UPDATE: LAUNCHED OFFICIALLY, REVIEWS ARE OUT. The RX5xx lineup has leaked in its entirety, launching April 18th (Polaris Refresh)

[LienusLateTips]

5 minutes ago, YoloSwag said:

Tell me how. I needs to knowws.

 

If its on your computer, press choose files, and if its another website, you press insert other media, insert image from URL

[nephilim2]

8 hours ago, MoonSpot said:

Shit.  Wow, yea "Dreams" is certainly the best word you could have chosen for a 4+ SMT core @4GHz /w RX580 iGPU using HBM.  We'll see, but I'd guess RX560 equivalent GPU perf would be as good as it'll get on their most gaming centric APU SKUs.  Don't see HBM being a thing any time soon for APUs, though I'd assume they'd benefit wildly if they had such on SOC memory.  I suspect hearing what something like that would cost the consumer today would be the sort of thing nightmares are made of.

 

Wah wah wah waaaaaahhhh.

Water cooling is still superior though.

  Reveal hidden contents

*bites fist* Good grief is it ever superior.  *drools*

Why not? Even an I7 4790's CPU cores alone can saturate a 4096-bit HBM2 bus (1TB/s).

 

256GFlops * 4bytes/float = 1.024TB/s, not that you'd ever use a CPU for doing raw linear reductions, but the point stands. And once you involve the iGPU, 24*8*2*1.3*10^9 = 499.2GFlops, so you've roughly tripled your bandwidth demand at that point.

[YoloSwag]

Just now, JDE said:

 

If its on your computer, press choose files, and if its another website, you press insert other media, insert image from URL

I did it with the URL thing it doesn't load for me, when i click the submit button or okay or yes, it doesn't work.

Also, my internet or PC doesn't like uploading to LTT for some reason. It always stops somewhere.

[Misanthrope]

It seems like AMD it's just a very delicate balance act: Before the CPUs were crap and the GPUs were competitive, almost on par with Nvidia.

 

Now their CPUs are competitive, almost on par with Intel and it seems like their GPUs will now turn into crap 

[MoonSpot]

42 minutes ago, nephilim2 said:

Why not? Even an I7 4790's CPU cores alone can saturate a 4096-bit HBM2 bus (1TB/s).

 

256GFlops * 4bytes/float = 1.024TB/s, not that you'd ever use a CPU for doing raw linear reductions, but the point stands. And once you involve the iGPU, 24*8*2*1.3*10^9 = 499.2GFlops, so you've roughly tripled your bandwidth demand at that point.

The expense is why I doubt it, the chip would be ginormous..  Frankly, where the hell are they supposed to physically put all this shit on the chip for an AM4 socket?  Maybe with a couple generations of refinements, but I'll not be holding my breath.  Especially for the wish-list APU specs previously mentioned.

[kalnick]

10 hours ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

Fair enough  

Everyone who uses a GT730/620/740/710 ect. ect and AMD old equivalents can rejoice now! 

 

On a side note, why would you have X99/X299/Ryzen and not have a higher end Radeon/GFE card or a firepro/quadro? o_O 

People who buy R3 or R5 1400 for internet machines or htpcs,  oems  would have something "new" and cheap from AMD to partner with a new R3, or R5 1400.

 

If Vega is the high end beast it is rumored to be these cards could be positioned nicely bellow it allowing them to perhaps charge a bit more of a premium for Vega. I could also see the 550 being a nice low profile htpc card possibly as well depending on the temps

 

I don't think it would TitanXp type of premium but maybe in the 1080/1070 price range.

[AlTech]

11 hours ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

That's like asking what a refresh/rebrand is  

Technically no but naming wise, yes as a refresh after all is the manufacturer improving their process and basically provide the same but better refined products. 

 

It will be like the 290X->390X, higher clock speeds, slightly lower power consumption. 

I'm hoping for lower pricing since 290X to 390X yielded a lower price tag.

[Fonzie92]

I bought an RX 480 4gb OC'd 2 months ago for like 160$ on sale via NewEgg. I do 1080p gaming and most games 60+fps

 

Worth it to upgrade or no?

[Jito463]

21 minutes ago, Fonzie92 said:

I bought an RX 480 4gb OC'd 2 months ago for like 160$ on sale via NewEgg. I do 1080p gaming and most games 60+fps

 

Worth it to upgrade or no?

I would say no, since these cards are basically a refinement of what you already have.  It's the same reason I never bothered to replace my R9 390 when the 400 series came out.  There wasn't enough of an improvement to justify the cost.

 

Personally, I don't recommend upgrading less often than every other generation (e.g. I had a 7850 before, I skipped the 200 series and got a 390, now I've skipped the 400 series and will be going with a 500/Vega series, etc).  There's no reason I can see to justify changing cards every generation, unless you have money to burn and always want the latest and greatest.

[Fonzie92]

1 hour ago, Jito463 said:

I would say no, since these cards are basically a refinement of what you already have.  It's the same reason I never bothered to replace my R9 390 when the 400 series came out.  There wasn't enough of an improvement to justify the cost.

 

Personally, I don't recommend upgrading less often than every other generation (e.g. I had a 7850 before, I skipped the 200 series and got a 390, now I've skipped the 400 series and will be going with a 500/Vega series, etc).  There's no reason I can see to justify changing cards every generation, unless you have money to burn and always want the latest and greatest.

Thank you. 

[Valentyn]

5 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

It seems like AMD it's just a very delicate balance act: Before the CPUs were crap and the GPUs were competitive, almost on par with Nvidia.

 

Now their CPUs are competitive, almost on par with Intel and it seems like their GPUs will now turn into crap 

We know AMD have a stronger Polaris part. They can supply the Xbox with  40CU part that has 326GB/s bandwidth, and the Dev kit has 44CU.

 

This while the 480 and now 580 is still 36CU,  and significantly less memory bandwidth.

 

They're in a similar spot as with Apple (better binned power, and more stream processors on the 460) last year. All the best binned and quality chips are going to a contract partner and they can't supply it to the desktop. 

 

Just think how awesome the 580 would be with 40-44CU, that 384bit bus and 326GB/s bandwidth. It would actually be around GTX 1070 performance, with more bandwidth than even the 1080.

 

Then the current 480 could be refreshed into the 570.

 

The entire lineup would not only look more attractive but be much better performance wise and won't suffer from this public backlash. 

[alphaproject]

Man...if only one day I could own that beautiful RX 550 one day...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Said no one ever.

[Trixanity]

16 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

We know AMD have a stronger Polaris part. They can supply the Xbox with  40CU part that has 326GB/s bandwidth, and the Dev kit has 44CU.

 

This while the 480 and now 580 is still 36CU,  and significantly less memory bandwidth.

 

They're in a similar spot as with Apple (better binned power, and more stream processors on the 460) last year. All the best binned and quality chips are going to a contract partner and they can't supply it to the desktop. 

 

Just think how awesome the 580 would be with 40-44CU, that 384bit bus and 326GB/s bandwidth. It would actually be around GTX 1070 performance, with more bandwidth than even the 1080.

 

Then the current 480 could be refreshed into the 570.

 

The entire lineup would not only look more attractive but be much better performance wise and won't suffer from this public backlash. 

The Xbox chip is not a Polaris GPU nor is it an off-the-shelf GPU. It's a custom chip (it's a SoC even) so it can have whatever specifications the customer desires and that AMD can provide. The customer pays for it, so AMD doesn't have to worry about a thing.

 

Money is a limiting factor. They can design a chip with more CUs than that (like Vega for example). Problem is it takes a lot of time and money to get a new chip to production or onto shelves even.

 

Even Nvidia doesn't really design more than like 5 chips for each generation. Problem is AMD is limited to 3 chips with the 500 series. 

 

The whole Apple thing is an entirely different scenario. They made a large order for a particular performance level and price which was why they got binned chips.

 

If AMD gets their finances in order this year through Vega and Zen, then we might just see AMD expand their lineup with more chips - maybe even a true R390X successor but with Vega IP blocks and a narrower 384-bit memory bus.

[TheRandomness]

Just saying to everyone who hasn't seen yet, the 580 scores 6880 in Firestrike Extreme. 

[SammoFS]

My opinion:

OFDJSOPIDFHGIH OMG YEESSS A NEW CARD I MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET

I hope rx550 is cheap

[Valentyn]

1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

The Xbox chip is not a Polaris GPU nor is it an off-the-shelf GPU. It's a custom chip (it's a SoC even) so it can have whatever specifications the customer desires and that AMD can provide.

It's already been stated several times that's it's a Polaris derived GCN core, it's even listed in the specs for it. This has also been in the works for well over two years. Meaning if AMD had the manufacturing capability for mass production they could bring out a Desktop part using this Polaris core.

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/57014/project-scorpio-jaguar-cpu-polaris-gpu-12gb-memory/index.html

 

 

[Trixanity]

57 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

It's already been stated several times that's it's a Polaris derived GCN core, it's even listed in the specs for it. This has also been in the works for well over two years. Meaning if AMD had the manufacturing capability for mass production they could bring out a Desktop part using this Polaris core.

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/57014/project-scorpio-jaguar-cpu-polaris-gpu-12gb-memory/index.html

 

 

It's a custom chip. It may primarily be using Polaris IP blocks but it's up to AMD and Microsoft to work that out. The PS4 Pro already uses stuff from Vega (in the same way Xbox One S uses the display controller from Polaris), so it would be surprising if it was straight up Polaris for the Xbox. The spec list isn't even complete. It's just the bare minimum that Microsoft let slip and some of it looks like speculation based on that.

 

It isn't that simple. This GPU was built specifically for this SoC. They would have to extract the GPU from this, then work on tailoring it for an actual SKU and then they have to retool it for GloFo. This would be a costly affair and would take months. If it was a mere drag and drop scenario, then they would do it already.

 

It's not that AMD is incapable of doing a hypothetical RX590. They just don't have the resources to do this right now. So what RTG have done is tweak Polaris 10 into Polaris 20 and get a mass market Polaris 12 out while finishing Vega.

 

Besides the upgrade would be fairly small.

They could just as well build something with 3000+ stream processors from the get go.

They also need to do more than mere CU upgrades. Adding more ROPs would be prudent and widening the memory bus is a start.

[Misanthrope]

4 hours ago, Valentyn said:

We know AMD have a stronger Polaris part. They can supply the Xbox with  40CU part that has 326GB/s bandwidth, and the Dev kit has 44CU.

 

This while the 480 and now 580 is still 36CU,  and significantly less memory bandwidth.

 

They're in a similar spot as with Apple (better binned power, and more stream processors on the 460) last year. All the best binned and quality chips are going to a contract partner and they can't supply it to the desktop. 

 

Just think how awesome the 580 would be with 40-44CU, that 384bit bus and 326GB/s bandwidth. It would actually be around GTX 1070 performance, with more bandwidth than even the 1080.

 

Then the current 480 could be refreshed into the 570.

 

The entire lineup would not only look more attractive but be much better performance wise and won't suffer from this public backlash. 

 

I think a max polaris might get to Fury X levels which is a bit below or above the 1070 depending on the game and that would still leave them with jackshit to compete with Nvidia's other 2 tiers.

 

 

So that's kinda nice but useless. AMD desperately needs Vega as it's very close to coming out as a useless product that would pale in comparison to Nvidia since it's so delayed it will have to compete against Volta.

[AlTech]

7 hours ago, Fonzie92 said:

I bought an RX 480 4gb OC'd 2 months ago for like 160$ on sale via NewEgg. I do 1080p gaming and most games 60+fps

 

Worth it to upgrade or no?

no.

[Valentyn]

7 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

 

I think a max polaris might get to Fury X levels which is a bit below or above the 1070 depending on the game and that would still leave them with jackshit to compete with Nvidia's other 2 tiers.

 

 

So that's kinda nice but useless. AMD desperately needs Vega as it's very close to coming out as a useless product that would pale in comparison to Nvidia since it's so delayed it will have to compete against Volta.

How is it useless? The 580( 40-44CU ) competing with 1070, and then they have Big and Small Vega to compete with the rest up top.

Remember Vega is coming in around 2-3 months, not another year. So if they actually pulled out a 580 with 44CU at around Fury X- 1070 it would allow them to cover all the basis really well.

 

If Vega is around 1080-TX performance that leaves a nasty gap between the current 480/580 and Vega/higher end Pascal.
 

They really need to fill that "sweet" spot between highend and mid range.

[Notional]

Hmm they talk about third gen 14nm FF process node for higher clockrate. But it's only 1340mhz on the 580? That's disappointing.

[Misanthrope]

6 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

How is it useless? The 580( 40-44CU ) competing with 1070, and then they have Big and Small Vega to compete with the rest up top.

Remember Vega is coming in around 2-3 months, not another year. So if they actually pulled out a 580 with 44CU at around Fury X- 1070 it would allow them to cover all the basis really well.

 

If Vega is around 1080-TX performance that leaves a nasty gap between the current 480/580 and Vega/higher end Pascal.
 

They really need to fill that "sweet" spot between highend and mid range.

No, they really do not. They need to be far more aggressive with high end parts. AMD tried positioning themselves as the cheaper "bang for the buck" alternative for years and most of the time it only serves to put a stigma as the cheap, lower quality brand.

 

Yes you make the most money at those lower end markets but customer perception matters a lot and they need big wins to change that perception of the off brand alternative and they won't be getting that with just more mid range parts. This is a subject almost everybody on here disagrees with me so no surprises there but I haven't seen a compelling reason to believe customers will be cautious and objective when purchasing, on the contrary they go for the perception of luxury and high quality brands. 

 

AMD being the best kept secret for geeks like the Level 1 guys is kinda useless since that doesn't actually bring in sales and you end up with terrible market share and AMD effectively selling a lot less parts of products that are clearly superior to Nvidia's (i.e. 470 vs 1060 3b)

[Valentyn]

28 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

 on the contrary they go for the perception of luxury and high quality brands. 

 

AMD being the best kept secret for geeks like the Level 1 guys is kinda useless since that doesn't actually bring in sales and you end up with terrible market share and AMD effectively selling a lot less parts of products that are clearly superior to Nvidia's (i.e. 470 vs 1060 3b)

 

Yet last year alone AMD not only managed to gain 9% market share with Polaris, but kept it. Despite the GTX 1050's 1060's, and the rest being released.

It's working, and the highend isn't the only thing that's going to get them money, and brand recognition.

They need that spot between 480 and GTX 1080 locked up. AMD's strategy in the past of smaller dies worked really well, and only when they tried to move away from that did they lose market share; as many of their large dies couldn't be cut down well enough for the mid-end.

Now it seems they actually have the tech for 2-3 very different price segments. Polaris 36-44CU parts to lock up the mid end, Polaris 11 for low end, and Vega 10 and 11 for lower High and Top High-end.

I think's it's a massive mistake ignoring the upper mid-end where the GTX 1070 is currently sitting.
 

A Proper RX 580 that featured 40 or 44 CU's would really help them; and it'll only help their view from Consumers.
 

What do we have now? People calling the 500 series the Rebrandeons, when they could have brought out a 40CU part as the 580, and simply refreshed the rest of the 400 series with a step down in naming. It would look far better.

Then Vega comes in for everything above it, otherwise we have a massive gap in their line up.

RX480/580 and suddenly Vega. Mid end and then high end. 

[Misanthrope]

9% out of how much overall?

[cj09beira]

19 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

No, they really do not. They need to be far more aggressive with high end parts. AMD tried positioning themselves as the cheaper "bang for the buck" alternative for years and most of the time it only serves to put a stigma as the cheap, lower quality brand.

 

Yes you make the most money at those lower end markets but customer perception matters a lot and they need big wins to change that perception of the off brand alternative and they won't be getting that with just more mid range parts. This is a subject almost everybody on here disagrees with me so no surprises there but I haven't seen a compelling reason to believe customers will be cautious and objective when purchasing, on the contrary they go for the perception of luxury and high quality brands. 

 

AMD being the best kept secret for geeks like the Level 1 guys is kinda useless since that doesn't actually bring in sales and you end up with terrible market share and AMD effectively selling a lot less parts of products that are clearly superior to Nvidia's (i.e. 470 vs 1060 3b)

they are in a bad spot, because of lack of funds, but with vega and zen the will probably turn the ship around.

the real problem is amd in the past had great products that were a lot better than nvideas in every single way (power, perf, and price) but nvidea still out sold them by a lot.

bringing awareness to the amd product line is very hard. most consumers just ask whats the nvidea card in this price range they dont even check amds products and compare them 

and if they don't do that how can amd compete.

i saw a similar thing happening in Africa where chinese SHIT flooded the market and the people there who are really poor just keep buying this shit over and over because its cheap but its always breaking which leads them to buy them again, the thing is that a quality product was only 10-20% more expensive in the first place and after a year would have paid it self because it would still be working.

EXTRA: Real life example: my father had a car shop of sorts where he would rebuild engine blocks, my father also sold pistons and cylinder sleeves that came from Europe,

these parts where around 15% more expensive than the ones sold by the chinese (and other counterfeits) but lasted 4 times more time in the engine, with chinese parts the engines would need repairs in less than a year, while with quality parts the engine could last 4-5 years, most still bought chinese parts :-(