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Corridor Calls Out LTT on RED Video

DaftBehemoth
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Posted
2 minutes ago, featherwolf said:

So, in summary: cinema bros who are used to being f'ed in the A by high end camera makers don't feel like it's such a big deal, since "the shots are way more expensive than the camera" anyways, so don't complain about it?

 

I think they're missing the point and the spirit of the video Linus uploaded. A popular youtuber making the jump to a much higher tier of camera gear is bound to suffer from some sticker shock and the guys who have already long since bought into the ecosystem will obviously shrug and say it's not so bad despite the clear fact that most of those items are wildly overpriced. Yeah he wasn't the most informed about it all in the video, but that's because he's just starting with Red gear and he's not even the camera savvy guy in the crew so of course he's not gonna know everything about them. He's just taking a risk by putting his money where his mouth is when it comes to creating the highest quality content he knows how to and hoping it'll pay off. 

 

PS. they mention how if he spent the money on the products he shouldn't make a video complaining about it... So obviously the best thing to do is to make a video and complain about him making a video complaining about it. Youtube auto-fellatio at it's finest.

The point is he doesn't understand why they cost so much which just comes off badly on him. Its not RED making a cable for 10c and charging $240 its RED making a cable for $120 maybe and marking it up to account for limited production run costs, R&D and then profit. 

 

Go have a read through my older comments talking about why the cost of the LEMO connectors is much higher than any other cable you're used too. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, SandalsWarrior said:

The guys from CorridorDigital started good by explaining why some things cost how much they cost but I think that they only wanted to pick on every single thing that Linus has said, I mean 200$ cable??? You can invent as many arguments as you want but are u f*cking deluded? It's a god damn cable, same with the screen.

But it's not just a god damn cable. Again you're used to $5 cables being made on a mass scale. 

 

The LEMO connection is not just used by RED, its an industry standard connector for a variety of different devices. The locking mechanism is very robust, it's shielded very well, weather proof and designed to work in extreme conditions. 

Due to the nature of the cable being limited and made of higher quality materials designed it's going to cost more. For example if you want to buy just a LEMO connector by itself you are looking at $60 maybe (this varies on how many pins etc etc) so two per cable that's $120. Then take into account putting the cable together, R&D, other materials such as the wire, shielding and the woven material that goes around the cable. 

 

It all adds up - in the film industry people pay for the best they possibly can because they want it to work in every possible situation - these cables are not being hung behind a monitor all day. They are being thrown around, trampled on, being used in the snow and extreme heat and constantly being thrashed and banged while on the camera. A  $1 HDMI cable would crumble under those conditions. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, DIT said:

But it's not just a god damn cable. Again you're used to $5 cables being made on a mass scale. 

 

The LEMO connection is not just used by RED, its an industry standard connector for a variety of different devices. The locking mechanism is very robust, it's shielded very well, weather proof and designed to work in extreme conditions. 

Due to the nature of the cable being limited and made of higher quality materials designed it's going to cost more. For example if you want to buy just a LEMO connector by itself you are looking at $60 maybe (this varies on how many pins etc etc) so two per cable that's $120. Then take into account putting the cable together, R&D, other materials such as the wire, shielding and the woven material that goes around the cable. 

 

It all adds up - in the film industry people pay for the best they possibly can because they want it to work in every possible situation - these cables are not being hung behind a monitor all day. They are being thrown around, trampled on, being used in the snow and extreme heat and constantly being thrashed and banged while on the camera. A  $1 HDMI cable would crumble under those conditions. 

I understand, but you do realise how ridiculous a 200$ 1m(Idk it's lenght) cable sounds, right?

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Posted
13 minutes ago, SandalsWarrior said:

I understand, but you do realise how ridiculous a 200$ 1m(Idk it's lenght) cable sounds, right?

It's maybe 6-10 inches long. Yes I understand the reasoning that $200 is a lot, you can buy a phone for that. 

 

Still doesn't change my opinion that the price although high can be justified.

 

 

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Posted
8 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

This was already posted.

 

Threads merged.

I didn't know it was posted 

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Posted
18 hours ago, BuckGup said:

 I can see Linus simply wants the best for him and the viewers but having a RED camera for Youtube is silly. 

It's also incredibly important to retain camera talent and give them room to grow. Brandon is seriously skilled from what I've seen, and if he wants to work with RED cameras, Linus can either buy him some or he can go work on a film set :P 

 

Also no one was actually take Linus' rant seriously were they? It was an entertainment piece....

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Posted
2 hours ago, DIT said:

The point is he doesn't understand why they cost so much which just comes off badly on him.

 

He understands perfectly why they cost so much (else he wouldn't have bought them), he was just being entertaining and he knows his audience.

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Posted
3 hours ago, SandalsWarrior said:

480 or 720? I don't know one single person whos internet can not handle at least 1080p. My internet handles 2k and 4k with ease but my pc is to shit and the screen rez is 1080 anyway. It is not that stupid to use Red for youtube as maybe in a few years you wanna show some old footage and by then maybe everyone can watch in 4k so it is nice to have it filmed in that rez. Also, Linus is not the only youtuber using RED, watch MKBHD, he also uses RED and his videos look f*cking incredible.

I don't personally know 50 million Americans either but most of the US either has 25Mb/s or less including over 24 million without internet. So 4K streaming without hell compression is unrealistic. Same goes for Youtube. At 4K it's 35Mb/s which is a lot more compared to 8Mb/s at 1080p but the amount of compression is insane. Watch a 4K Blu-ray and then watch a 4K netflix stream or youtube video. Not even comparable 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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15 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Watch a 4K Blu-ray and then watch a 4K netflix stream or youtube video. Not even comparable 

One of the bigger problems with YouTube is that it decompresses everything it ingests and almost everyone is uploading lossy video to YouTube so you're looking at at least two lossy compression passes instead of one when you consume content on YouTube.  If someone is capturing their own footage to something like h.264, it's three passes.  Your game capture setup capturing h.264 and your camera capturing h.264.  Then you edit and export as h.264.  Then you upload that to YouTube which then decompresses it to h.264.  Three lossy compression passes.

 

You can eliminate this however.  YouTube also supports a lot of LOSSLESS formats though most people would find that uploading that much data would be overkill.  h.264 can also be lossless (Still YUV 4:2:0, but the rest of the process is lossless) though a lot of h.264 encoders don't support h.264's lossless profile.  Handbrake though can export h.264 lossless and so can a lot of command line encoders.  Adobe Media Encoder can NOT export h.264 lossless.  And YouTube will HAPPILY ingest h.264 lossless or even some right oddball lossless formats.  YouTube will even ingest HuffYUV and Lagarith lossless.  YouTube's backend is actually built using FFMPEG so it can ingest anything that FFMPEG can decode.

 

Removing unneeded lossy encoding passes when getting content to the viewers can have a marked improvement in quality but instead most people just use lossy h.264 and crank the values high thinking that solves the problem.

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Posted

I find it funny that the viewers are more upset about this than the YouTube creators. xD

-KuJoe

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19 hours ago, Iceyhotfire123 said:

Ltt is all clickbait thumbnails now. They do it for the money and views. 

i guess you dont realize how much money linus just dropped to make LTX happen.  Sure they do it for money and views, thats how business work.   but they also do it for the people that watch.   

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2 hours ago, Dredgy said:

Also no one was actually take Linus' rant seriously were they? It was an entertainment piece....

A lot of people were.

It's a pretty bad argument regardless because it just boils down to this:

db0.jpg.a3f16d2be8b019bc884919aa35ccaabf.jpg

 

If your humor is "I am going to pretend to be ignorant", and your audience agrees with you and can't tell that you're not being serious, then you need to take a long hard look at yourself and ask "what am I doing wrong?".

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20 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

If your humor is "I am going to pretend to be ignorant", and your audience agrees with you and can't tell that you're not being serious, then you need to take a long hard look at yourself and ask "what am I doing wrong?".

If your job is to make entertaining content and you make entertaining content which doesn't actually misrepresent any facts, you're doing a good job. Considering how open Linus is with his business practices and sense of humour, then it's just the viewers who aren't thinking.

 

I though the RED rant video was one of Linuses best videos ever, mainly because I could relate to it (as someone who though PCs as a hobby were expensive before switching to cameras, including REDs). It was also hilariously funny, was an incredibly smart way to introduce a not-camera-people audience to the sheer mess of expense that video production is, provided a good look at behind at the scenes and showed off some cool technology and raised legitimate issues about the RED ecosystem.

 

Exaggerating a scenario to the extremes is what Linus does best and he did it fantastically well in this case.

 

If anyone legitimately thought that he thought it was an overpriced mess of a camera, then why did he buy two? Or did people seriously think he was seeing the invoice for the first time? That just goes to show people don't use common sense. If people thought that, then they need to ask themselves "what am I doing wrong?"

 

As a RED camera user (who'll have a film this year at Cannes hopefully!), I found the video both hilarious and oh so relatable.

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6 hours ago, tecggst said:

I'm going to go straight up LTT fanboy and defend @LinusTech here.

 

1) I don't think that video was  meant to be sarcastic, it was an off the hook reaction of Linus finding out what he paid for, he's not questioning why they needed the parts, he's just not happy about how much they cost.

 

Of course Linus knew how much the RED gear cost, and why they cost as much as they do (he approved the purchase, didn't he?). But just like most people he doesn't have to be happy with how much it cost. For example, I complained about the cost of my car when I bought it, and you'll occasionally still hear me b*tch about it, but that doesn't mean I didn't want to pay for it, I know what quality costs and will pony up, but that doesn't mean I'm happy about it. Linus was the same with the RED gear, he knew how much it cost, he was willing to pay it, but was not happy about it. Sometimes we want something and will pay what it costs to obtain it, but won't be happy about what it cost; it's part of life.

 

2) Part of what makes LTT great is that all the people working are massive gear heads, Linus and @Slick love messing with PCs, @BRollTheIntern is bogo for camera gear, @TaranLMG uploaded a 3 hour tutorial on Premier, you get the idea. Sometimes they go all out because they want to play with the gear and have a badass tech setup because they enjoy the experience. That's part of what the RED cameras are, this is Linus helping Brandon and Maxine improve their video quality by investing in some crazy gear (This is their version of full room watercooling). They do it because they want to.

 

3) Linus knows very well the importance of investing in your employees and business, sure he could have managed with some cheap-ish 4k camera like a GH5 like most other tech youtubers, but with the RED gear he's investing in the future (Remember, this is the guy who bought a 4k sony camera back in 1080p youtube days). 

 

Just because Youtube doesn't support mainstream 8K doesn't mean LTT cannot use all those extra pixels, the more detail that's captured the easier the editors will be able to use those clips. With more detail, the editors have more options to clip or zoom into a clip. With RED raw footage they can do a lot of post production work that makes the videos a better production value.

 

Linus believes in delivering quality content to youtube (just look at his videos where they look into their video editing process) and they want their videos look their best on youtube and while the RED gear might be overkill, Linus probably believes that the investment is worth it.

 

 

And LMG also uploads to FPC, and with the higher bitrate FPC videos look so much better than Youtube and I will presume that as FPC takes off, LTT will be looking to upload better quality videos to FPC and maybe move to 8k at a really good bitrate.

 

 

 

The problem here isn't the price of the cameras or for what reason the gear's going to be used. The problem here lies within the structure and overall message of the video. I did not take the video sarcastically and I have been watching LTT videos from Day 1 so I think I can sense when he's joking sarcastically or not. I have watched 3,776 LTT videos to be informed first, then entertained. 

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23 minutes ago, Dredgy said:

If your job is to make entertaining content and you make entertaining content which doesn't actually misrepresent any facts, you're doing a good job. Considering how open Linus is with his business practices and sense of humour, then it's just the viewers who aren't thinking.

 

I though the RED rant video was one of Linuses best videos ever, mainly because I could relate to it (as someone who though PCs as a hobby were expensive before switching to cameras, including REDs). It was also hilariously funny, was an incredibly smart way to introduce a not-camera-people audience to the sheer mess of expense that video production is, provided a good look at behind at the scenes and showed off some cool technology and raised legitimate issues about the RED ecosystem.

 

Exaggerating a scenario to the extremes is what Linus does best and he did it fantastically well in this case.

 

If anyone legitimately thought that he thought it was an overpriced mess of a camera, then why did he buy two? Or did people seriously think he was seeing the invoice for the first time? That just goes to show people don't use common sense. If people thought that, then they need to ask themselves "what am I doing wrong?"

 

As a RED camera user (who'll have a film this year at Cannes hopefully!), I found the video both hilarious and oh so relatable.

Which part of Cannes ? Are you entering a short you shot ? 

 

My problem with it I guess purely down to opinions is that I think an informative way would have been way more educational and fun, purely my opinion. 

 

Like when he was talking about the cables if they did a bit of research and did like "Holy shit this is expensive, $240 for a damn cable.. well the reason for this absurd cost is ... etc etc etc" and didn't just try to shit on RED but gave at least some reason as to why RED charge the amount they do. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, SandalsWarrior said:

480 or 720? I don't know one single person whos internet can not handle at least 1080p. My internet handles 2k and 4k with ease but my pc is to shit and the screen rez is 1080 anyway. It is not that stupid to use Red for youtube as maybe in a few years you wanna show some old footage and by then maybe everyone can watch in 4k so it is nice to have it filmed in that rez. Also, Linus is not the only youtuber using RED, watch MKBHD, he also uses RED and his videos look f*cking incredible.

@SandalsWarrior just so you know, 2K and 1080p are essentially the same thing (2048 x 1080 vs 1920 x 1080) - perhaps you meant 1440p instead and said 2K by mistake?

5 hours ago, DIT said:

But it's not just a god damn cable. Again you're used to $5 cables being made on a mass scale. 

 

The LEMO connection is not just used by RED, its an industry standard connector for a variety of different devices. The locking mechanism is very robust, it's shielded very well, weather proof and designed to work in extreme conditions. 

Due to the nature of the cable being limited and made of higher quality materials designed it's going to cost more. For example if you want to buy just a LEMO connector by itself you are looking at $60 maybe (this varies on how many pins etc etc) so two per cable that's $120. Then take into account putting the cable together, R&D, other materials such as the wire, shielding and the woven material that goes around the cable. 

 

It all adds up - in the film industry people pay for the best they possibly can because they want it to work in every possible situation - these cables are not being hung behind a monitor all day. They are being thrown around, trampled on, being used in the snow and extreme heat and constantly being thrashed and banged while on the camera. A  $1 HDMI cable would crumble under those conditions. 

Earlier I swear you said LEMO connectors cost $45 each, now you're saying $60. Let's just say you're correct, and one connector is $60. Why? How much does it actually cost to manufacture that one connector? Add a small amount extra for R&D recoup (Which, as far as I can tell, has been around since at least the early 1990's - thus meaning not much R&D recoup is actually necessary) and another small amount for profit margins - I'm curious what the cost would actually be in that case.

 

Are they $60 because that's what they charge, or are they $60 because that's what they cost (with a healthy profit margin)?

 

LEMO connectors sound a lot like industrial high grade components. Lots of which are very cheap to manufacture - and yet are still high quality.

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6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

@SandalsWarrior just so you know, 2K and 1080p are essentially the same thing (2048 x 1080 vs 1920 x 1080) - perhaps you meant 1440p instead and said 2K by mistake?

Earlier I swear you said LEMO connectors cost $45 each, now you're saying $60. Let's just say you're correct, and one connector is $60. Why? How much does it actually cost to manufacture that one connector? Add a small amount extra for R&D recoup (Which, as far as I can tell, has been around since at least the early 1990's - thus meaning not much R&D recoup is actually necessary) and another small amount for profit margins - I'm curious what the cost would actually be in that case.

 

Are they $60 because that's what they charge, or are they $60 because that's what they cost (with a healthy profit margin)?

 

LEMO connectors sound a lot like industrial high grade components. Lots of which are very cheap to manufacture - and yet are still high quality.

The prices of them vary - some of the smaller connectors go for $10 up to $60. I've just been giving ball park figures - so for the 26 pin Lemo connector we are looking at around £64 which is $84 (I just looked it up and its more than I expected). RED will obviously get a discount on this as they are buying in "bulk".

 

The LEMO connections has changed quite a big over the years from what I gather and I don't know what the R&D costs are for something like that. You could be correct the R&D might not be very much but equally the R&D could be much higher. But as far as I am aware LEMO just make cable connections which I think we can agree is quite a niche so to turn a profit to make such cables of course there is going to be a big mark-up.. the cost of business!

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36 minutes ago, Dredgy said:

If your job is to make entertaining content and you make entertaining content which doesn't actually misrepresent any facts, you're doing a good job. Considering how open Linus is with his business practices and sense of humour, then it's just the viewers who aren't thinking.

The problem is that a lot of people watch Linus because they think he is a good source of information. Again, read the comments. A lot of them are just cheering on Linus for complaining about the price and hating on RED.

I would argue that he is misrepresenting facts. He might not say anything that is objectively incorrect, but the overall message can be misleading regardless.

Imagine if his Ryzen 7 review had been 15 minutes of him complaining about a bunch of issues, and never brought up any positive thing. Would you say that it was a good, fair and informative video? Would you blame the viewers for getting a skewed view of Ryzen 7, or blame the viewers for "not getting the sarcasm"?

 

Blaming the viewers for not getting that this particular video was just sarcasm when most of his videos seems to be somewhat serious or factual is not fair.

It also comes down to the whole "I was just pretending to be retarded" argument. If you want to act ignorant then don't be surprised or offended when someone takes you seriously and corrects you.

 

43 minutes ago, Dredgy said:

I though the RED rant video was one of Linuses best videos ever, mainly because I could relate to it (as someone who though PCs as a hobby were expensive before switching to cameras, including REDs). It was also hilariously funny, was an incredibly smart way to introduce a not-camera-people audience to the sheer mess of expense that video production is, provided a good look at behind at the scenes and showed off some cool technology and raised legitimate issues about the RED ecosystem.

Are you serious?

That video was a TERRIBLE way of introducing not-camera-people audience to video production. It did not contain any information other than "hey look at how expensive and confusing these things are!". If it was meant to be a good introduction then it needed to contain a lot more info, like what things do, why they may or may not be necessary, what the alternatives are and so on.

If anything, this video will scare people away from the subject because it will seem intimidating to them. A good introduction video makes things seem easy and fun, not hard and expensive.

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5 hours ago, JCBiggs said:

i guess you dont realize how much money linus just dropped to make LTX happen.  Sure they do it for money and views, thats how business work.   but they also do it for the people that watch.   

I did my job.for fun tbh. I was an electrician and I loved it to death. It was just fun routing wires ans seeing it all work in the end. 

 

If you have a YouTube channel you should.be lucky not money hungry

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kppx4bzfAaE probably wont see this but its sam and niko from coridor digital and node shitting on linus after his holly $h!t episodes about the red camersa they bought and the red rocked card, it was just uploaded August 1st. Some of waht they said is that you want reliable storage relating to the red mags, but other stuff was relating to compression ratios and probloems with timeline scrubbintg and the red rocket accelerator not being needed. So they put together a full video and essentially talked crap on the videos about red cameras and the red rocket x.

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RIP night theme users:

59822f50ae136_Screenshot(7).png.3ac8b50ef9746d84da24dd11023d4cf0.png

 

 

anyways this is a repost 

 

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jake paul tried to 'roast' h3h3 by fixing his grammar, which the fix was actually broken english soo

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138 is a good number.

 

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-merged again-

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2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

-merged again-

you fucked up a quote i got from someone on that thread three minutes ago :(

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138 is a good number.

 

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