Online retailers will now have to collect sales tax in the US

[Donut417]

12 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

If it's hurting the poor, then you have a problem with your social welfare system. Other, better ways of helping the poor (instead of eliminating sales tax):

1. Lower or eliminate income tax for those under the poverty line

2. Introduce income supplements

3. Government subsidized housing

4. Inject investment into the economy to help promote job growth

etc

 

Not going to happen in our current political environment. Plus we cant afford it. Well we could afford it if we didnt spend $750 billion on defense. But thats a discussion for another time. 

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Not going to happen in our current political environment. Plus we cant afford it. Well we could afford it if we didnt spend $750 billion on defense. But thats a discussion for another time. 

Indeed, but if you can't afford that, you definitely can't afford to remove all sales tax.

 

Some States can get away with it, but they usually have some other source of income to make up for it (eg: royalties for resources such as oil).

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Indeed, but if you can't afford that, you definitely can't afford to remove all sales tax.

 

Some States can get away with it, but they usually have some other source of income to make up for it (eg: royalties for resources such as oil).

https://taxfoundation.org/state-and-local-sales-tax-rates-2018/

 

Here are the sales taxes by state. Only two states dont charge tax on goods. The rest do, because thats the only way besides income tax they really can get any revenue. Also need to remember that some cities in the US charge sales tax as well, because property taxes are not always enough. 

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

https://taxfoundation.org/state-and-local-sales-tax-rates-2018/

 

Here are the sales taxes by state. Only two states dont charge tax on goods. The rest do, because thats the only way besides income tax they really can get any revenue. Also need to remember that some cities in the US charge sales tax as well, because property taxes are not always enough. 

Yes, indeed - this is extremely normal.

 

Though I don't believe any city in Canada charges sales tax. I'm not even sure if that's legal here (though I don't know of any specific law that would prevent it, off the top of my head).

 

Only Alberta doesn't charge provincial sales tax - and that's due to their long standing history with Oil Revenue.

 

The Territories - Yukon, Northwest Territories, and Nunavut - also do not charge sales tax, but their governments are typically heavily subsidized by the Feds, since it's extremely expensive to live that far up north, and job prospects are not fantastic.

[SteveGrabowski0]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Not going to happen in our current political environment. Plus we cant afford it. Well we could afford it if we didnt spend $750 billion on national offense. But thats a discussion for another time. 

FIFY

[Beowulff83]

6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

1. Lower or eliminate income tax for those under the poverty line

2. Introduce income supplements

3. Government subsidized housing

4. Inject investment into the economy to help promote job growth

etc

This is already being done.  It is also causing a bunch of division among the people.  There is a nice fat safety net at the bottom the trouble is once you make just enough to get off of assistance you live in this strange world where the people who are "poorer" than you live, a better lifestyle than you.  So now at this point you make just enough to have no assistance and every dollar you are taxed you feel.

 

I hate taxes.  I understand the necessity of  SOME taxes but we have way to many as it is.  As a tax hater i take a different look at what i consider a fair tax system.  I actually would prefer a fixed rate consumption based tax as long as all other taxes were gone.  I also don't agree with being re-taxed on items like vehicle resales.     

 

It is also amusing to think . . . or maybe not,  the the Colonist started a revolution partially-mostly due to taxation without representation and were upset at the tax rates that kept going up.  However the total of what the average american colonist was taxed is only a pin drop compared to what and how we are taxed now.  But as long as we have shinny flashy things in front of us we mostly don't care.  Kind of interesting how consumer electronics comparative to our wage is the cheapest it has ever been.

    

[dalekphalm]

5 minutes ago, Beowulff83 said:

This is already being done.  It is also causing a bunch of division among the people.  There is a nice fat safety net at the bottom the trouble is once you make just enough to get off of assistance you live in this strange world where the people who are "poorer" than you live, a better lifestyle than you.  So now at this point you make just enough to have no assistance and every dollar you are taxed you feel.

 

I hate taxes.  I understand the necessity of  SOME taxes but we have way to many as it is.  As a tax hater i take a different look at what i consider a fair tax system.  I actually would prefer a fixed rate consumption based tax as long as all other taxes were gone.  I also don't agree with being re-taxed on items like vehicle resales.     

 

It is also amusing to think . . . or maybe not,  the the Colonist started a revolution partially-mostly due to taxation without representation and were upset at the tax rates that kept going up.  However the total of what the average american colonist was taxed is only a pin drop compared to what and how we are taxed now.  But as long as we have shinny flashy things in front of us we mostly don't care.  Kind of interesting how consumer electronics comparative to our wage is the cheapest it has ever been.

    

You cannot compare sales tax to taxation without representation. Taxation without representation was not about how much the taxes were, it was about having no say in Government, or how decisions to spend that money were made, without input.

You do not have this with the United States in 2018, since each citizen votes on a legislative member (Senate and Congress, State representative, City Council/Mayor, etc), they have that representation that was such an issue with the British Colonies.

 

The fact that taxes have gone up since 17th century levels is not inherently an indicator of immoral taxation paradigms.

 

You might disagree with some ways that the US Government spends taxes, but you get multiple levels of democratic elections in which to vote in someone which shares the same taxation principles as yourself. The residents of British North America did not have that benefit.

[TroubleKlef]

More taxes? This gives an uncompetitive edge to those who actually have operations within the state than those who simply ship to.

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, TroubleKlef said:

More taxes? This gives an uncompetitive edge to those who actually have operations within the state than those who simply ship to.

One could argue that an out of state company not having to collect taxes has long since given that company an uncompetitive edge.

 

This is actually leveling the playing field. Companies that operate in-state also have the additional overhead of staffing and paying for the buildings, utilities, management, etc.

 

Plus there's nothing stopping an online company from moving into a state to establish a physical presence.

[maartendc]

On 6/21/2018 at 12:37 PM, dalekphalm said:

I'm 100% in favour of doing this. I support South Dakota's efforts to force online retailers to collect tax owed.

 

Why? Because you still had to pay that tax anyway. You just had to pay it during tax season, when you did your taxes.

 

Anyone who didn't pay those taxes manually during tax season was breaking the law - intentionally or unintentionally. It would be actual tax fraud if you intentionally shopped at an online retailer you knew didn't collect sales tax, so that you could "save some money".

 

I get it - I like to save money too. But don't break the law to do so. Buy used, or find other methods of being frugal, if you need that extra money that would otherwise go to tax.

I bet you 95% of people did not know they still legally had to pay that sales tax. Unless you are an accountant, or your personal income tax accountant would have alerted you to it?

 

And yes, a lot of people shopped at certain online retailers like Newegg and B&H photo because they did not charge sales tax outside of their own states. I think it is a bummer they will now charge sales tax.

 

By the way: I imagine it will take some time for retailers to take notice. As of right now, B&H still does not charge sales tax.

[dalekphalm]

9 minutes ago, maartendc said:

I bet you 95% of people did not know they still legally had to pay that sales tax. Unless you are an accountant, or your personal income tax accountant would have alerted you to it?

 

And yes, a lot of people shopped at certain online retailers like Newegg and B&H photo because they did not charge sales tax outside of their own states. I think it is a bummer they will now charge sales tax.

 

By the way: I imagine it will take some time for retailers to take notice. As of right now, B&H still does not charge sales tax.

I have no doubt that many people were/are unaware of their own tax laws. It's a pretty common subject for people to be ignorant about. Hell, a lot of people don't even know how taxes work in a general sense, or have no idea how their income tax works (or a graduated tax bracket system).

 

Does any of that actually matter? No. This is a good thing because it helps people not break the law by paying their taxes in an easy to pay method, instead of hoping they'll follow the law and pay sales tax when doing their income tax.

[Beowulff83]

19 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

You cannot compare sales tax to taxation without representation. Taxation without representation was not about how much the taxes were, it was about having no say in Government, or how decisions to spend that money were made, without input.

Under this logic you are saying if the colonist had representation, their representatives would have voted for the tax and raised existing taxes on them??  Oh i don't think so.  The colonist were #1 pissed about the taxes they had to pay and the taxes being raised and #2 that they had no voice against this in Parliament

 

19 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

You do not have this with the United States in 2018, since each citizen votes on a legislative member (Senate and Congress, State representative, City Council/Mayor, etc), they have that representation that was such an issue with the British Colonies.

 

19 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

You might disagree with some ways that the US Government spends taxes, but you get multiple levels of democratic elections in which to vote in someone which shares the same taxation principles as yourself. The residents of British North America did not have that benefit.

 

On its face that is how it looks,  In reality its not even close.  It has become a pay to play system where the jr. representatives become telemarketers to pay off their party dues.  If they decide not to do this they get black balled.  The places where the funds come from now has sway over our representatives and all the promises made to you are put on the back burner.  Usually they throw their promises into a dead bill just so they can tell you I did what i could.

 

 

19 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

The fact that taxes have gone up since 17th century levels is not inherently an indicator of immoral taxation paradigms.

I disagree at its base taxes are inherently immoral.  Theft at gunpoint. If i don't pay, men with guns come and take it from me by force. 

 

LoL,  I'm sure i will be told to move or go run for office myself.  Like this would actually solve anything.

 

The numbers here always make me feel warm and fuzzy.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[OnionRings]

Didn't amazon always charge taxes? Newegg I believe was the one that didn't.

[Razor Blade]

5 minutes ago, OnionRings said:

Didn't amazon always charge taxes? Newegg I believe was the one that didn't.

Nope. It's only been a thing for a little over a year.

 

EDIT: Amazon may have collected sales tax with certain states before that, however April 2017 is when Amazon started charging sales tax for every state.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Razor Blade

[79wjd]

59 minutes ago, Beowulff83 said:

Under this logic you are saying if the colonist had representation, their representatives would have voted for the tax and raised existing taxes on them??  Oh i don't think so.  The colonist were #1 pissed about the taxes they had to pay and the taxes being raised and #2 that they had no voice against this in Parliament

Yes. 

 

The reason for the revolution was the fact that colonists had no say in any regulations that were applied to them and that they were basically slaves to every whim of the British parliament; they were tired of working for them and wanted to reap the benefits themselves. 

 

You should really look into early American taxes before spewing nonsense. 

Quote

I disagree at its base taxes are inherently immoral.  Theft at gunpoint. If i don't pay, men with guns come and take it from me by force. 

 

LoL,  I'm sure i will be told to move or go run for office myself.  Like this would actually solve anything.

Go live on an uncontrolled island all alone. Taxes are absolutely not immoral nor are they even remotely close to anything related to theft. They pay for roads, schools, police, fire departments, etc... You may not like paying taxes, and they may be spent frivolously, but that doesn't change the fact that you absolutely benefit from taxes and almost certainly would hate a world where taxes weren't a thing. 

Quote

The numbers here always make me feel warm and fuzzy.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

It's always a good idea to have a basic understanding of things before bitching about them 

 

 

[dalekphalm]

37 minutes ago, Beowulff83 said:

Under this logic you are saying if the colonist had representation, their representatives would have voted for the tax and raised existing taxes on them??  Oh i don't think so.  The colonist were #1 pissed about the taxes they had to pay and the taxes being raised and #2 that they had no voice against this in Parliament

Quite the contrary, if they had representation, they could have chosen whether they wanted higher taxation or not, and what said taxation would have been used towards.

 

They were not given the choice, which was the crux of the issue.

 

37 minutes ago, Beowulff83 said:

On its face that is how it looks,  In reality its not even close.  It has become a pay to play system where the jr. representatives become telemarketers to pay off their party dues.  If they decide not to do this they get black balled.  The places where the funds come from now has sway over our representatives and all the promises made to you are put on the back burner.  Usually they throw their promises into a dead bill just so they can tell you I did what i could.

So what you are saying is that the United States is fundamentally flawed and is irreparably broken.

 

You've already given up on making any kind of change.

 

37 minutes ago, Beowulff83 said:

I disagree at its base taxes are inherently immoral.  Theft at gunpoint. If i don't pay, men with guns come and take it from me by force. 

If you fundamentally believe that taxation is inherently immoral, then we have nothing further to discuss. Taxation is a fundamental requirement of a modern society, with all of the things you no doubt take for granted, like roads, hospitals, teachers, libraries, police, etc.

 

If you don't want taxation, you should live off the land, or move to somewhere where you can practice anarchy.

37 minutes ago, Beowulff83 said:

LoL,  I'm sure i will be told to move or go run for office myself.  Like this would actually solve anything.

You should run for office, if things aren't run the way you'd like.

 

Apathy is the reason why half the things are ran the way they are, because not enough people stand up against them, or vote against their policies, etc.

 

37 minutes ago, Beowulff83 said:

The numbers here always make me feel warm and fuzzy.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Taxation and a deficit are different things. They can be related, but different factors drive each one.

[Beowulff83]

33 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Yes. 

 

The reason for the revolution was the fact that colonists had no say in any regulations that were applied to them and that they were basically slaves to every whim of the British parliament; they were tired of working for them and wanted to reap the benefits themselves. 

 

You should really look into early American taxes before spewing nonsense.

You mean like how the British actually cut taxes in half and doubled down on their collection efforts thinking that cheaper taxes would get the colonists to stop evading the tax?  No they did not want to pay taxes to themselves to"reap the benefits".

 

40 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Go live on an uncontrolled island all alone. Taxes are absolutely not immoral nor are they even remotely close to anything related to theft. They pay for roads, schools, police, fire departments, etc... You may not like paying taxes, and they may be spent frivolously, but that doesn't change the fact that you absolutely benefit from taxes and almost certainly would hate a world where taxes weren't a thing. 

Quote

The numbers here always make me feel warm and fuzzy.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

It's always a good idea to have a basic understanding of things before bitching about them 

Looking at the center of the debt clock you can see the tax revenue. combine state and local.  We should have some awesome roads and infrastructure . . .

 

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

Nice dated video, maybe you should re-watch,  I find right around the 3:30 mark pretty interesting.

[Beowulff83]

57 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Quote

On its face that is how it looks,  In reality its not even close.  It has become a pay to play system where the jr. representatives become telemarketers to pay off their party dues.  If they decide not to do this they get black balled.  The places where the funds come from now has sway over our representatives and all the promises made to you are put on the back burner.  Usually they throw their promises into a dead bill just so they can tell you I did what i could.

So what you are saying is that the United States is fundamentally flawed and is irreparably broken.

 

You've already given up on making any kind of change.

Yes and you are jumping to conclusions.  I have not given up on anything.  I feel we have a hard road ahead.  I don't think we can accomplish much of anything in this divided toxic atmosphere. That doesn't mean anyone should be apathetic, It just means i don't expect much if any positive change to happen.

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

If you fundamentally believe that taxation is inherently immoral, then we have nothing further to discuss. Taxation is a fundamental requirement of a modern society, with all of the things you no doubt take for granted, like roads, hospitals, teachers, libraries, police, etc.

 

If you don't want taxation, you should live off the land, or move to somewhere where you can practice anarchy.

I stated earlier in this thread how i understand the necessity of Some taxes.  Circling back around to the topic at hand, I take issue with the excess of taxation and the misuse of the tax money.  I also stated earlier that I am actually in favor of a Base consumption tax as long as all other taxes would be removed, I feel it is the fairest way to tax.

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Quote

The numbers here always make me feel warm and fuzzy.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Taxation and a deficit are different things. They can be related, but different factors drive each one.

The Upper right portion of this shows tax revenue.  I thought it was good to showcase what is actually being stol. . .taxed from us.

[Kamjam21xx]

they just bumped the price of my new tormach cnc machine, computer, and camera equipment up a lot... i hate how much im taxed. low taxes and regulation is always better.

 

[79wjd]

19 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

they just bumped the price of my new tormach cnc machine, computer, and camera equipment up a lot... i hate how much im taxed. low taxes and regulation is always better.

 

Taxes didn't increase.

[Donut417]

19 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

they just bumped the price of my new tormach cnc machine, computer, and camera equipment up a lot... i hate how much im taxed. low taxes and regulation is always better.

 

First of all Michigan Sales tax has been 6% for like my entire 30 years of existence. So taxes didnt go up. 

[Pretzel4000]

That's why I live in New Hampshire. No sales tax, no income tax.

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Some states have had increases over the years, though.  In MD we got tax increases from 2007-2013.  Sales tax went from 5% to 6%, sales tax on alcohol went from 6% to 9%, tobacco tax was increased/not sure by how much, income tax went up for anyone in the state making 100,000 or more or couple making 150,000 or more, and motor fuel tax increased from 23.5 cents per gallon to 27 cents.  Plus, the motor fuel tax is allowed to increase annually to reflect the CPI.  But, those didn't go up because of this; however, my state is for this.

Yeah but the guy bitching about it is from my state. The only thing that went up is tobacco. For us non smokers thats great news becuase I hate smoking and having to deal with second hand smoke. So Im cool with taxing the hell out of the smokers. 

[Kamjam21xx]

On 6/26/2018 at 8:44 PM, Donut417 said:

First of all Michigan Sales tax has been 6% for like my entire 30 years of existence. So taxes didnt go up. 

yeah but being able to avoid taxes with online sales saves a lot of money. taxes have gone up.. just not sales tax. how about that 25 cents on gas? 

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

yeah but being able to avoid taxes with online sales saves a lot of money. taxes have gone up.. just not sales tax. how about that 25 cents on gas? 

Avoiding taxes is also a crime that you can be put in prison for. Is avoiding taxes worth the possibility of having to become some ones bitch. I think not. This is not about gas tax though. This is about online retailers having to play the same game as local brick and mortar stores. Its about fairness in business.