Ryzen build vs. Kaby Lake build: which one would you get?

[maartendc]

Hey guys,

 

Looking to buy a new gaming and production (CAD, game development, 3D modelling) Mini ITX system, based on my 980ti and power supply I already have. Doubting between Kaby Lake or Ryzen.. because Ryzen Mini ITX motherboards are still very hard to find.

 

Comparing these two similar builds, the Intel build is about $75 cheaper for the parts I still need to buy. The memory can be cheaper, because Kaby lake does not care as much as Ryzen about faster memory. DDR4 RAM prices are insane right now. The mobo is also cheaper on the Intel side..

 

But the Ryzen comes with a more decent stock Wraith spire cooler. The intel cooler I might want to upgrade down the line to something quieter, costing another $30 or so.

 

I really want to keep this build as cheap as possible, while not bottlenecking my 980ti for the forseeable future.

I know the AMD build will be better in multithreaded applications, and the Intel potentially better in gaming. Is the AMD build worth the extra $75 though?

 

Intel Build:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($188.55 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI - B250I PRO Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($79.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Team - Dark 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($94.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB Superclocked+ ACX 2.0+ Video Card  (Purchased For $350.00)
Case: Silverstone - Sugo SG13B Mini ITX Tower Case  ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Silverstone - Strider Gold 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply  (Purchased For $95.00)
Total: $948.41
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-10 09:13 EDT-0400

 

AMD Build

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  ($217.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Biostar - X370GTN Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard  ($109.00)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($122.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($94.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB Superclocked+ ACX 2.0+ Video Card  (Purchased For $350.00)
Case: Silverstone - Sugo SG13B Mini ITX Tower Case  ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Silverstone - Strider Gold 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply  (Purchased For $95.00)
Total: $1029.75
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-10 09:17 EDT-0400

 

Any comments on compatibility or component choice are welcome too.

 

Thanks!

[Princess Luna]

As owner of both Kaby Lake and Ryzen my vote goes straight to Ryzen.

[iRileyx]

As you're doing CAD and 3D modelling, i'd favour the Ryzen build.

[slightlyjaded]

As an optimist... There isn't enough data yet.

[maartendc]

Just now, Princess Cadence said:

As owner of both Kaby Lake and Ryzen my vote goes straight to Ryzen.

Thanks. Would you please elaborate? What has your experience been like between both in gaming and other applications? Do you like the Ryzen system for gaming?

[Damascus]

Just now, maartendc said:

Thanks. Would you please elaborate? What has your experience been like between both in gaming and other applications? Do you like the Ryzen system for gaming?

Ryzen. A 1600 will beat a locked i5 in fps minimums, giving a far smoother experience with similar (or better) averages than the i5.  Another factor to consider is that more and more games are coming out that support the extra threads on r5.

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, maartendc said:

Thanks. Would you please elaborate? What has your experience been like between both in gaming and other applications? Do you like the Ryzen system for gaming?

A 1600 will perform better in gaming than a 7500. 

[DocSwag]

Ryzen definitely, but if you can wait until June other mobo manufacturers like gigabyte and asrock have mini itx am4 mobos planned. I've heard bad things about the biostar bios so... If you can wait that'd be better.

[Herman Mcpootis]

6 minutes ago, maartendc said:

 

 

Looking to buy a new gaming and production (CAD, game development, 3D modelling)

no doubt, get the ryzen build. much better for multiasking. 

[TVwazhere]

6 minutes ago, maartendc said:

(CAD, game development, 3D modelling) 

Which CAD programs are you using? Programs like Solidworks and Inventor are actually still heavily single threaded. But since you're not considering something like a 7700k, the 1600 should be better than the 7400 single threaded with an OC, plus will obviously be better at the multi threaded enabled workloads as well.

[The Benjamins]

2 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

Which CAD programs are you using? Programs like Solidworks and Inventor are actually still heavily single threaded. But since you're not considering something like a 7700k, the 1600 should be better than the 7400 single threaded with an OC, plus will obviously be better at the multi threaded enabled workloads as well.

the areas were Solidworks and Inventor are single threaded never becomes a issue. ryzen will be better at simulation and rendering.

 

I used both programs on old i5 systems the only thing that was slow was the GPU for better FPS while modeling complex assemblies. you are better off spending more on RAM and cores then a higher single thread performance. 

[JoostinOnline]

5 minutes ago, YBPT said:

Go with Kaby Lake.  Besides for better single-thread performance, you also get support for more things such as Optane and Thunderbolt.

Optane is completely pointless, and Thunderbolt certainly isn't enough to justify going with Kaby Lake.  Ryzen is a far better choice, even if games aren't optimized for more threads (they probably will be).

[kalnick]

19 minutes ago, maartendc said:

Hey guys,

 

Looking to buy a new gaming and production (CAD, game development, 3D modelling) Mini ITX system, based on my 980ti and power supply I already have. Doubting between Kaby Lake or Ryzen.. because Ryzen Mini ITX motherboards are still very hard to find.

 

Comparing these two similar builds, the Intel build is about $75 cheaper for the parts I still need to buy. The memory can be cheaper, because Kaby lake does not care as much as Ryzen about faster memory. DDR4 RAM prices are insane right now. The mobo is also cheaper on the Intel side..

 

But the Ryzen comes with a more decent stock Wraith spire cooler. The intel cooler I might want to upgrade down the line to something quieter, costing another $30 or so.

 

I really want to keep this build as cheap as possible, while not bottlenecking my 980ti for the forseeable future.

I know the AMD build will be better in multithreaded applications, and the Intel potentially better in gaming. Is the AMD build worth the extra $75 though?

 

Intel Build:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($188.55 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI - B250I PRO Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($79.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Team - Dark 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($94.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB Superclocked+ ACX 2.0+ Video Card  (Purchased For $350.00)
Case: Silverstone - Sugo SG13B Mini ITX Tower Case  ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Silverstone - Strider Gold 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply  (Purchased For $95.00)
Total: $948.41
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-10 09:13 EDT-0400

 

AMD Build

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  ($217.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Biostar - X370GTN Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard  ($109.00)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($122.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($94.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB Superclocked+ ACX 2.0+ Video Card  (Purchased For $350.00)
Case: Silverstone - Sugo SG13B Mini ITX Tower Case  ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Silverstone - Strider Gold 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply  (Purchased For $95.00)
Total: $1029.75
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-10 09:17 EDT-0400

 

Any comments on compatibility or component choice are welcome too.

 

Thanks!

 

Ryzen would be the best value for your money.

 

[TVwazhere]

Just now, The Benjamins said:

the areas were Solidworks and Inventor are single threaded never becomes a issue. ryzen will be better at simulation and rendering.

 

I used both programs on old i5 systems the only thing that was slow was the GPU for better FPS while modeling complex assemblies. you are better off spending more on RAM and cores then a higher single thread performance. 

Inventor doesnt give a s%!& what gpu you use, and Solidworks prefers workstation cards but the low end cards are all you need (basically 1060/480 equivalents)

 

Inventor benchmark thread

Solidworks Score thread

 

Inventor and solidworks are (by my own estimate) 70% single threaded. Part modeling, assembly, drawing, the majority of what these programs do are single threaded. The only multi threaded enabled parts are things like rendering, stress analysis and flow calculations, which if you use those great. Even large assembles (1000+ unique parts) though perform better with a higher core speed rather than more cores.

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, YBPT said:

Optane is far from pointless, and I find Thunderbolt to be extremely useful.

Pretty much every build is going to have Windows running on a SSD, and Optane doesn't improve speeds for an SSD.

 

As for Thunderbolt, it will be useful in the future, but right now nothing is even making use of the USB3.0 bandwidth, unless you count external GPU's.  And that's kind of pointless when you've got PCIe slots.

[The Benjamins]

2 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

Inventor doesnt give a s%!& what gpu you use, and Solidworks prefers workstation cards but the low end cards are all you need (basically 1060/480 equivalents)

 

Inventor benchmark thread

Solidworks Score thread

 

Inventor and solidworks are (by my own estimate) 70% single threaded. Part modeling, assembly, drawing, the majority of what these programs do are single threaded. The only multi threaded enabled parts are things like rendering, stress analysis and flow calculations, which if you use those great. Even large assembles (1000+ unique parts) though perform better with a higher core speed rather than more cores.

Ya I know about the GPU part, (one job the machine was using intels iGPU and the FPS was not great in assemblies)

 

I never hit the wall of single threaded performance in those programs, and his budget is about $200 for the CPU so I still feel R5 is better. unless he is doing some crazy assemblies it really doesn't matter.

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, YBPT said:

I personally use TB3 on my laptop quite a lot.  If you don't care about speed, the versatility of the port alone is a significant reason to have it.

We aren't talking about a laptop.  This is a desktop.  You don't need to buy dongles, because it has PCIe slots.  Have you ever built a computer?

[TVwazhere]

4 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

Ya I know about the GPU part, (one job the machine was using intels iGPU and the FPS was not great in assemblies)

 

I never hit the wall of single threaded performance in those programs, and his budget is about $200 for the CPU so I still feel R5 is better. unless he is doing some crazy assemblies it really doesn't matter.

In the two CPU's hes looking at, I agree the R5 is better. Can be overclocked to get higher single thread performance plus that 30% will be a significant boost over the 4 core 4 thread option. 

 

Trust me when you're building a 1000+ FRC Robot in CAD using locked i5's it gets rough

 

iGPU's suck for modeling! I'm sorry you had to suffer  

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, YBPT said:

I have, yes.

Then you should understand that PCIe slots are better than Thunderbolt.  Because a laptop doesn't have them, Thunderbolt 3 is nice, but it's not necessary for a desktop.

 

As far as speed, data transfer over Thunderbolt 3 port and a regular USB3.0 port are the same.  Theoretical bandwidth doesn't matter if other components will bottleneck it.  It's why no hard drive runs faster over SATA-III than it does over SATA-I.   Even though SATA-III has 4 times the theoretical bandwidth, no hard drive can transfer data fast enough to even reach the SATA-I cap.

[The Benjamins]

3 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

In the two CPU's hes looking at, I agree the R5 is better. Can be overclocked to get higher single thread performance plus that 30% will be a significant boost over the 4 core 4 thread option. 

 

Trust me when you're building a 1000+ FRC Robot in CAD using locked i5's it gets rough

 

iGPU's suck for modeling! I'm sorry you had to suffer  

ya I get it, but most of the time people here will not get past 50ish parts.

 

ya the iGPU suck but at least at the time it was very small parts and assemblies so it wasn't bad. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, YBPT said:

They serve a different purpose.  PCIe cards are for internal expansions, as TB is for external expansions, data transfer, video....

For the billionth time, you don't need external expansions on a desktop.

Just now, YBPT said:

Regarding speed, a hard drive may not support TB's speeds, but an SSD can be faster than USB 3.1 gen 2.  The bandwidth also matters when connecting multiple devices to that one port.

Maybe if you bought two high-end NVMe SSD's, one for your computer and another to carry around.  Enclosures still bottleneck speeds, and that's just a ridiculous amount of money to spend anyway.  You're talking about impractical situations.

 

Thunderbolt has its uses, but it's not worth heavily sacrificing performance of the overall system.

[79wjd]

40 minutes ago, YBPT said:

Go with Kaby Lake.  Besides for better single-thread performance, you also get support for more things such as Optane and Thunderbolt.

An R5 1600 @ 4ghz actually has better single threaded performance than i5-7500 @ 3.6ghz. Kaby Lake has an approximatley 7% IPC lead and the 1600 will be clocked approximatley 10% higher.

 

32 minutes ago, YBPT said:

For gaming, it's better to have superior single and quad-core performance, as that's all most games use.  Even quad-core speeds don't matter nearly as much as single, so obviously having more cores doesn't really affect gaming for the time being,

An R5 1400 @4ghz shits on a 7500. Just look at the minimums. 

[ashypanda]

most intel motherboards don't even come with thunderbolt, and the ones which do support it require a PCI-E expansion card any way.

 

OP you've got another vote for the ryzen build at that level the extra threads are a no brainer especially considering what you're doing with the system

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, YBPT said:

They can come in handy if you need that expansion to be portable and easy to quickly move between computers.

For purposes such as content creation, having an external SSD is extremely useful.  Yes, they're expensive and there aren't many that support TB3 for the time being, but having portable high-speed drives is a great convenience.

 

You aren't heavily sacrificing performance...

8 threads vs 4 threads  Unlocked vs locked.

 

And you're missing the point.  You need an internal drive that can support speeds over 10Gbps.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, YBPT said:

...which for gaming makes no difference.

Yes it does, just look at those minimums. 

On 5/9/2017 at 7:16 AM, djdwosk97 said:

 

Quote

He plans on using stock coolers for the time being, so he won't get much overclocking done.

The 1600 stock cooler is pretty decent.