

 

Actually, no.

 

Current consoles are using Jaguar which is not a derivative of Bulldozer but they're incredibly small and low power and performance is equivalent to Atom CPU cores.

That's why he said IMAGINE....

[Jito463]

8 hours ago, Humbug said:

And imagine... they were able to dominate the console market using bulldozer core CPU tech LOL.

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Actually, no.

 

Current consoles are using Jaguar which is not a derivative of Bulldozer but they're incredibly small and low power and performance is equivalent to Atom CPU cores.

Regardless of which is accurate, while I'm glad for AMD getting so much market share due to the console market, I wish it hadn't come at the expense of PC gaming.  Most developers are lazy, and so they code for the lowest common denominator; which means they make it lower spec for the console and don't properly leverage the extra power of the PC platform.

 

Hopefully that will change now that they're using Zen cores for the next generation.

[Stefan Payne]

8 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Not to mention console manufacturers want to buy at as low cost as possible so that their final product is more easily obtainable. Intel/Nvidia not exactly known for selling cheap. The profit will have to be through sheer volume.

Yes and both console makers got burned by either nVidia or Intel with the last generation or the one before that. Because of high prices and inflexibility of both...

 

Did the Original XBox ever get a shrink??

Playstation 2 was reworked a couple of times with a Single Chip in the last iteration IIRC...

8 hours ago, PineyCreek said:

Well, Intel did collaborate with AMD on that new NUC with the Vega GPU component, and that performed pretty well relative to past offerings. 

1. Intel Just ordered a Chip from AMD

2. That isn't VEGA; its Polaris with HBM

3. They removed every mention of AMD or RTG in the Driver...

 

8 hours ago, PineyCreek said:

Maybe nVidia's mobile parts for notebooks would work?  I dunno.  Their license fees I think make them second choice for integration...but that's speculation on my part.

Maybe not because nVidia doesn't do that?

Maybe AMD is the better choice because you can work better with them and they do what you want, while nVidia does not?!

 

Have you forgotten that the Playstation 3 came with an nVidia GPU??

And have you forgotten that the XBox360 came with an AMD (ATI) GPU??

 

And have you forgotten that the XBox360 was a single Chip solution with the first Slim version??

While Sony had to stay with two chip solutions, although the Memory was integrated to the Package.

THAT was a major disadvantage at the time and made Sony loose money even with the reworked, shrinked Slim Version because M$ could sell it cheaper...

8 hours ago, Humbug said:

And imagine... they were able to dominate the console market using bulldozer core CPU tech LOL.

 

So you can imagine how this battle goes down now that they have Zen core CPU tech... They have good performance now and Zen CPUs are cheap to manufacture.

Sadly Bulldozer was not available at the time and too late to be implemented in Consoles...

7 hours ago, Granular said:

I wonder why AMD hasn't made beefier APUs for the general consumer.

Because nobody really wants it and the people bying it are the usual AMD Fans or the ones who don't care about the manufacturer of the CPU, the normal Populus wouldn't buy it because they got indoctrinated by their friends to only buy Intel and that their house will explode when they buy AMD...

 

7 hours ago, Granular said:

I guess they'd be memory starved with DDR4 and you can't make a package with HBM socketable (or rather you can, but it would take a socket just for those APUs). That and console makers probably stipulate that AMD can't sell the designs they've commissioned to anyone else.

HBM would be possible, there is more than enough space on the package Though they'd need a new for mobile.

For Desktop, I don't really see a problem.

Look at this:

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/AMD-Zen-Architektur-261795/News/Erste-Bilder-einer-gekoepften-CPU-aus-Suedkorea-1214611/

 

There is enough space for HBM, they just need to rearrange the Die to the side and maybe rework the lid a bit (cut out for the Die)...

And here the Raven Ridge APU:

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Ryzen-5-2400G-CPU-267145/News/AMD-Raven-Ridge-gekoepft-Temperatur-1250179/

 

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

Oh wow, now that changes things a lot. Actual GDDR5 memory for the GPU.

Yeah and not the first time that AMD Did that, though the first time that its actually used, except for the PS4 APU of course. That was the first CPU with GDDR5 Memory.

But its said that Kaveri also had a GDDR5 interface, though it was never used and it was only available for BGA Package soldered to the Motherboard...

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Current consoles are using Jaguar which is not a derivative of Bulldozer but they're incredibly small and low power and performance is equivalent to Atom CPU cores.

1. Because Bulldozer was not available at the time and thus not an option, obviously

2. Sony couldn't wait another year or so for it to be available

3. Jaguar is much faster than every Atom that was available at the time because Atom was In order, Jaguar is out of order. Atom was in order at the time.

 

Here more Infos about Jaguar vs. Bobcat:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/6976/amds-jaguar-architecture-the-cpu-powering-xbox-one-playstation-4-kabini-temash/2

 

And one could argue that Jaguar is the predecessor to Zen...

And no, there aren't (m)any usable performance analysis articles about bobcat because nobody did it at the same clockspeed and single Channel Memory...

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yeah and not the first time that AMD Did that, though the first time that its actually used, except for the PS4 APU of course. That was the first CPU with GDDR5 Memory.

But its said that Kaveri also had a GDDR5 interface, though it was never used and it was only available for BGA Package soldered to the Motherboard...

Realistically any CPU can have a memory controller that would work with GDDR but you would never want to unless it was for a specific purpose, like a console for gaming only. GDDR is much higher latency so is a poor choice for a system running multiple programs, not a problem for consoles.

 

Interesting fact though, ATI developed the GDDR3 spec and was then formalized by JEDEC, sufficient wrangling at the time could have gotten them royalty payments from Nvidia but in typical ATI fashion they handed it over to JEDEC for anyone to use freely.

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

While the "VEGA" GPU inside the Ryzen APUs is technically a Polaris based one...

Source? I've only seen confirmation that Vega M is a Polaris derivative.