Alphacool Announces The Eisbaer 420, World's Biggest AIO Solution

[Prysin]

37 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

AIOs don't have a place for me. 120mm ones get out preformed by air coolers, several 240mm ones too, and when you get to the price of an AIO that dosent get out preformed you might as well do a custom loop and have it look nicer

 

*edit*

No wait 120mm AIOs can make sense on GPUs in some cases

Dont forget that air coolers are usually quieter too

[Bananasplit_00]

Just now, Prysin said:

Dont forget that air coolers are usually quieter too

Yah friend got a 240mm AIO from Corsair, screamed like a jet before he bought new fans

[d0nsen]

people that talk "might aswell do a custom loop" have no clue what they are talking about. had my fun with custom loops from 2003 for around 10 years, theres a point in life tho where its just really really much work for the enthusiast 10%. building a waterloop that performs and is servicable (because you will need to service it) is exponentially more expensive than an aio. also people talking like this never ever had to disassemble a look because they switched some components. you can just rip out an aio on the other hand.

[ApolloFury]

2 hours ago, Deli said:

How many cases can fit a 420 rad? For cases that can fit, usually it won't be small nor cheap. Why not just go custom loop if that's the case?

Define R5 / S I guess counts as a small mid tower.

[mrchow19910319]

Puke...

[NumLock21]

When will we see ones with dual CPU blocks?

[AnonymousGuy]

5 hours ago, d0nsen said:

people that talk "might aswell do a custom loop" have no clue what they are talking about. had my fun with custom loops from 2003 for around 10 years, theres a point in life tho where its just really really much work for the enthusiast 10%. building a waterloop that performs and is servicable (because you will need to service it) is exponentially more expensive than an aio. also people talking like this never ever had to disassemble a look because they switched some components. you can just rip out an aio on the other hand.

My loops go 2+ years without service and with strategic quick disconnects I can do component swaps without losing any fluid.  It can be very expensive if you start building for aesthetics, but a basic loop isn't going to look or be much different from OP.

[Bananasplit_00]

5 hours ago, d0nsen said:

people that talk "might aswell do a custom loop" have no clue what they are talking about. had my fun with custom loops from 2003 for around 10 years, theres a point in life tho where its just really really much work for the enthusiast 10%. building a waterloop that performs and is servicable (because you will need to service it) is exponentially more expensive than an aio. also people talking like this never ever had to disassemble a look because they switched some components. you can just rip out an aio on the other hand.

I'm a completely noob at water cooling, but it's not hard, the only thing that takes any time for me is getting air out of the loop. Upgrading stuff seems easy as hell to me. I have picked apart my loop and the only thing I can say is that filling it again is a bitch, draining, assembly and disassembly are easy.

[Th3pwn3r]

20 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Meh. If you need to start to plan out buying special cases to fit your AIO, it's time to consider a custom loop. Maybe that's just me but when it comes to looks it would fill up more cases more nicely to have dual 240s and a reservoir somewhere.

 

Although this is expandable so maybe that's the idea: buy this now, expand into a custom loop later.

Think about this, some people have nice cases already but are considering a switch over from air.

20 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Tubing makes it look incredibly cheap though: The EK AIO actually looked marginally better. At this price points it's not too much to expect better looks honestly, even marginally so.

At this price point? This isnt remotely close to being expensive.

20 hours ago, Vindyctive said:

The tubing is something one could ignore/sleeve if you really wanted to, but damn, those quick connects are atrocious. 

The tubing is functional, a coil wrapped around a tube is good to prevent kinking of the tube or collapsing. 

20 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Eg. My Seidon 120V rev 1 having the pump seize and the refill port on the block leak than fail due to the built up pressure (still don't know why my computer is functioning after that).

BTW cheap waterblock+pump combos suck.

This kit has neither a cheap pump or water block if we're talking about AIO cooling solutions.

19 hours ago, Mooshi said:

The tubing on my cheap AIO looks a hell of a lot more premium.

 

I'll admit that it does look better but looks are subjective and sleeving is prone to fraying.

18 hours ago, leadeater said:

Nah your original point makes way more sense, if you're going past dual rad you might as well go custom. Custom loops really aren't that hard or that much more expensive if you don't go with a large res and a D5 pump. Triple rad really does limit your mounting options.

LOL. Custom loops are not only far more work BUT a custom loop can easily cost $1000. My build priced out to be that much on EKs site and that wasn't even with a GPU water block. Sure it can be done cheaper but you're easily going to be over $500 in just materials alone, then there's a fair amount of labor when installing a custom loop.

16 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

AIOs don't have a place for me. 120mm ones get out preformed by air coolers, several 240mm ones too, and when you get to the price of an AIO that dosent get out preformed you might as well do a custom loop and have it look nicer

 

*edit*

No wait 120mm AIOs can make sense on GPUs in some cases

See my response about about the costs and labor involved with a custom loop.

16 hours ago, Deli said:

How many cases can fit a 420 rad? For cases that can fit, usually it won't be small nor cheap. Why not just go custom loop if that's the case?

Because custom loops have a lot of thought involved, money invested, hard work and maintenance . That is for a quality install that looks professionally done(hard tubing).

16 hours ago, Prysin said:

Its anodized copper. Aka not pure copper aka the point sort of diminshes

That would be copper clad. They do coppee cladding of aluminum wire a lot and I'm not a fan of that either but it's better than pure aluminum by far.

16 hours ago, Prysin said:

Tubing is too narrow and pump headpressure too low to actually make proper use of the radiators capacity. Look at the 295x2 and Fury X. Both run on a 120mm thick rad. Both have 2x pumps in order to ensure enough headpressure to force the water at a faster rate through the radiator. 

 

Ordinary AIOs rely on a slight vacuum and gravity on the inlet side of the pump to drag the water through the loop. The pump on most AIOs isn't much stronger than it has to be to push the water upwards and halfway through the radiator. This is part of the reason why manufacturers strongly recommend you mount the radiator above the pump. Because as the water slowly evaporate out of the unit, the build-up of air pockets can affect the vacuum on the pump inlet and drastically reduce efficiency and headpressure, reducing flow rate and performance. 

 

By using smaller tubing you impose further restrictions on the flow, making the pump work harder to maintain optimal flow. 

 

There is a reason why most custom loops have thicker tubing. 

It has a lot to do with the motor I the pump and where it's efficient. Pressure in psi is not the full picture because of differences in volume. This is why pumps are rated in flows of gallons per hour or liters. I'm honestly not sure what kinds of scenarios these pumps like.

16 hours ago, Prysin said:

Dont forget that air coolers are usually quieter too

If the pump is screaming . However it's usually just the crappy fans included. Rarely do people buy air coolers that have the perfect fans included so they? Although my Dark Rock Pro 3 came with nice fans.

16 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Yah friend got a 240mm AIO from Corsair, screamed like a jet before he bought new fans

Not surprising. That's just one example.

13 hours ago, d0nsen said:

people that talk "might aswell do a custom loop" have no clue what they are talking about. had my fun with custom loops from 2003 for around 10 years, theres a point in life tho where its just really really much work for the enthusiast 10%. building a waterloop that performs and is servicable (because you will need to service it) is exponentially more expensive than an aio. also people talking like this never ever had to disassemble a look because they switched some components. you can just rip out an aio on the other hand.

I agree with you 100% . It's pretty clear they're inexperienced with custom loops if they're saying that. You can easily get SEVERAL AIO systems for the price of a custom water loop.

8 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

My loops go 2+ years without service and with strategic quick disconnects I can do component swaps without losing any fluid.  It can be very expensive if you start building for aesthetics, but a basic loop isn't going to look or be much different from OP.

I've seen recommendations to service a custom loop every three months. I'm lazy at times so that seems like way too much for me. Still, it's definitely in the design of the system and complexity when it comes to the maintenance ease or difficulty.

7 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

I'm a completely noob at water cooling, but it's not hard, the only thing that takes any time for me is getting air out of the loop. Upgrading stuff seems easy as hell to me. I have picked apart my loop and the only thing I can say is that filling it again is a bitch, draining, assembly and disassembly are easy.

Burping the system properly isn't that hard but it's not always simple either. It depends on where your loop is serviceable from. A lot of people have to really tear things apart to 'get in there'.

[AnonymousGuy]

10 minutes ago, Th3pwn3r said:

 

LOL. Custom loops are not only far more work BUT a custom loop can easily cost $1000. My build priced out to be that much on EKs site and that wasn't even with a GPU water block.

How were you getting up to $1000 with CPU only?  I can't see that happening unless you're doing something ridiculous like dual pump three rads and a bagillion fittings.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, Th3pwn3r said:

LOL. Custom loops are not only far more work BUT a custom loop can easily cost $1000. My build priced out to be that much on EKs site and that wasn't even with a GPU water block. Sure it can be done cheaper but you're easily going to be over $500 in just materials alone, then there's a fair amount of labor when installing a custom loop.

You can do way cheaper than $500: $90 CPU block, $50 Pump/Res combo, $75 240mm PE RAD, $48 for 6 fittings, $11 tubing, $26 two fans. This isn't even trying to find the cheapest stuff either, and if you want cheaper drop to a 120mm RAD for $32 less. Yes more than most AIO coolers but this triple AIO isn't going to be cheap and much more difficult to mount or find compatible cases.

 

Labor is minimal when using soft tubing. You have a minimum of 6 fittings and 3 tubes and a maximum of 8 fittings and 4 tubes for res/pump combo vs separate pump and res.

 

The first ever custom loop I made was in a LD PC-V8 with 3x 480mm RADs, D5 pump, large res, blocks on CPU + 2 GPU + MB + VRM + RAM and used the largest soft tubing you can get. Took less than a day to do everything and be back using it. It's now hard tubing and using CPU/VRM/MB monoblock. 

[Deli]

Oh, my Jesus. Whoever comments in this thread, actually owns a Eisbaer AIO? Please raise his hand.

 

I do have one, rebuild with better 3/8 tubing and expand with a GPU waterblock. So one 240 rad cools both CPU and GPU in one loop.

 

Whoever comments the pump is too weak or the tubing is too thin. Open their mouths without knowing jacksXXX.

 

 

[Deli]

16 hours ago, d0nsen said:

people that talk "might aswell do a custom loop" have no clue what they are talking about. had my fun with custom loops from 2003 for around 10 years, theres a point in life tho where its just really really much work for the enthusiast 10%. building a waterloop that performs and is servicable (because you will need to service it) is exponentially more expensive than an aio. also people talking like this never ever had to disassemble a look because they switched some components. you can just rip out an aio on the other hand.

Many people do watercooling don't go straight to custom loop. Usually they start with AIOs first. So they know all the pros and cons of both AIO and custom loop. If you prefer AIO, fine with me.

[Prysin]

4 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

How were you getting up to $1000 with CPU only?  I can't see that happening unless you're doing something ridiculous like dual pump three rads and a bagillion fittings.

Cpu only is easily 350-500$ 

[Bananasplit_00]

5 hours ago, Th3pwn3r said:

 

See my response about about the costs and labor involved with a custom loop.

 

Burping the system properly isn't that hard but it's not always simple either. It depends on where your loop is serviceable from. A lot of people have to really tear things apart to 'get in there'.

If you need to tear it apart you probably didn't plan very well tbh. My loop isn't optimal in any way but it's not super hard to fill, only takes a crap load of time. And as for the costs, once you are buying a 360 AIO you can pay for a custom loop. Soft tube is extremely easy to work with, put the loop together in a few hours. What took time with my first time waster cooling has been getting the air out because I did indeed pick a shitty case for that. The Define C with a 240 and a 360 just doesn't wait to get all the air out, hit myself in the head with the computer a few times lol

[Alphacool]

5 hours ago, Deli said:

I do have one, rebuild with better 3/8 tubing and expand with a GPU waterblock. So one 240 rad cools both CPU and GPU in one loop.

Wich CPU and GPU are you using?

[Deli]

6 minutes ago, Alphacool said:

Wich CPU and GPU are you using?

4790K @4.6 GHz and a Sapphire Nitro RX480 at 1500MHz. GPU temp at ~50C and ~60C for the CPU during gaming. If I run only Unigine Heaven for the GPU, it will only reach 43-44C. The GPU waterblock is EK univeral.

[Alphacool]

Oh wow... 4790@4,6 and OC RX480 is a lot heat for one of our 240mm rads. I would prefere a 360 for this setup but nice to see that it works :-)

[JoostinOnline]

I get the name, but when I saw the number, I immediately thought of weed

[Deli]

Just now, Alphacool said:

Oh wow... 4790@4,6 and OC RX480 is a lot heat for one of our 240mm rads. I would prefere a 360 for this setup but nice to see that it works :-)

My rig is a mITX case, so I can't fit a bigger radiator in. I had doubt to use only a 240 rad at first. But Jay2cents shows it's doable in his Nano S build. He uses a 4790K at 4.6GHz and a GTX970.

 

Temp can be better with bigger rad, of course. As my 4790K can actually do 4.8GHz with enough cooling. But 4.6Ghz is more than enough to drive the RX480.

[Marine_Boy]

It's ugly...

[Alphacool]

@Marine_Boy
Well... i like the sweet cat pic ;-) You can buy one of the other AIO solution for which we are an OEM manufacturer ;-)

@Deli
It is doable. If you are not looking for the best temp results it is ok. We have here a render system with an i7 5820 and 3x GTX 780ti and we are using only one 480mm radiator and all fans on 800rpm.

[Th3pwn3r]

On 8/16/2017 at 7:02 PM, AnonymousGuy said:

How were you getting up to $1000 with CPU only?  I can't see that happening unless you're doing something ridiculous like dual pump three rads and a bagillion fittings.

Sorry, I had posted on my phone and had an error. I tried to edit it to make my corrections but it didn't save. The build I had priced out was over $600 for CPU only.

On 8/16/2017 at 7:16 PM, leadeater said:

You can do way cheaper than $500: $90 CPU block, $50 Pump/Res combo, $75 240mm PE RAD, $48 for 6 fittings, $11 tubing, $26 two fans. This isn't even trying to find the cheapest stuff either, and if you want cheaper drop to a 120mm RAD for $32 less. Yes more than most AIO coolers but this triple AIO isn't going to be cheap and much more difficult to mount or find compatible cases.

 

Labor is minimal when using soft tubing. You have a minimum of 6 fittings and 3 tubes and a maximum of 8 fittings and 4 tubes for res/pump combo vs separate pump and res.

 

The first ever custom loop I made was in a LD PC-V8 with 3x 480mm RADs, D5 pump, large res, blocks on CPU + 2 GPU + MB + VRM + RAM and used the largest soft tubing you can get. Took less than a day to do everything and be back using it. It's now hard tubing and using CPU/VRM/MB monoblock. 

You're 100% going for the far cheaper parts. In the build I had in my cart I had a 'future proof' radiator, pump and resorvoir. If you're going with a custom loop then get hard tubing, go all out, make it look good, put the effort in.

On 8/16/2017 at 11:18 PM, Prysin said:

Cpu only is easily 350-500$ 

Yep, I will say that if I recall correctly I also had the hard tubing tool kit.

On 8/17/2017 at 0:07 AM, Bananasplit_00 said:

If you need to tear it apart you probably didn't plan very well tbh. My loop isn't optimal in any way but it's not super hard to fill, only takes a crap load of time. And as for the costs, once you are buying a 360 AIO you can pay for a custom loop. Soft tube is extremely easy to work with, put the loop together in a few hours. What took time with my first time waster cooling has been getting the air out because I did indeed pick a shitty case for that. The Define C with a 240 and a 360 just doesn't wait to get all the air out, hit myself in the head with the computer a few times lol

With soft tubing it might as well be an AIO solution in my opinion. UNLESS you get a big boy radiator and pump. The tubing does not last forever by the way.

On 8/17/2017 at 3:38 AM, JoostinOnline said:

I get the name, but when I saw the number, I immediately thought of weed

As do a lot of people when they hear or see 420. My co-workers birthday is on April 20th, he's never once smoked the stuff.

[Guest lilbman]

There is so much plastic on that thing, it looks like a children's toy.

[leadeater]

13 minutes ago, Th3pwn3r said:

You're 100% going for the far cheaper parts. In the build I had in my cart I had a 'future proof' radiator, pump and resorvoir. If you're going with a custom loop then get hard tubing, go all out, make it look good, put the effort in.

What if you don't want hard tubing? Not everyone does and I wouldn't recommend it as a first or second time project. Soft tubing allows you to remove parts from the system without draining it where hard tubing does not.

 

Also no, the parts I picked were not the cheapest at all. There were cheaper pump options and there is an entire range of rads below the PE series, SE series. $500 simply is not a typical price for a simple good custom loop that does the same job as an AIO.

 

You're reasoning is slightly flawed if you are saying if going custom go all out and get the best then say custom costs way more than AIO, of course it's going to if that is how you are doing it.

 

Custom loops don't have to be expensive they just can be if that is what you are after. 

 

Edit:

And if you are going custom what is the goal: Cooling performance, acoustics or aesthetics. I suspect for you you're weighting it heavily to aesthetics where for me it was cooling performance and acoustics.