Microsoft shares what it collectes in Windows 10 Telemetry data

[captain_to_fire]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I don't know why people think that being a moderator automatically makes them an expert.   Also there is a whole team of moderators, so unless people think they have a secret agenda with the sole purpose of singling a user out, it would be hard for any of them to use their moderator permissions in an untoward manor.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that being a moderator makes them an expert. Again an example of strawman argument. Go back and see where it started all the way to this page for the context. 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by hey_yo_

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I don't think anyone here is arguing that being a moderator makes them an expert. Again an example of strawman argument. Go back and see where it started all the way to this page for the context. 

 

It is either that or they are insinuating that the mods use their positions to leverage arguments.  which one is it? 

 

The statement was made that " You can't expect people to openly contradict a moderator ", so why? is becasue they are experts or is it becasue you think they'll use their power to win an argument?

[Kherm]

This is SO MUCH BETTER than what google shares. If you use google.com, you have no privacy.

[captain_to_fire]

17 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It is either that or they are insinuating that the mods use their positions to leverage arguments.  which one is it? 

 

The statement was made that " You can't expect people to openly contradict a moderator ", so why? is becasue they are experts or is it becasue you think they'll use their power to win an argument?

I know that mods are wielding a ban hammer but only to be used if someone violated the CS. But then, mods are also forum members just like @leadeater said and I concur that them being a mod shares the same degree of expression as any other member but what I am saying is that mods should be at the forefront of upholding the CS, not violate them just like in this thread and some other threads unfortunately. 

Quote

Generally speaking, as long as the following rules are met you should never find yourself subject to disciplinary action:

• Ensure a friendly atmosphere to our visitors and forum members.
• Encourage the freedom of expression and exchange of information in a mature and responsible manner.
• "Don't be a dick" - Wil Wheaton.
• "Be excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted.
• Remember your audience; both present and future. (emphasis added)

I certainly do not wish anyone to be banned just because of differences in opinion and I don't want this very discussion to be the cause of membership termination by anyone. All I'm saying is that differences in opinion should be under proper decorum and not turn into something toxic like Reddit or 4chan. 

[leadeater]

Should probably get back to discussing the topic of the thread now, this isn't the place to have a discussion about moderation.

[SansVarnic]

31 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Should probably get back to discussing the topic of the thread now, this isn't the place to have a discussion about moderation.

I thought discussing about mods and/or moderating was not allowed anyhow ... *shrugs*

 

*moving on*

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, Kherm said:

This is SO MUCH BETTER than what google shares. If you use google.com, you have no privacy.

This flawed argument again. IDK why you and the rest of the sheep herd comes with it all the time. Google is an online service! They have only access to what you "give" them. On the other hand windows has full access to your private stuff. Its a very big difference. Plus you can avoid google, but MS has an effective monopoly so you cant just ditch it...

[Kherm]

7 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

This flawed argument again. IDK why you and the rest of the sheep herd comes with it all the time. Google is an online service! They have only access to what you "give" them. On the other hand windows has full access to your private stuff. Its a very big difference. Plus you can avoid google, but MS has an effective monopoly so you cant just ditch it...

It always seems that Google does nothing wrong. They make money by selling your activity to advertisers. Microsoft isn't even in the ad business anymore. 

 

Seriously, If you use google maps, they know where you live and work. If you use Chrome, like I do, they track every website you visit. If you use gmail, they scrape your emails. If you use Android, like I do, then you have 0 privacy. 

 

If you somehow manage to avoid all of Google's services, Every other online company tracks your presence online

 

How do you think Apple gets traffic data? It's doesn't appear out of thin air

How are Twitter and Facebook kept as free sites? Guess.

 

"You are a walking product that every company on Earth is trying to track...get over it or get off the Internet." Microsoft is no exception.

[jagdtigger]

You are missing the point. You can avoid using google, the same cant be said from MS and their crapware. And lets clean up the misconception before it gets viral, android as an OS in itself without the proprietary "google stuff" doesnt collect info, its the "google stuff" that does that.

And just because others do it it isnt right or less wrong, if people didnt stuck their heads into the sand(and you are doing it too right now like it or not) this whole sorry situation would never become a reality.

[LAwLz]

5 hours ago, Kherm said:

It always seems that Google does nothing wrong. They make money by selling your activity to advertisers. Microsoft isn't even in the ad business anymore. 

 

Seriously, If you use google maps, they know where you live and work. If you use Chrome, like I do, they track every website you visit. If you use gmail, they scrape your emails. If you use Android, like I do, then you have 0 privacy. 

 

If you somehow manage to avoid all of Google's services, Every other online company tracks your presence online

 

How do you think Apple gets traffic data? It's doesn't appear out of thin air

How are Twitter and Facebook kept as free sites? Guess.

 

"You are a walking product that every company on Earth is trying to track...get over it or get off the Internet." Microsoft is no exception.

Google does a lot of things wrong, but like I explained before there are several reasons why it does not get brought up as often. Not to mention that it seems like some people think all criticism for Google is valid and just obvious, while all critism of Microsoft is wrong and just a hater.

For example I often call Google AIDS, and Microsoft HIV. I am 100% sure a lot of people reading that (when put in a regular comment on mine) would just go:

"He called Google AIDS, so that's good. I won't even consciously register that comment because I agree with it so much. Wait a minute... He called Microsoft HIV? HE MUST BE A HATER! BETTER TELL HIM HOW BAD GOOGLE AND APPLE ARE TOO TO JUSTIFY WHAT MICROSOFT DOES!". At least that's my experience of his forum.

 

But like jagdtigger said, even your own post is full of "if" and "like I do".

You don't have to use Google maps. There are alternatives which are perfectly acceptable.

You don't have to use Chrome. In fact I would say Firefox is strictly superior.

You don't have to use gmail. There are a huge amount of email providers you can use if you want.

You can use Android and still have privacy. It is not Android itself that has data collection, but rather the Google services you might use on Android (which are optional if you use a custom ROM).

 

Windows on the other hand, there are no alternatives to it. Even if you can run GNU/Linux or OS X as your primary OS (which a lot of people, including me can not do for job reasons) you will still run into scenarios where you need to run Windows in a VM for example.

 

Other online companies track me? Nope, I got them blocked.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by "traffic data", but Apple allows users to opt-out of things such as telemetry. That is a VERY big difference from what Microsoft does (which is not even mandatory but also deliberately misleading people who try to turn it off by making fake registry entries, GPOs and settings).

 

 

That quote is terrible by the way. The only reason why there is a slimmer of truth in that quote is because people were waving the white flag before the war even begun. It has become a self-fulfilling prophesy fueled by circular logic and arguments.

You can't use "everyone else does it" as an argument for why it should be acceptable behavior because the reason why "everyone else does it" too is because people use that argument over and over. No, not everyone else does it. But if you keep using that argument then yes, everyone will do it (except honest and good people, which are getting fewer and fewer every year it seems).

Do you like quotes? How about this quote: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

 

Right now, you're doing something worse than nothing. You're telling good men that they should accept evil because "they have already won. It's not even worth fighting for what you think is right".

[Misanthrope]

We call that whataboutery. 

[sof006]

22 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

The latency might have been caused by the chipset drivers, my rig (Z97 Sabertooth, stock 4790K, 16GB DDR3L 1400, GTX 970) has no problems with it. Though Windows 10 gives me grief in other areas (mainly after waking it up from sleep/hibernate and when trying to dualboot it).

Maybe, LatencyMon kept pinning it on Nvidia actually

[leadeater]

@LAwLz @jagdtigger

Just keep in mind there are a lot of other Google services and APIs that many web developers use so it's not as easy to avoid Google as you think it might be. Then there are the Google hosting services that people use so you could be using a website or service that has no Google branding on it anywhere and yet still be passing your traffic through Google.

 

A good example of what I'm talking about is our own company website. This is hosted on an on-premise Microsoft SharePoint farm but we use Google Search Services to index our site and allow people to search it and find things much better than the inbuilt tools, Google Search Services has all the metadata for what people search for on our site.

 

Google has an extremely big internet presence and totally avoiding them is akin to traveling in a car but not using roads, it's possible but you have to go extremely out of your way not to do it.

 

I don't think there is much point in saying you can avoid Google as it's a near impossibility to do so.

[jagdtigger]

You have a point but that is still a lot less than what MS collects with win10. Plus through win10 MS has pretty much full access to  your private "life".

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

You have a point but that is still a lot less than what MS collects with win10. Plus through win10 MS has pretty much full access to  your private "life".

Well I dunno if it's more or less, I don't think we have a way to really compare them. Basically bringing Google in to this kind of discussion is a bit pointless, like hitting nails in with a 15lb sledgehammer. It'll get the nail in but there a better ways to do it, like a hammer.

 

It can be important to compare what one company is doing against others but currently bringing Google in to it is a brick wall to the discussion, not that you started it. Everyone just starts listing off Google stuff, then people counter, everyone forgets where the discussion was then it all repeats over again till someone else brings up Google again etc.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

@LAwLz @jagdtigger

Just keep in mind there are a lot of other Google services and APIs that many web developers use so it's not as easy to avoid Google as you think it might be. Then there are the Google hosting services that people use so you could be using a website or service that has no Google branding on it anywhere and yet still be passing your traffic through Google.

 

A good example of what I'm talking about is our own company website. This is hosted on an on-premise Microsoft SharePoint farm but we use Google Search Services to index our site and allow people to search it and find things much better than the inbuilt tools, Google Search Services has all the metadata for what people search for on our site.

 

Google has an extremely big internet presence and totally avoiding them is akin to traveling in a car but not using roads, it's possible but you have to go extremely out of your way not to do it.

 

I don't think there is much point in saying you can avoid Google as it's a near impossibility to do so.

Kinda like saying, I am going to use the internet but I don't want any of my traffic routed through cisco systems hardware. Good luck.

 

To be honest I don't even understand why this conversation is still going.   There is no way to prove absolutely one point over the other, so essentially this thread is just people repeating their opinions ad nauseam (with the occasional disesteem of fellow members with different views).

[LAwLz]

12 hours ago, leadeater said:

@LAwLz @jagdtigger

Just keep in mind there are a lot of other Google services and APIs that many web developers use so it's not as easy to avoid Google as you think it might be. Then there are the Google hosting services that people use so you could be using a website or service that has no Google branding on it anywhere and yet still be passing your traffic through Google.

 

A good example of what I'm talking about is our own company website. This is hosted on an on-premise Microsoft SharePoint farm but we use Google Search Services to index our site and allow people to search it and find things much better than the inbuilt tools, Google Search Services has all the metadata for what people search for on our site.

 

Google has an extremely big internet presence and totally avoiding them is akin to traveling in a car but not using roads, it's possible but you have to go extremely out of your way not to do it.

 

I don't think there is much point in saying you can avoid Google as it's a near impossibility to do so.

A lot of those Google services and APIs are also easy to detect and block (not all of them though). For example you can blacklist the Google analytics js to get rid of a very large portion of Google's tracking ability.

But like you said, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

 

 

8 hours ago, mr moose said:

To be honest I don't even understand why this conversation is still going.   There is no way to prove absolutely one point over the other, so essentially this thread is just people repeating their opinions ad nauseam (with the occasional disesteem of fellow members with different views).

Prove what point exactly? There are multiple points that have been proven through this conversation.

I don't think the side who has gotten proven wrong accepts it, but hopefully someone who comes in and reads the thread with an open mind will make the correct judgment.

 

 

Edit: Yes, @Colonel_Gerdauf I wrote this post without specifying which side was right on purpose. Glad you liked it.

[79wjd]

7 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

You have a point but that is still a lot less than what MS collects with win10. Plus through win10 MS has pretty much full access to  your private "life".

Don't use Windows as your personal OS. Work can easily be separated from personal use.

[jagdtigger]

15 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Don't use Windows as your personal OS. Work can easily be separated from personal use.

You are forgetting that they have a monopoly on PC's, including gaming unfortunately. For now all i can do is keep using win7 and keep it clean, plus look into PCI pass through and how to setup a white list firewall just for a VM running on linux...

[captain_to_fire]

Just out of curiosity, is this the one responsible for telemetry? if yes, what would happen if I terminated it from the Task Manager? 

 

Surprisingly, it doesn't chew up any network bandwidth when it showed up in the Task Manager.

[LAwLz]

50 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Just out of curiosity, is this the one responsible for telemetry? if yes, what would happen if I terminated it from the Task Manager? 

Pretty sure there is no one process handling it all. It is most likely spread out and baked into several other functions as well to make it harder to disable.

I can't find what that specific process does though.

[TroubleKlef]

I see that nothing has changed on LTT forums. Same people cheerleading for certain companies and others stirring up shit just to stir up shit.

[LAwLz]

49 minutes ago, TroubleKlef said:

I see that nothing has changed on LTT forums. Same people cheerleading for certain companies and others stirring up shit just to stir up shit.

I don't think I "stir up shit just to stir up shit".

I am trying to correct the misinformation that is being spread, and hopefully make people care about the same things I do, so that we can unite against Microsoft and make them change Windows for the better. Right now I think Windows is heading straight for the garbage can, and people are cheering on horrible decisions which will inevitably hurt them in the future.