Xbox One X vs. PS4 Pro vs. $500 PC

[nicklmg]

1 hour ago, emosun said:

well I do argue with the methodology a little bit. not to be troll or anything.... I just feel it changes what the meaning of "i can build a pc faster than that for the same price" truly means.

when people say this , they are saying that "provided you have the knowledge" you can do so. Yes i get it. most people don't.

 

this happens with car guys typically as well. everyone knows that with 10,000$ you can easily build a junkyard 50's gasser that will put most cars double and triple it's price to shame. the reason for this is becuase of a car guys knowledge in what can be done both in building , tuning , and getting deals on parts. 

I see this as an opportunity to do a "full knowledge" 500$ build that can beat a console. I understand scrapyard wars is the series to see this type of method done , however , it's not put into the context of beating a console so that could make for an interesting video. to see what happens when you have the knowledge and experience to beat the console with this budget.

The end result is that either way we piss someone off - either we build with new parts and people say "you can get used deals that are so much better OMG you guys are so stupid" or we go with used pricing and people say "OMG I would never be able to get used deals like that in my area of the country this is such a misleading video you guys are dumb."

 

MSRP is a relatively objective standard to go by. We're confident in our approach.

 

EDIT: that's not to say that it would be impossible to do a follow-up comparing used hardware, just that that is why we take took the route we did.

[48Hz]

1 hour ago, emosun said:

well I do argue with the methodology a little bit. not to be troll or anything.... I just feel it changes what the meaning of "i can build a pc faster than that for the same price" truly means.

when people say this , they are saying that "provided you have the knowledge" you can do so. Yes i get it. most people don't.

 

this happens with car guys typically as well. everyone knows that with 10,000$ you can easily build a junkyard 50's gasser that will put most cars double and triple it's price to shame. the reason for this is becuase of a car guys knowledge in what can be done both in building , tuning , and getting deals on parts. 

I see this as an opportunity to do a "full knowledge" 500$ build that can beat a console. I understand scrapyard wars is the series to see this type of method done , however , it's not put into the context of beating a console so that could make for an interesting video. to see what happens when you have the knowledge and experience to beat the console with this budget.

12

Only if they keep it within micro ATX size and under 220W of total power draw, and include a 4k Bluray player.

[emosun]

1 minute ago, nicklmg said:

The end result is that either way we piss someone off

lol I dont' deny that is an issue.

 

you could make an unmonotized unlisted video of luke eating a bowl of cereal and someone would find something to complain about it.

[nicklmg]

2 minutes ago, 48Hz said:

Enjoy that CPU based stuttering.

 

I mean if you like average FPS I assume that's the route to go, but you aren't going to have a good experience with that weak of a CPU.

I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but the honest truth is that most people linking PCpartpicker lists in our comments on ANY video are solely going by spec sheets and second-hand knowledge (again, I say MOST, not all).

 

That's not to say that there's never feedback we could take from some of those people, but I think they often don't give our first-hand experience with hardware as much credit as they often should - it definitely seems like this is one of those times..

[emosun]

2 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

but I think they often don't give our first-hand experience with hardware as much credit as they often should

I feel you . it's the little things you learn from constantly actually building a real machine that no parts list ever tells you about. 

Like how much thermal paste to use. We all try to describe the amount , but in reality we've done it so many times that we just know how much to use based on the size of the surface area.

 

we know how it squishes

[AshleyAshes]

16 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but the honest truth is that most people linking PCpartpicker lists in our comments on ANY video are solely going by spec sheets and second-hand knowledge (again, I say MOST, not all).

 

That's not to say that there's never feedback we could take from some of those people, but I think they often don't give our first-hand experience with hardware as much credit as they often should - it definitely seems like this is one of those times..

I have a four year old i7 Extreme 4930k hex core with a GTX 1080 and I bet you I could find 50 'kids' who'd tell me that my CPU is too old and slow to play games and that I need an 8700k.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

I have a four year old i7 Extreme 4930k hex core with a GTX 1080 and I bet you I could find 50 'kids' who'd tell me that my CPU is too old and slow to play games and that I need an 8700k.

Nah. 8700K too weak. 7980XE bare minimum in 2k17.

[captain_to_fire]

Comments section on YouTube by salty PCMR extremists is just very toxic. ?

[Mradr]

I thought the video was a good showing, but I think some information might have been misleading to people that are complaining. For example, Xbox and Sony retail price for these units are 100$ more than they really retail at because they do take a hit to their over all income by licensing the hardware to software creators to offset some of the cost. Really if they didn't do that the overall cost of unit would've retailed another 100 to 200. 

 

To play fair - you could've compared it to 400 sony vs 500 xbox vs 600 computer. I know a lot of people would've complain so I understand why you didn't do that as well - but the people here are really taking the information wrong as well. Of course you could've went with used parts bla bla bla - but that isn't the point of what people will do when buying a computer. They will look at what is new and what will last longer. The people that do other wise are a small % of the people that are even out there of the people that build their own computers are a even smaller % out there that own a computer and or a console. Basicly people here trying to compare used parts are a 1% of 10% your value would have no real meaning in the long shot of things. You be wasting more time and money getting/trying to build it cheaper to prove yourself right than it would've just cost you to buy the console.

 

With that said - There are a few things I would've change with the build as well to net me that small hiccup of a differences that you saw between the consoles and the PC - but then again I'm a power user that runs like 5 VMS while I game in VR and do programming on  So I am not the best example of a normal user.

 

 

[GDRRiley]

I fixed your build issues.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($77.77 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: *ASRock - B250M-HDV Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($54.99 @ Newegg) 
Memory: *G.Skill - Aegis 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($69.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Hitachi - Ultrastar 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($39.88 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: *Zotac - GeForce GTX 1060 3GB 3GB Mini Video Card  ($189.99 @ Amazon) 
Case: Rosewill - SRM-01 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($29.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: EVGA - 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($31.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Total: $494.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-26 18:50 EST-0500

[Keystone Nyan Cat]

It really does blow my mind as to what an amazing value these consoles are; while also including goodies like a blu-ray player, and free games. I've recently built my own PC, but if I could go back in time- I'd probably wind up buying an XBox One X; not just for the sheer horsepower, but because of the exclusives like being able to play a remastered Halo, alongside the Ace Combat franchise. To put it into perspective- right now, the One X pulls in more power than a PC twice it's budget; there's simply no comparison in terms of which you should chose for gaming.

[Keystone Nyan Cat]

2 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

I fixed your build issues.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($77.77 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: *ASRock - B250M-HDV Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($54.99 @ Newegg) 
Memory: *G.Skill - Aegis 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($69.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Hitachi - Ultrastar 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($39.88 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: *Zotac - GeForce GTX 1060 3GB 3GB Mini Video Card  ($189.99 @ Amazon) 
Case: Rosewill - SRM-01 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($29.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: EVGA - 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($31.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Total: $494.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-26 18:50 EST-0500

What about a way to interface with the computer and an integrated blu-ray player? The One X delivers both of those for $500; I'm not trying to start a flame war; I own a gaming PC and will most likely not get a One X; but I think it's right to appreciate the merits of the One X/ actually agree that if someone intends to only play videogames and watch movies, it's a great value.

 

Edit- On another point against the PC; when creating that part list though; we also have to take into consideration part cycles. The One X will only get more powerful over time as developers are able to better optimize their games for the platform; with the PC however, the user will constantly have to be spending $100-200 each one-two years to upgrade their GPU to get games looking as good the One X.

[Mradr]

7 minutes ago, Keystone Nyan Cat said:

It really does blow my mind as to what an amazing value these consoles are; while also including goodies like a blu-ray player, and free games. I've recently built my own PC, but if I could go back in time- I'd probably wind up buying an XBox One X; not just for the sheer horsepower, but because of the exclusives like being able to play a remastered Halo, alongside the Ace Combat franchise. To put it into perspective- right now, the One X pulls in more power than a PC twice it's budget; there's simply no comparison in terms of which you should chose for gaming.

Mmmm... Not really. What you saw was what happens when games optimized for that hardware. The PC version would've been the same or better really, but there are some build differences that could've taken place to put it more on par. Plus remember, consoles are gaming only - so if you wanna do anything else on it - you are kind of stuck that you can not unless you pay more to own a computer or a phone in the process. Plus within in a yea that would not hold true as new video cards are about to come out from both RED and Green that will beat the current 500$ they used for testing.

 

Also a blue player for the pc is like what 50$ now? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Blu-Ray+Burners-_-N82E16827136250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjPz86dTd1wIVhrXACh0QBgLaEAQYASABEgLlUvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Godlygamer23]

6 hours ago, emosun said:

Yeah but again , the pc DOES EVERYTHING.

 

it runs/emulates pretty much any game and os from the last 40 years and any software. and almost any hardware can be adapted to work on the pc. it's like , not even a contest.

If you only have interest in gaming at 4K, the 500 dollar PC is a tough sell if the Xbox One X offers more compelling performance for the same amount of money, not to mention an included controller.

[dalekphalm]

10 minutes ago, Mradr said:

Mmmm... Not really. What you saw was what happens when games optimized for that hardware. The PC version would've been the same or better really, but there are some build differences that could've taken place to put it more on par. Plus remember, consoles are gaming only - so if you wanna do anything else on it - you are kind of stuck that you can not unless you pay more to own a computer or a phone in the process. Plus within in a yea that would not hold true as new video cards are about to come out from both RED and Green that will beat the current 500$ they used for testing.

 

Also a blue player for the pc is like what 50$ now? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Blu-Ray+Burners-_-N82E16827136250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjPz86dTd1wIVhrXACh0QBgLaEAQYASABEgLlUvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

You linked an older 1080p Blu-Ray player.

 

That's fine when making a comparison against the $100 cheaper PS4 Pro.

 

But the XBOX One X has a 4K UHD Blu-Ray player. You're looking at closer to $120 USD for a 4K drive:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129090&cm_re=4k_blu-ray_drive-_-27-129-090-_-Product

 

So now your $500 PC costs $600, and still lacks a legally obtained Windows license. Sure you can run it unlicensed, or a pirated copy, or a grey market key, but none of those are a proper fair comparison. You could run Linux, but then you lose a lot of game and application support.

[48Hz]

2 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

I fixed your build issues.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($77.77 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: *ASRock - B250M-HDV Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($54.99 @ Newegg) 
Memory: *G.Skill - Aegis 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($69.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Hitachi - Ultrastar 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($39.88 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: *Zotac - GeForce GTX 1060 3GB 3GB Mini Video Card  ($189.99 @ Amazon) 
Case: Rosewill - SRM-01 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($29.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: EVGA - 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($31.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Total: $494.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-26 18:50 EST-0500

Yeah, that 3GB 1060 is gonna handle 4k like a dream

 

Also, my issue with these ultra budget systems is that you sacrifice so much quality just to get the price that low. That PSU is not gonna handle anything more than that 1060, the motherboard is garbage in terms of upgradability, the CPU is just as garbage as the Jaguar in the One X. The whole point of PC building is to evolve it in the future, you can't do that when you start off with a lemming.

[Mradr]

5 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

But the XBOX One X has a 4K UHD Blu-Ray player. You're looking at closer to $120 USD for a 4K drive:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129090&cm_re=4k_blu-ray_drive-_-27-129-090-_-Product

 

So now your $500 PC costs $600, and still lacks a legally obtained Windows license. Sure you can run it unlicensed, or a pirated copy, or a grey market key, but none of those are a proper fair comparison. You could run Linux, but then you lose a lot of game and application support.

True, but 600$ is still within reason of what I said with the kick back per unit that have to sell at and the limits of what the console can do as a whole - lock down system. This is where you do have to get kind of creative - and buy a offhand cheap license key for the OS if you want to run windows. My understand though is Windows 10 might be coming to a PC near you for free with in the next year anyways as they will be offering Windows 10 Home Basic for free. So give or take that year I also said that the GPUs real cycle will be in - it does even out to be about the same cost per dollar. ??? hard to say really ??? It's a balancing act.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Mradr said:

True, but 600$ is still within reason of what I said with the kick back per unit that have to sell at and the limits of what the console can do as a whole - lock down system. This is where you do have to get kind of creative - and buy a offhand cheap license key for the OS if you want to run windows. My understand though is Windows 10 might be coming to a PC near you for free with in the next year anyways as they will be offering Windows 10 Home Basic for free. So give or take that year I also said that the GPUs real cycle will be in - it does even out to be about the same cost per dollar. ??? hard to say really ??? It's a balancing act.

Either way you string it, for $500, buying new hardware (since used hardware prices and availability of selection vary like crazy in different areas - even in the US), while matching all the main features and performance of the XBOX One X, is simply possible right now.

 

In a year? Sure maybe. But the XBOX One X will also have likely dropped in price by then too.

 

That's simply the point. Yes you can match or beat by buying used hardware. Or by spending more money. But those are both compromises. Some will be okay with those compromises, but an objective comparison starts by making the closest comparison you can, and working from there.

[GDRRiley]

18 minutes ago, 48Hz said:

Yeah, that 3GB 1060 is gonna handle 4k like a dream

 

Also, my issue with these ultra budget systems is that you sacrifice so much quality just to get the price that low. That PSU is not gonna handle anything more than that 1060, the motherboard is garbage in terms of upgradability, the CPU is just as garbage as the Jaguar in the One X. The whole point of PC building is to evolve it in the future, you can't do that when you start off with a lemming.

well for another 50$ you can get a better PSU and a 6gb 1060. That cpu is the best for the money and the mobo supports all 6&7th gen cpus so it does have a good upgrade path. 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/cm4QTH

[GDRRiley]

36 minutes ago, Keystone Nyan Cat said:

What about a way to interface with the computer and an integrated blu-ray player? The One X delivers both of those for $500; I'm not trying to start a flame war; I own a gaming PC and will most likely not get a One X; but I think it's right to appreciate the merits of the One X/ actually agree that if someone intends to only play videogames and watch movies, it's a great value.

 

Edit- On another point against the PC; when creating that part list though; we also have to take into consideration part cycles. The One X will only get more powerful over time as developers are able to better optimize their games for the platform; with the PC however, the user will constantly have to be spending $100-200 each one-two years to upgrade their GPU to get games looking as good the One X.

well do you want to be able to play on line? thats another 60$ and drivers do get better over time on PC, more so on AMD but does also happen on Nivida and you can overclock the gpu 

[SupremeChunk]

7 hours ago, emosun said:

Yeah but again , the pc DOES EVERYTHING.

 

it runs/emulates pretty much any game and os from the last 40 years and any software. and almost any hardware can be adapted to work on the pc. it's like , not even a contest.

But that's of little use to the person that already had their general use laptop, and just wants to spend as little money, time, and effort as possible on plopping a box under their TV to play the new FIFA with his buddy. Your average Joe you could say, but we'll call him "John".

John wants to play games, in his living room, with a controller.

John wants to spend as little money as possible, so he bought his console on sale.

John has no use for the additional features a powerful machine would provide, he's quite happy with with his MacBook.

John literally wants a box, that he can plug in, and play sports games, maybe the new COD or GTA when it comes out. 720p30 FPS looks good to him - and good is all he's after. He doesn't even know what an emulator is, nor would he care, he didn't grow up with games, so older ones are of no concern to him. Operating systems matter little to him as well, again, iOS and OSX suit his needs.

 

Gaming is barely even hobby-status for John. He enjoys games, plays an hour or two a night when he gets off work, but that's about the extent of it.

John is happy with his purchase, as he should be because...

There's no reason John should build a gaming PC in this scenario. We can't operate under the assumption that everyone, or even the average Joe (or John)'s needs are identical to ours.



 

[dalekphalm]

Just now, GDRRiley said:

well do you want to be able to play on line? thats another 60$ and drivers do get better over time on PC, more so on AMD but does also happen on Nivida and you can overclock the gpu 

XBL cost is a legitimate point, but XBL Gold is not required for Single Player games.

 

And if people are going to recommend cheap Windows Keys, it would be disingenous unless we pointed out that XBL Gold 12-month codes often go on sale for $40-$50 or sometimes even less (big sales are often available for half price, for example).

 

Overclocking is also a legitimate point, but by far the vast majority of gamers aren't going to bother with manual overclocking of anything.

[GDRRiley]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

XBL cost is a legitimate point, but XBL Gold is not required for Single Player games.

 

And if people are going to recommend cheap Windows Keys, it would be disingenous unless we pointed out that XBL Gold 12-month codes often go on sale for $40-$50 or sometimes even less (big sales are often available for half price, for example).

 

Overclocking is also a legitimate point, but by far the vast majority of gamers aren't going to bother with manual overclocking of anything.

I know that most don't overclock but XBL is a yearly cost, something that most people forget so even if its 1/2 off thats a AAA game on sale or after a few years a gpu or cpu upgrade. 

[Shreyas1]

To be fair, in a couple of years, most heigh end PCs would be mid range or low end, but the consoles probably would stay

 

 

[dalekphalm]

Just now, GDRRiley said:

I know that most don't overclock but XBL is a yearly cost, something that most people forget so even if its 1/2 off thats a AAA game on sale or after a few years a gpu or cpu upgrade. 

True, but XBL Gold also gives you 2 free games a month (that's 24 games per year). A lot of them are cheap indie games, but every few months you get an older AAA title, and occasionally you get a newer AAA title.

 

So that counter balances the ongoing cost.

 

Will that be worth it for everyone? Certainly not. But you cannot immediately dismiss it without considering this very excellent feature of XBL Gold. In addition, you get discounts on a bunch of games every month.