Cloudy water and some sort of residue?

[Ardox]

I've had my new loop up and running for like 3 or 4 weeks and already had to change a component so I just drained my loop and noticed the water had gone cloudy. While draining i noticed small specs of green stuff in the res too but its almost like it dissolved because i can't seem to see those in the container i drained the loop in to... I would say that i was very thorough when flushing the rads before use. Im using pure distilled water with anti corrosive and anti algea formula. What is this and where do I go from here? Do I just assemble it back together or is there something to worry about? The left bottle in the picture is a new bottle of distilled water and right os the drained water for comparison. 

[W-L]

1 minute ago, Ardox said:

I've had my new loop up and running for like 3 or 4 weeks and already had to change a component so I just drained my loop and noticed the water had gone cloudy. While draining i noticed small specs of green stuff in the res too but its almost like it dissolved because i can't seem to see those in the container i drained the loop in to... I would say that i was very thorough when flushing the rads before use. Im using pure distilled water with anti corrosive and anti algea formula. What is this and where do I go from here? Do I just assemble it back together or is there something to worry about? The left bottle in the picture is a new bottle of distilled water and right os the drained water for comparison.

Was the loop properly preped with cleaning the rads and flushing them before installation, and what is the fluid or biocide that was used within that loop? 

[Enderman]

This is why you should use a premixed fluid that has biocides and anticorrosives, not distilled water.

You will need to disassemble your entire loop and flush every component with tap water and then distilled water before refilling it.

[For Science!]

Maybe some more info about your loops components could help diagnose the problem? I had small green specks come out of my rad during the washing stage. Did you pre-wash with warm water? perhaps there was junk that only dissolved once the system put some heat into the water.

[Ardox]

Actually now that its settled you can see the gunk... 

[Ardox]

Im using all EK fittings, EK gpu Block, EK supremacy evo, EK hard tubing, EK d5 pump + res and EK pe rads.. This is the anti corrosion and anti algea. The entire loop is already disassembled, i just need to know what went wrong and what to do... I have no idea what those are in the water 

 

[Ardox]

And yes i cleaned rads by flushing with warm tap water, then vinegar, then bicarbonate and finally distilled water. The water coming out was clear

[W-L]

3 minutes ago, Ardox said:

And yes i cleaned rads by flushing with warm tap water, then vinegar, then bicarbonate and finally distilled water. The water coming out was clear

As of currently flush out the loop and clean any build up if there is any, as for the biocide was it mixed with the correction ratio. That looks to be a Benzalkonium chloride type chemical as with clear PT nuke which shouldn't have a problem. 

[For Science!]

4 minutes ago, Ardox said:

And yes i cleaned rads by flushing with warm tap water, then vinegar, then bicarbonate and finally distilled water. The water coming out was clear

Sounds like you did everything as per standard protocol (although I would have skipped acid/base wash). Can't give you a verdict on the antimicrobial because I can't read german (?). Also if you have access to a light microscope it may be interesting to look at the cloudy water and see if anything is living (for science!).

[Ardox]

1 minute ago, W-L said:

As of currently flush out the loop and clean any build up if there is any, as for the biocide was it mixed with the correction ratio. That looks to be a Benzalkonium chloride type chemical as with clear PT nuke which shouldn't have a problem. 

 

1 minute ago, For Science! said:

Sounds like you did everything as per standard protocol (although I would have skipped acid/base wash). Can't give you a verdict on the antimicrobial because I can't read german (?). Also if you have access to a light microscope it may be interesting to look at the cloudy water and see if anything is living (for science!).

I literally can't see what should have caused this. How do you suggest I flush the loop before reassembly? Should i set up a temporary loop with just the blocks and see if I get the same reaction? And lastly, what is a proven biocide to use with distilled water and definitely wouldn't cause something like this? Yes, I did use the correct ratio

[For Science!]

Is there anything other than benzotriazole in that concentrate? Quick reading suggests it isn't really famed for its biocidal properties?

The cloudiness reminds me of some of the cultures we work with in the lab

[W-L]

5 minutes ago, Ardox said:

I literally can't see what should have caused this. How do you suggest I flush the loop before reassembly? Should i set up a temporary loop with just the blocks and see if I get the same reaction? And lastly, what is a proven biocide to use with distilled water and definitely wouldn't cause something like this? Yes, I did use the correct ratio

It's very hard to pinpoint the cause exactly but it seems like everything was done correctly. As for flushing take apart the loop and clean out all the rads vigorously as when you assembled the loop and rinse out all the blocks. For refilling depending on what route you want to go a premix usually is a safe bet but if you want to try again with the Benzalkonium chloride get some PH strips and see if it changes rapidly over a short period of time. The fluid should be neutral or slightly basic. 

[For Science!]

6 minutes ago, Ardox said:

 

I literally can't see what should have caused this. How do you suggest I flush the loop before reassembly? Should i set up a temporary loop with just the blocks and see if I get the same reaction? And lastly, what is a proven biocide to use with distilled water and definitely wouldn't cause something like this? Yes, I did use the correct ratio

Maybe consider a pre-mix https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-cryofuel-clear-concentrate-100-ml Which definitely has both anti-corrosives and biocides

[Ardox]

18 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Is there anything other than benzotriazole in that concentrate? Quick reading suggests it isn't really famed for its biocidal properties?

The cloudiness reminds me of some of the cultures we work with in the lab

 

16 minutes ago, W-L said:

It's very hard to pinpoint the cause exactly but it seems like everything was done correctly. As for flushing take apart the loop and clean out all the rads vigorously as when you assembled the loop and rinse out all the blocks. For refilling depending on what route you want to go a premix usually is a safe bet but if you want to try again with the Benzalkonium chloride get some PH strips and see if it changes rapidly over a short period of time. The fluid should be neutral or slightly basic. 

The label doesn't state anything else than the benzotriazole. I really appreciate both of you for helping. I am tired and really frustrated right now. I'll look into it tomorrow and report back how the inside of the cpu block looks like. It's dark right now but it appears like one of the two rads looks different inside, not sure though. 

[Ardox]

Heres an update. This is how my new shiney EK supremacy evo looks like after just a couple of weeks with just distilled water and biocide... What the hell is this stuff? 

[For Science!]

25 minutes ago, Ardox said:

-snip-

 

The only solid conclusion I would draw from this is that your distilled water + benzotriazole mix didn't hold up (as in, after a few weeks it was no longer "just" distilled water +benzotriazole). Does the white gunk wash off? is it slimy? I'm still in the boat that if benzotriazole was the only active ingredient in your loop then your probably didn't have any effective biocide in your loop and that cloudiness is probably some kind of microorganism, and that consequently secreted its usual biological mess (lots of other stuff) which eventually reacted with your metals.

 

You can see in this attached paper that there are plenty bacteria out there that can use benzotriazole as the sole carbon and nitrogen source 2015_1167.pdf. I've also linked in a forum discussion people saying that benzotriazole could make silver kill coil less effective and support algea growth (implying benzotriazole alone is not a good biocide) http://www.overclock.net/t/993624/ek-club/18120

 

I would flush the system really REALLY well, and go with a pre-mix. Your time and your components are expensive, and probably best spend a bit of money on a pre-mix and save yourself some headache.

 

[Ardox]

17 minutes ago, For Science! said:

The only solid conclusion I would draw from this is that your distilled water + benzotriazole mix didn't hold up (as in, after a few weeks it was no longer "just" distilled water +benzotriazole). Does the white gunk wash off? is it slimy? I'm still in the boat that if benzotriazole was the only active ingredient in your loop then your probably didn't have any effective biocide in your loop and that cloudiness is probably some kind of microorganism, and that consequently secreted its usual biological mess (lots of other stuff) which eventually reacted with your metals.

 

You can see in this attached paper that there are plenty bacteria out there that can use benzotriazole as the sole carbon and nitrogen source 2015_1167.pdf. I've also linked in a forum discussion people saying that benzotriazole could make silver kill coil less effective and support algea growth (implying benzotriazole alone is not a good biocide) http://www.overclock.net/t/993624/ek-club/18120

 

I would flush the system really REALLY well, and go with a pre-mix. Your time and your components are expensive, and probably best spend a bit of money on a pre-mix and save yourself some headache.

 

God fking damnit I am sick of this... I assume I have to disassemble my GPU block as well? How do I clean the pump? I can't get in to the pump  One of my rads looks almost greenish inside while the other one looks like copper. How do you proprose I clean out my rads properly? And finally which premix do you recommend? Can you take a look at www.coolerkit.dk since they are the easiest retailer for me to buy from.... Thanks and sorry but I am really getting pissed off with this

[W-L]

1 minute ago, Ardox said:

God fking damnit I am sick of this... I assume I have to disassemble my GPU block as well? How do I clean the pump? I can't get in to the pump  One of my rads looks almost greenish inside while the other one looks like copper. How do you proprose I clean out my rads properly? And finally which premix do you recommend? Can you take a look at www.coolerkit.dk since they are the easiest retailer for me to buy from.... Thanks and sorry but I am really getting pissed off with this

For cleaning the rads if you notice oxidization inside doing a rinse with a solution of diluted vinegar and goving it a dozen or so rinses is a good way to clear anything that may be left inside. For blocks and pumps unless there is noticeable residue/build up a flush will suffice. For premix something like Mayhems X1 is good for a transparent fluid. 

 

 

@For Science!benzotriale is a fair effective biocide there are a lot of fluids that have it as an additive but hard to say why it seemed to just not work in this case. 

[Ardox]

I wouldnt know how algea inside a rad would look like, but what i see almost has a teal look to it, like copper oxidation almost.. It seems like it flakes off when it dries out, like a powder 

[Ardox]

1 hour ago, For Science! said:

The only solid conclusion I would draw from this is that your distilled water + benzotriazole mix didn't hold up (as in, after a few weeks it was no longer "just" distilled water +benzotriazole). Does the white gunk wash off? is it slimy? I'm still in the boat that if benzotriazole was the only active ingredient in your loop then your probably didn't have any effective biocide in your loop and that cloudiness is probably some kind of microorganism, and that consequently secreted its usual biological mess (lots of other stuff) which eventually reacted with your metals.

 

You can see in this attached paper that there are plenty bacteria out there that can use benzotriazole as the sole carbon and nitrogen source 2015_1167.pdf. I've also linked in a forum discussion people saying that benzotriazole could make silver kill coil less effective and support algea growth (implying benzotriazole alone is not a good biocide) http://www.overclock.net/t/993624/ek-club/18120

 

I would flush the system really REALLY well, and go with a pre-mix. Your time and your components are expensive, and probably best spend a bit of money on a pre-mix and save yourself some headache.

 

The white stuff flakes off. I wouldn't know how algae looks like tbh

[Ardox]

As for a new premix, I can get Cryofuel (non concentrate) https://www.coolerkit.dk/shop/ekwb-ek-cryofuel-clear-2587p.html Is this fine you reckon @For Science!  @W-L ?

[For Science!]

I've been running the navy varient for a couple of months now and not had any problems 

[Ardox]

Flushing the rad with tap water right now and this is coming out... No idea what it is but this was definitely not coming out when i initially flushed... Either this is from the other components or it is growing.. 

[Ardox]

[W-L]

2 hours ago, Ardox said:

Looks a little greenish so maybe copper oxide and some growth potentially.