SNES Classic sold everywhere except in Quebec, Canada

[VolkovBrad67]

Just to add some precisions as to why the console cannot be sold in Quebec:

Since 2009, it is required by law (Quebec's government, not federal), that the video games for the new consoles need to offer a french version if such french version exists (it might already be sold somewhere else in the world). They can, however, sell the english version of the game if no french version exists, as long as the packaging and the documents are also in french. The problem is, that the french version is usually made for french Europeans, and since we have different requirements (could be technical like NTSC VS PAL, or could be because of other regulations), then sometimes the vendor can't directly use that European french version in Quebec. As you might imagine, Nintendo is not going to make a Quebec's specific version of all their games for that console, so that's why they can't currently sell it in Quebec and they probably don't care enough to update the packaging / documentation either.

One thing that is not clear to me is that the law explicitly states that it only applies to new generation consoles, and in this case I'm not sure if that classic SNES should be considered as such... So that might be a loophole they could exploit here and argue that this is not a new generation console and that it runs old games... I would not be surprised if the decision would be reversed in the near future.

[GoodBytes]

31 minutes ago, Ti133700N said:

Just to add some precisions as to why the console cannot be sold in Quebec:

Since 2009, it is required by law (Quebec's government, not federal), that the video games for the new consoles need to offer a french version if such french version exists (it might already be sold somewhere else in the world). They can, however, sell the english version of the game if no french version exists, as long as the packaging and the documents are also in french. The problem is, that the french version is usually made for french Europeans, and since we have different requirements (could be technical like NTSC VS PAL, or could be because of other regulations), then sometimes the vendor can't directly use that European french version in Quebec. As you might imagine, Nintendo is not going to make a Quebec's specific version of all their games for that console, so that's why they can't currently sell it in Quebec and they probably don't care enough to update the packaging / documentation either.

One thing that is not clear to me is that the law explicitly states that it only applies to new generation consoles, and in this case I'm not sure if that classic SNES should be considered as such... So that might be a loophole they could exploit here and argue that this is not a new generation console and that it runs old games... I would not be surprised if the decision would be reversed in the near future.

Correct. But European French is not the same as Quebecer French. It goes beyond just expressions. The grammar is different, they ave new words, and even different ones for the same thing. This is why many school here, in Quebec, ask (as in a strong recommendation or force) students to get French Quebec Dictionary and not one from French France.

 

It is considered a new generation console. The console plays old games but still new, and new "generation" over the NES Classic. I am sure that Nintendo can fight this, but the government LOVES to moves things all the way to the supreme court, only to, many times, loose. But it is costing a fortune for the company (and well tax payers) in legal fees. And for what? Not even 1 million sales of the unit... not worth it. The Switch is available in Quebec, has its box and OS in French and all Nintendo games have a Quebec French version. But cost wise it is justified. Here, not so. And they have to go through the mess of asking the third party devs to make a Quebec French version if there isn't. So, it is just a headache that they didn't want to get. Maybe it wasn't a problem for the NES classic as the games didn't have massive amount of text, but the SNES is.

[BachChain]

I always wondered why hating Quebec was a meme. I guess that partially explains it.

[PocketNerd]

Honestly, Quebec needs to stop legislating away English (which is the OTHER official language) and perhaps start promoting their unique culture and unique French Dialect. While allowing it's citizens the choice of which language to focus on.

Cause I can tell you that what they speak is NOT classical French.

[Jito463]

37 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

Cause I can tell you that what they speak is NOT classical French.

French Ebonics?  

[AshleyAshes]

39 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

Cause I can tell you that what they speak is NOT classical French.

My friend, wait until you hear Acadian French.

[TetraSky]

The only ones that I know who cling desperately to the French language, are either old people(50+) that doesn't speak a word of English or politicians who claim to want to protect the language to cater to those same old people as they are apparently the only ones going to the polls to vote these days.

 

That said, to me this just means less tax revenue for our terrible government, as we will just order it online from the US.

I understand the need for such laws to exist, but they are too draconian on certain things, which just result in some companies simply refusing to do any kind of business in our Province instead.

 

Though Nintendo could've just put in the European french version in the console if they really wanted to sell it. Even if the language is somewhat different, in the end, it's still french. You could say they technically are doing that already with a few things, like the Pokemon Anime that airs in Quebec these days... While the old seasons were in dubbed in Quebec, using the English names, the new seasons all use the France dub, with their terrible French pokemon names, even Ash became Sasha, like wtf is this shit.

[AshleyAshes]

Just now, TetraSky said:

we will just order it online

Well, I'm sure SOME will, but MOST who attempt to do so will face the dreaded 'Sold Out' sign.  

[SomeCallMeJo]

Well I never thought I would get one, because they sold out overnight and now this puts the final nail in the coffin for me. 

 

[RagnarokDel]

On 8/23/2017 at 8:33 AM, GoodBytes said:

-snip-

That's highly misleading and loaded with political opinions.

1. Even the OQLF doesn't know why they're not selling it here, they didn't say shit to Nintendo.

2. It's misleading to say that Québec is a bilingual province. 85% of quebecers are mother tongue french speakers but 95% of the population speaks french in their daily lives. Anglophones only represent 10% of the population and 5% cant speak french at all.

3. Quebecois are more likely to be bilingual because english is taught in school very early. Third grade when I was in elementary school, apparently it's first grade now. The ability to speak both language doesnt make the province bilingual if the language used daily is for the vast majority french.

4. The 101 law actually protects anglophones right way better then the francophones right in Ontario and other canadian provinces.

5. Until the 101 law, it was impossible for  french canadians majority to hold leadership positions in their own country. A common saying by th anglophones at the time was to force them to speak english with comments such as: Speak white.

 

On 8/23/2017 at 9:03 AM, Kevo05s said:

Because it's still under the province wide Law 101, which mandates that any goods sold in Quebec have French or bilingual packaging and content

Packaging. Content doesnt have to be in french. Otherwise there wouldnt be english cinemas and most games on steam wouldnt be available to quebecers.

 

On 8/23/2017 at 9:14 AM, Kevo05s said:

No, that's why this specific Item is controversial, the packaging itself has French, the problem is that SOME games aren't in French... Those games were originally allowed there because the law wasn't passed, and they weren't that fussy on digital stuff... And I understand why Nintendo will simply not sell in Quebec, instead of re writing the games to add french...

 

Bill 101 was passed in 1977, way before anyone was buying NES and SNES. Incidently, the games were 99% of the cases in english only at the time.

 

On 8/23/2017 at 9:40 AM, GoodBytes said:

To show how people are insecure about French, when Canada released the Census on the language spoken at home numbers, it shows, first (I'll get to that), that English was growing by a hint. And everyone freaked out on how French is dying. Anyway, it ended up being an error in Census results, and it was correct.

Going from 800k to 850k isnt a hint. 58000 is nothing compared to the totality of Canada  but it's a lot when you take into context how many anglophones there are in Quebec vs what those numbers were saying. The first people to raise an alarm about this were actually anglophones who didnt understand where that number was coming from. Of course politicians jumped on this.

 

On 8/23/2017 at 2:01 PM, PocketNerd said:

Cause I can tell you that what they speak is NOT classical French.

 

Actually we literally do. What we dont do is speak parisian french.

Also here's a mindfuck: Quebec has been speaking french universally as a language, over a century before France did.

 

On 8/23/2017 at 10:01 AM, knightslugger said:

it is slippery though. something desirable has been blocked for sale in canada because of a LAW. Laws are slippery, and unanticipated consequences is the slope. I knew about the requirement, but didn't think it was so stone like.

 

Except they didnt block it, if you are to believe the OQLF.

 

[8uhbbhu8]

agreed about the insecurity issue. I thnk however that there really is no reason to be insecure since french is so ingrained in the culture already. At least they can still get the snes be going to another province and don't have to cross the border.

[GoodBytes]

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

That's highly misleading and loaded with political opinions.

1. Even the OQLF doesn't know why they're not selling it here, they didn't say shit to Nintendo.

Of course they don't know... the product isn't out yet. OQLF works via inspection and complaints. The product isn't out to have either.

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

2. It's misleading to say that Québec is a bilingual province. 85% of quebecers are mother tongue french speakers but 95% of the population speaks french in their daily lives. Anglophones only represent 10% of the population and 5% cant speak french at all.

Quebec is officially bilingual. Same for the rest of Canada, despite being English in majority. English is tough in schools as well.

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

3. Quebecois are more likely to be bilingual because english is taught in school very early. Third grade when I was in elementary school, apparently it's first grade now. The ability to speak both language doesnt make the province bilingual if the language used daily is for the vast majority french.

Well there you go. My point.

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

4. The 101 law actually protects anglophones right way better then the francophones right in Ontario and other canadian provinces.

101 Law is a Quebec specific law. It is a provincial law. Not Federal (Canada wide). So how is Ontario protected?

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

5. Until the 101 law, it was impossible for  french canadians majority to hold leadership positions in their own country. A common saying by th anglophones at the time was

to force them to speak english with comments such as: Speak white.

Huh? No. And, I think you are getting confused. The law just enforces the right that at the government level you must operate in French. The issue was that they didn't want citizen to call the Quebec government or governmental services, and fall with someone that only knows English (which, granted, did happen) So now, any government official needs to know French well as a requirement for the job.

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

Packaging. Content doesnt have to be in french. Otherwise there wouldnt be english cinemas and most games on steam wouldnt be available to quebecers.

The law only applies to physical good sold in the province. As Valve is a US company, using a digital service, all games are available. With broadband internet connections these days downloading a game with all languages built-in, and no longer be restricted to disk sizes, also fixes the problem. As for indie title, as there is no French version available in any case (for the games that don't have French) it is also allowed.

 

The problem is that for many years in the past, most companies didn't do a French version of products, and Montreal was preeminently English (which was normal due to being a central area to enter Canada due to its location). Heck, stores where all in English as well. This has changed in the recent years where companies who did put languages that represent a large community, where a commercial advantaged over a competitor product even if the competitor was better. That is why in the US, while being English only, officially, and has no laws like Bill 101 of Quebec, has Spanish on the boxes.  In fact, it is common to see Spanish on boxes, manuals, company websites, and Spanish majority communities, in stores, you'll see Spanish signs as well.

 

I guess you can argue that Bill 101 was needed in 70's, but not any longer. Regardless, the whole bill was made out of fear and not need. Pushing French education, making all governmental job truly require to know French and English to be considered are example of action that could have been taken (like in the US many schools teach or have as option for students: Spanish classes).

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

Going from 800k to 850k isnt a hint. 58000 is nothing compared to the totality of Canada  but it's a lot when you take into context how many anglophones there are in Quebec vs what those numbers were saying. The first people to raise an alarm about this were actually anglophones who didnt understand where that number was coming from. Of course politicians jumped on this.

You lost me.

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

Actually we literally do. What we dont do is speak parisian french.

Heuu no. Quebec French is different than French international. You want an example? Dégêner. This words is exclusive to Quebec. You'll find it in the Le Petit Robert, but won't in the Larousse.

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

Also here's a mindfuck: Quebec has been speaking french universally as a language, over a century before France did.

Quebec: aka "La Nouvelle France" or our English readers: The New French was founded by French of France, and French people moved there.

How did Quebec knew French before France. Did you play with a time machine and changed the course of history?

 

 

8 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

Except they didnt block it, if you are to believe the OQLF.

OQLF can only block of fine companies that breaks the rule. The console isn't out. They act as a police.

Their role is not in certifying a product or content before release. Nintendo evaluated that they'll probably have problem with OQLF as it might not comply with the government rules, and such has decided to not release the console in Quebec. Will the OQLF or government go to Nintendo to reassure them that it is OK? No, they don't give a damn. They are more important things. The point is a large company being scared, and evaluate it is not worth the trouble. They probably looked at the sales of the NES Classic, and saw that the market share is just justified to go through the whole trouble.

 

 

[suicidalfranco]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Dégêner

wait... is that how they write "déjeuner"? weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiird

[GoodBytes]

9 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

wait... is that how they write "déjeuner"? weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiird

No! LOL!

It means: to stop being timid.

 

It is the reverse of: "gêner" (to be timid)

 

[suicidalfranco]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

No! LOL!

It means: to stop being timid.

 

It is the reverse of " gêner "

wow...

[RagnarokDel]

32 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Quebec is officially bilingual. Same for the rest of Canada, despite being English in majority. English is tough in schools as well.

Québec is officially unilingual french. New Brunswick is the only province that is officially bilingual.

32 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

101 Law is a Quebec specific law. It is a provincial law. Not Federal (Canada wide). So how is Ontario protected?

 

The rights of anglophones in Québec is better protected then the rights of francophones are in Ontario. That's irrelevant to bill 101, it's just a plain fact. The Ontario government has tried for decades to force francophones in the province to assimilate by making it difficult for them to go to school in french or get services.

33 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Huh? No. And, I think you are getting confused. The law just enforces the right that at the government level you must operate in French. The issue was that they didn't want citizen to call the Quebec government or governmental services, and fall with someone that only knows English (which, granted, did happen) So now, any government official needs to know French well as a requirement for the job.

 

It's more part of the quiet revolution then it is bill 101 but what I'm saying is accurate. It was extremely rare for french-canadians to be able to have a management job back in the days. Bill 101 was the last part of the quiet revolution if you will, the nationalization of Hydro-Québec was a big one but it's all part of a process that started back in the 50s and ended at the end of the 70s.

39 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Heuu no. Quebec French is different than French international. You want an example? Dégêner. This words is exclusive to Quebec. You'll find it in the Le Petit Robert, but won't in the Larousse.

 

Quebec: aka "La Nouvelle France" or our English readers: The New French was founded by French of France, and French people moved there.

How did Quebec knew French before France. Did you play with a time machine and changed the course of history?

There's new words. Quebec french is more closely related to french spoken outside Paris back in the days whereas international french is more closely related to parisian french. French from France it's it's own different thing that evolved from parisian french. As for my statement, no I didnt change the course of history. French was used as a universal language in Québec (yes, new France at the time) way before France did. France was using over 30 languages until the late 19th century whereas french in Québec was adopted in the 17th century and became universal by the 18th.

 

 

[GoodBytes]

17 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

Québec is officially unilingual french. New Brunswick is the only province that is officially bilingual.

Yes.. you are correct. Quebec like to see itself as unilingual, but they are part of Canada and that makes them bilingual as Canada is recognized as such.

 

 

Quote

The rights of anglophones in Québec is better protected then the rights of francophones are in Ontario. That's irrelevant to bill 101, it's just a plain fact. The Ontario government has tried for decades to force francophones in the province to assimilate by making it difficult for them to go to school in french or get services. 

Funny.. that is the same in Quebec but in reverse. English courses in French school are junk. You can't go to English school unless in specific cases and you are rich. Right now French school are over filled and English schools are closing down to lack of students. If you request any service in English from the provincial level you get someone that has, in many cases, horrible English where miss communication happens. They are many stories that reach the news where English speaking people are not served in English. (they can't work in French as they don't know well or simply don't know at all French (say a tourist)). Even getting a metro/bus ticket. Many Quebecer have a deep hatred against English, not because of something that happened in the past and can't move on, but rather just because English. It's like cats and dogs.

[RagnarokDel]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Funny.. that is the same in Quebec but in Reverse. English courses in French school is junk. You can't go to English school unless in specific cases and you are rich. Right

The english school system costs as much as the french one and all you need is one anglophone parent.

 

4 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

They are many stories that reach the news where English speaking people are not served in English, and can't in French as they don't know well or simply don't know at all French (say a tourist). Even getting a metro/bus ticket.

Put 1 anglophone in a room with 9 francophones and we start talking in english to accomodate them, that's the general observation I can make. If every time a french speaker wasnt served in french somewhere in Canada made the news, that's all you'd see in the news.

[GoodBytes]

19 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

The english school system costs as much as the french one and all you need is one anglophone parent.

Quebec doesn't subsidies private English schools as much as French, as a result, despite paying the same amount of taxes, you pay more to send your kids to English school. You'll also notice that all English school begs for donations everywhere to keep operating properly and not have the school fall apart, and help students who don't have the funds to go in English school.

 

Only Universities and CEGEP are covered.

 

Also:

Quote

Who Can Attend an English School

These children can go to an English school:

1)   children with a right under law to attend an English school

2)   children with serious learning difficulties who are given special permission

3)   children facing a serious family or humanitarian situation who are given special permission

4)   children in Quebec temporarily

https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/access-english-schools-quebec

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/english-private-schools-in-quebec-consider-refusing-government-subsidy-758224

 

[suicidalfranco]

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Quebec doesn't subsidies private English schools as much as French, as a result, despite paying the same amount of taxes, you pay more to send your kids to English school. You'll also notice that all English school begs for donations everywhere to keep operating properly and not have the school fall apart, and help students who don't have the funds to go in English school.

 

Only Universities and CEGEP are covered.

 

Also:

https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/access-english-schools-quebec

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/english-private-schools-in-quebec-consider-refusing-government-subsidy-758224

 

imho, if Quebec's french schooling system is part of the "L'alliance francaise" welp, at least they're getting the good stuff compared to most english systems, but having my doubts with that dégèner thing

[RagnarokDel]

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Quebec doesn't subsidies private English schools as much as French, as a result, despite paying the same amount of taxes, you pay more to send your kids to English school. You'll also notice that all English school begs for donations everywhere to keep operating properly and not have the school fall apart, and help students who don't have the funds to go in English school.

 

Only Universities and CEGEP are covered.

 

Also:

https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/access-english-schools-quebec

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/english-private-schools-in-quebec-consider-refusing-government-subsidy-758224

 

Honestly, no private schools should be subsidized at all imo. You want to send your kid to a private school, pay for it, entirely. PS: The public school system is also crumbling. That's why they had to close down schools recently because lack of maintenance.

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

imho, if Quebec's french schooling system is part of the "L'alliance francaise" welp, at least they're getting the good stuff compared to most english systems, but having my doubts with that dégèner thing

It's just a made up word that caught up. That's how new words are made. How do you think courriel became a thing

 

Courriel: email translation in quebec french, inspired of the word courrier (mail), way better then the one they made up in France: Mail which is just an anglicisme (no idea how you translate that))

[dizmo]

Hmmm, interesting. Yet good, all the more for the rest of Canada!! I'm surprised Quebec would be so picky over something like this.

@GoodBytes Are you sure that the issue is the packaging? Pretty sure it'd have to be bilingual to be accepted in the rest of Canada.

 

On 2017-08-23 at 7:05 AM, Misanthrope said:

Actually I thought the restriction was nationwide: I remember superstore in Vancouver had absolutely everything also labeled in French. I guess most companies think "Well we might as well not guess what we're selling in Quebec just fucking label everything in French too"

I'm pretty sure it is.

On 2017-08-23 at 7:13 AM, AshleyAshes said:

The vast majority of products produced for Canada, with Canadian packaging, are bilingual so as to allow a single SKU across the entire country.  Quebec isn't the only place that Canadian's speak French so it's a bonus there.  However bilingual language laws are provincial in Quebec and not a matter of federal law and do not apply outside of Quebec.

I'm pretty sure it's actually law for packaging to have both languages. There have been several times where, at my last job, we either received labels to affix to products because of missing French, or had to return/destroy the shipment entirely.

Quote

2.1.2 Language

Subsection 6(2) Regulations

The product identity must be shown in English and French. In some cases a product identity declaration is bilingual in and of itself, such as "cologne" or "serviettes".

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/01248.html#sec2.1.2Language

Competition Bureau of Canada.

 

On 2017-08-23 at 7:15 AM, Misanthrope said:

What about public servants? I thought they should be bilingual even outside of Quebec i.e. Any legal proceeding or such they need to be able to handle French too.

 

Well I might have understood that wrong obviously: this is a genuine question about the strange country of Canada.

Depends on the level of the public servant. For example, I have a friend who works for BC Hydro, the power company in British Columbia which is a Crown corporation. There's absolutely no requirement for French, because the province is (largely) English speaking. You'd likely find Mandarin to take priority over French.

On 2017-08-23 at 7:24 AM, Kevo05s said:

This depends on the province and who is your "boss" is. The RCMP (royal canadian mounted police) needs to be bilingual, because they are under the Federal government, where they are officially bilingual, Province and/or City police will follow the province's requirement, where as it will mostly only be English, except Quebec where it's only in French they are required to talk, and New-Brunswick (where I live, only officially bilingual province) to speak both languages 

Actually, you don't have to be bilingual to be a member of the RCMP...

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

Hmmm, interesting. Yet good, all the more for the rest of Canada!! I'm surprised Quebec would be so picky over something like this.

@GoodBytes Are you sure that the issue is the packaging? Pretty sure it'd have to be bilingual to be accepted in the rest of Canada.

Well that is what it was said... but I am seeing pictures of the SNES Classic box North America box, now that they are out, and I see French.. so it must be the software... or some games not being translated to Quebec French. The problem is that Nintendo is not saying a single word on this.

[vanished]

I don't understand this, everything I've ever seen in this country has had both English and French, I thought that was a requirement on the national level?  And if so, what extra thing is needed in Quebec?  I don't get it...

[dizmo]

35 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Well that is what it was said... but I am seeing pictures of the SNES Classic box North America box, now that they are out, and I see French.. so it must be the software... or some games not being translated to Quebec French. The problem is that Nintendo is not saying a single word on this.

Yeah, I'm thinking the article got it wrong. This is even weirder now though, especially if they expect all games to be translated into French. I'm sure they don't have that requirement for other software.

31 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I don't understand this, everything I've ever seen in this country has had both English and French, I thought that was a requirement on the national level?  And if so, what extra thing is needed in Quebec?  I don't get it...

It is. It's got to be something else...perhaps some kind of miscommunication.