[Update: Processor and Internal Assembly] Xbox Project Scorpio Revealed - Mid cycle 4K console revolution?

[Vode]

46 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

With the exception with Halo your better off upgrading from the 1050ti and getting a GPU that can actually push 4k for the price of the Xbox ♏.

I already have a 4k monitor and gaming rig along with the Xbox at my couch. X5670 with R9 Fury... Waiting for Vega then will decide if 1080Ti is the better option or not. No need to convert me to the glorious PC master race. Haha

 

PC in my sig is my workstation at my desk and it's built to be quiet.

 

I want the Xbox not only for Halo but Forza as well, since Forza 6 on PC doesn't have full tracks and cars.  

 

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

Not every game needs to run at blazing fast FPSes. Is running Civ 6 or some turn based JRPG at 200 FPS going to improve your KD ratio?

[MadyTehWolfie]

Just now, Vode said:

I already have a 4k monitor and gaming rig along with the Xbox at my couch. X5670 with R9 Fury... Waiting for Vega then will decide if 1080Ti is the better option or not. No need to convert me to the glorious PC master race. Haha

 

PC in my sig is my workstation at my desk and it's built to be quiet.

 

I want the Xbox not only for Halo but Forza as well, since Forza 6 on PC doesn't have full tracks and cars.  

 

 

Better off with a Xbox one S then a ♏ for just two games if you ask me.

[The Benjamins]

2 minutes ago, Vode said:

I already have a 4k monitor and gaming rig along with the Xbox at my couch. X5670 with R9 Fury... Waiting for Vega then will decide if 1080Ti is the better option or not. No need to convert me to the glorious PC master race. Haha

 

PC in my sig is my workstation at my desk and it's built to be quiet.

 

I want the Xbox not only for Halo but Forza as well, since Forza 6 on PC doesn't have full tracks and cars.  

 

 

I am so glad that xbox anywhere exist and upcoming Forza games will us it. It is nice to see Halo Wars 2 is on PC, and just hoping to see upcoming Halo games come too.

[PCGuy_5960]

16 hours ago, Citadelen said:

Um.

Yes, yes it does. 

Lol, no. Watch this:

CPU load stays the same regardless of the resolution.

16 hours ago, Not_Sean said:

Please stop quoting PCGUY he really seems to be making this up as he goes. 

What did I make up? Can you please clarify?

16 hours ago, Citadelen said:

It's like talking to a Patrick that doesn't know anything.

Why?

[Citadelen]

1 hour ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

While it says 5-6TF let's remember it's a AMD GPU and when compared to Nvidia their cards have had higher TF but less actual performance in FPS. TF=/= how much fps you'll be getting.

That's a very crude way of looking at it, the reason it is that way in pre-GCN 5.0 chips is because of the way the way the GPU processes commands and instructions, there are frequently bubbles in the pipeline. With consoles AMD gives developers near complete control of the hardware, allowing for commands to be executed asynchronously, or as we all know it asynchronous compute, that, and the way the game handles CPU draw calls and game logic, are the reason why games such as Deus Ex: Mankind Divided show the Fury X beating out a 1080. 

 

@randomhkkid AMD does not have bad DX11 drivers, threading is just handled differently to Nvidia. In Nvidias drivers there is a software scheduler which is nothing short of a marvale of exceptional software coding, it splits up the work on the main worker thread if the CPU and applies it to the other threads. AMD cards don't like this, as they have a very powerful hardware scheduler which inherently handles schulding differently. It must be pointed out that one of the reasons Nvidia does badly in some DX12 titles is because of their software schudler, it spends time separating the work on the main CPU thread when it's not needed, as DX12 is very well threaded already. This unnecessary splitting of work induces an overhead, meanwhile AMDs schudler is designed to be ordered around by the game, and not the driver.

So in conclusion Nvidia's drivers allows a game to become multi-threaded at a driver level by splitting work, this increases driver overhead, this is very beneficial in DX11 but can be detrimental in DX12. AMD has a lower driver overhead because schulding is handled by the hardware schudler in the GPU, this is a good way to handle it in low level APIs and if the game is programmed to keep draw calls on the main thread but split game logic up onto the other threads. Neither are "bad", ways of doing it, just different, Nvidia's is more widely programmed for though.

 

@PCGuy_5960 You changed your point several times earlier but kept to the point you changed to stubbornly. 

 

 

[PCGuy_5960]

1 minute ago, Citadelen said:

PCGuy_5960 You changed your point several times earlier but kept to the point you changed to stubbornly. 

Damn it! You noticed. Jk 

I know, but I did say that what I meant to say was that CPU load stays the same regardless of the resolution. And I kept to it because it is true.

[Vode]

2 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Better off with a Xbox one S then a ♏ for just two games if you ask me.

Probably yes, but when are new hardware purchases ever smart?

 

Then again >50% of my gaming time is on those 2 games..

[MadyTehWolfie]

5 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

That's a very crude way of looking at it, the reason it is that way in pre-GCN 5.0 chips is because of the way the way the GPU processes commands and instructions, there are frequently bubbles in the pipeline. With consoles AMD gives developers near complete control of the hardware, allowing for commands to be executed asynchronously, or as we all know it asynchronous compute, that, and the way the game handles CPU draw calls and game logic, are the reason why games such as Deus Ex: Mankind Divided show the Fury X beating out a 1080. 

 

@randomhkkid AMD does not have bad DX11 drivers, threading is just handled differently to Nvidia. In Nvidias drivers there is a software scheduler which is nothing short of a marvale of exceptional software coding, it splits up the work on the main worker thread if the CPU and applies it to the other threads. AMD cards don't like this, as they have a very powerful hardware scheduler which inherently handles schulding differently. It must be pointed out that one of the reasons Nvidia does badly in some DX12 titles is because of their software schudler, it spends time separating the work on the main CPU thread when it's not needed, as DX12 is very well threaded already. This unnecessary splitting of work induces an overhead, meanwhile AMDs schudler is designed to be ordered around by the game, and not the driver.

So in conclusion Nvidia's drivers allows a game to become multi-threaded at a driver level by splitting work, this increases driver overhead, this is very beneficial in DX11 but can be detrimental in DX12. AMD has a lower driver overhead because schulding is handled by the hardware schudler in the GPU, this is a good way to handle it in low level APIs and if the game is programmed to keep draw calls on the main thread but split game logic up onto the other threads. Neither are "bad", ways of doing it, just different, Nvidia's is more widely programmed for though.

 

@PCGuy_5960 You changed your point several times earlier but kept to the point you changed to stubbornly. 

 

 

Crude yes. Only way I could put it since I don't really look indepth at these things. Doesn't make my overly simplistic way of explaining it not true in most situations though. Either way I put my money on ♏ matching a 970/1060 at most.

[MadyTehWolfie]

Am I the only one who refused to see the Xbox scorpio as a scorpion and not ♏. Heh Xbox ♏ get your horoscope today.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Am I the only one who refused to see the Xbox scorpio as a scorpion and not ♏. Heh Xbox ♏ get your horoscope today.

I see it as an XBO with a hyper 212 evo sticking out of the top.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, WMGroomAK said:

This has been the thing that has been bugging me about the whole spec release.  Sure it looks like a modified RX480, however even the 480 struggles on a lot of titles to reach 30 FPS average on 4K resolution.  Makes me think that Microsoft is going to have Game Devs drop some of the graphic setting options down in order to achieve the 4K 60FPS.  

Console games are optimised way better than PC. You can expect much more performance than a RX480 in Scorpio. Probaly around 30%+.

[Ashiella]

1 hour ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Not every game needs to run at blazing fast FPSes. Is running Civ 6 or some turn based JRPG at 200 FPS going to improve your KD ratio?

Yes.

[Techicolors]

6 hours ago, Ashiella said:

They need like quality balanced and fast in the options. Fast is 1080p 144hz, balanced 1440p 75-90hz and quality 4K 60hz 

funny enough the PS4 Pro already does this, though not at more than 60hz. for example the game Nioh has several options to favor...

Quote

 

Player choice between 3 modes:

Action - 1080p/60

Movie - 4K/ 30

Variable Mixed Mode - up to 1800p/ 30-60fp

Dynamic 4K in movie modes to maintain framerates

 

or FFXV...

Quote

Choice of Resolution Mode: 4K @ 30fps or Lite Mode: 1080p @ 40-60fps with higher quality lighting and shadows, texture filtering, LOD and draw distance

the last of us

Quote

Choice between 4K/30 or 1800p/60, HDR, added detail, better lighting and draw distance

uncharted 4 has two modes for SP and MP

Quote

 

1440p HDR support. 30fps single-player, 1080p/60fps multiplayer.

 

 

 

http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/PS4_Pro_Game_Upgrades_and_Differences

[N3v3r3nding_N3wb]

Curiosity question: Why must consoles use so much memory for their OS?  Full Windows, which had way more functionality, runs on way less than 4 GB.  Even with Steam open, it doesn't really get close to 4 GB utilized.

[randomhkkid]

22 hours ago, matrix07012 said:

It says that it can play games at 4k at the same frame rate the Xbox one can play them.

Also the GTX 1070 benchmark was run at ultra settings, but console games never run at ultra settings.

 

I still don't think you've actually read the articles.

Direct quote from the article stating 4K 60fps at Xbone settings not framerate

Quote

Forza Motorsport. 4K, 60fps, Xbox One quality settings with 4K assets. GPU utilisation is at 66.19 per cent, meaning there's a huge amount of overhead left over for improving visuals still further.

Another direct quote from a 'related links' article about comparison to a GTX1070. Note the mention of equivalence in settings

Quote

...some evidence that Scorpio's true 4K performance could pose a challenge to the likes of Nvidia's GTX 1070 and AMD's Fury X-class hardware. I've seen Microsoft's new console running a Forza Motorsport 6-level experience locked to 4K60 on the equivalent to PC's ultra settings...

It mentions code may not be identical but the settings are, optimisation is par for the course in consoles so the fact that it can run in the same ballpark to the 1070 stands.

[randomhkkid]

19 minutes ago, N3v3r3nding_N3wb said:

Curiosity question: Why must consoles use so much memory for their OS?  Full Windows, which had way more functionality, runs on way less than 4 GB.  Even with Steam open, it doesn't really get close to 4 GB utilized.

AFAIK it's more of a buffer. The likelihood is that the whole 4GB isn't actually required but it ensures that whenever you hit the button to view the dashboard it can be pulled from RAM instantly, also things like Game DVR which they seem to be pushing pretty heavily this time may need that RAM as a buffer before writing to disk at 4K60p.

 

And unlike a PC I guess people expect a smooth native UX so Microsoft/Sony overprovision to ensure it happens regardless of game

*bracing for hate*

[N3v3r3nding_N3wb]

11 hours ago, randomhkkid said:

--SNIP--

Ah, that makes sense.  Thank you.

[AshleyAshes]

One thing I think we can all be sure of in this discussion is that console specs matter.

 

Like how the superior 360 and PS3 outsold the Wii!  Oh wait...

The PSP's victory over the block Nintendo DS?  Oh wait again..

But then the Vita stomped the 3DS?  Okay, hang on, we need to keep waiting.

The Sega Master System was technically superior to the Nintendo Entertainment System and... right, right... Wait.

The classic Xbox?  That thing was EPIC at the time.  Er, and it sold 1/6th as many units as the PS2 which, hardware wise, was inferior in every single respect to the Xbox.

The Sega Saturn though!  That outclassed the PlayStation in most ways and... well... I guess it did OKAY in Japan but the PlayStation won out it in all markets and it did so poorly in North America, there are probably people in this forum who'd have to look up the wikipedia article for the Saturn to even know what it was.

 

Console.  Specs.  Matter.

[atrash]

21 hours ago, randomhkkid said:

AFAIK it's more of a buffer. The likelihood is that the whole 4GB isn't actually required but it ensures that whenever you hit the button to view the dashboard it can be pulled from RAM instantly, also things like Game DVR which they seem to be pushing pretty heavily this time may need that RAM as a buffer before writing to disk at 4K60p.

 

And unlike a PC I guess people expect a smooth native UX so Microsoft/Sony overprovision to ensure it happens regardless of game

*bracing for hate*

and it's not just the DVR function. Microsoft is also sorta pushing for XB1 users to stream to Beam which is a whole nother' load for the system besides gaming at 4K.

[randomhkkid]

New update on the latest 2 articles from DF in OP