Microsoft shares what it collectes in Windows 10 Telemetry data

[LAwLz]

25 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I didn't call anyone of the forum morons, which is what you were referring to.

Maybe that's how you interpreted the post, but I did not say that. PCWorld writers are people too you know.

 

25 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

PCWorld don't know what they are talking about. And I stand by what I said.

Is there anything factually wrong in that article you want to disprove, or is it mostly a case of semantics where you disagree with the words and phrases they chose?

 

27 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You are trying to derail the topic, because this is Microsoft. If it was Google or Apple, you would defend them with your life. And your reactions on negative Apple and Google news, shows this.

How is this me trying to derail the topic? The topic is about what info Microsoft collects, and the conversation we are having right now is about what Microsoft is collecting. It is highly relevant to the main topic of this thread. It is you on the other hand who is trying to derail the conversation by bringing up Apple and Google like you always do. Whataboutery at its finest.

 

No, I do not defend Apple or Google with my life. Have you ever seen posts from me about Apple and Google news? I give credit where credit is due, and shit on things I think are bad. But have you looked at the type of topics that appear?

Microsoft topics are usually about really scummy behavior like removing user choice, or doing things behind users' backs. So of course I will hate on that.

What recent Google or Apple topics have we had? Nothing interesting or bad. And yes, I did go back and look through the last 10 pages of news topics just to make sure. The only things I found about Google and Apple were like, Google is trying to fix the update system for Android, and some batteries in Beats headphones exploded. Boring... That topic about Google making a tool to port Windows DLLs to GNU/Linux seems interesting though. I'll read and probably comment on that! It most likely won't be a negative comment though because Google is not doing something that harms consumers.

 

 

40 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Oh please. You know perfectly what it means, you try to waste my time, and everyone else time here. No matter what is given to you, you'll deny.

No I do not know what you mean. I thought I did, but after saying that it does not track what you type, just your strokes (is that writing strokes or keystrokes?) I am genuinely not sure anymore. Like I said in my post before, tracking key- and writing strokes is to me the same as tracking what you write.

"I did not track what you wrote, I just tracked that you pressed H, E, L, L and O in sequence" does not make sense to me (assuming this is what you are trying to argue, I really don't know).

 

 

42 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Even if tomorrow Microsoft adds a full disable button on any tracking of any kind, any data sent to their server, full quits, server shutdown, no more nothing, and start sending updates via floppy disks that you need to go and get from stores. You'll still claim that the OS is actually trying to track you, spy your every move...

Well I would not believe them at first, but after running packet capture for a few days I would be certain that they had stopped doing it on my machine for now. But I would remain skeptical because it would strike me as odd that Microsoft would do a complete 180 turn.

 

I actually form my opinions on evidence and tests. I don't say Microsoft tracks users because I dislike them. I say it because I have personally tested these things, as well as read and talked to various experts who has done their own tests. I don't take things for granted, nor do I trust Microsoft's word. I think you should do the same, considering how many times you have had to apologize to me for being hostile and then gotten proven wrong. Maybe I should start tracking that, because it must be quite the list already, and I am sure it will continue to grow.

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Maybe that's how you interpreted the post, but I did not say that. PCWorld writers are people too you know.

Well, if they want legitimacy, they should do their own research. Make sure they understand, and make a quality article.

 

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Is there anything factually wrong in that article you want to disprove, or is it mostly a case of semantics where you disagree with the words and phrases they chose?

The information on this thread shows that they are incorrect.

 

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

How is this me trying to derail the topic? The topic is about what info Microsoft collects, and the conversation we are having right now is about what Microsoft is collecting. It is highly relevant to the main topic of this thread. It is you on the other hand who is trying to derail the conversation by bringing up Apple and Google like you always do. Whataboutery at its finest.

Oh please. You are derailing it by acting like you need a definitions on everything. The discussion is long done. Microsoft shared what it collects. And yet you ignore it.

I didn't bring Google and Apple into the conversation per se. I was pointing to you your silly agenda.

 

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Microsoft topics are usually about really scummy behavior like removing user choice, or doing things behind users' backs. So of course I will hate on that.

Where are doing things behind users back here? Where does it remove choice here? Privacy options are there, and can be customized. They disclose what they collect, and now goes in details.

 

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

What recent Google or Apple topics have we had? Nothing interesting or bad. And yes, I did go back and look through the last 10 pages of news topics just to make sure. The only things I found about Google and Apple were like, Google is trying to fix the update system for Android, and some batteries in Beats headphones exploded. Boring... That topic about Google making a tool to port Windows DLLs to GNU/Linux seems interesting though. I'll read and probably comment on that! It most likely won't be a negative comment though because Google is not doing something that harms consumers.

Here is some news. Apple transparency report. With the whole Apple keep people data private, with the iPhone FBI fiasco

https://images.apple.com/legal/privacy/transparency/requests-2016-H2-en.pdf

Looks like they comply to all types of requests even without a warrant.

 

But I guess that i boring. Like Apple saying that the headphone explosion is because the user used "third party" AAA batteries, and wash their hands... Apple doesn't make batteries. I guess they are headphones you can't use. https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/19/15666082/apple-headphones-fire-flight-explosion-beats-battery That is not anti-consumer at all. Clearly.

 

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

No I do not know what you mean. I thought I did, but after saying that it does not track what you type, just your strokes (is that writing strokes or keystrokes?) I am genuinely not sure anymore. Like I said in my post before, tracking key- and writing strokes is to me the same as tracking what you write.

Writing strokes.

 

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

"I did not track what you wrote, I just tracked that you pressed H, E, L, L and O in sequence" does not make sense to me (assuming this is what you are trying to argue, I really don't know).

No. Strokes are segments of letters. It sees. | and the distance between 3x - from top middle and bottom, to recognize the letter E, it checks the recursive l and t, and tries to separate an L and a T. You can turn it off, and then you'll always fight with the recognition, unless it likes your handwriting, like in Windows 7. Up to you.

 

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Well I would not believe them at first, but after running packet capture for a few days I would be certain that they had stopped doing it on my machine for now. But I would remain skeptical because it would strike me as odd that Microsoft would do a complete 180 turn.

And that is a problem. Like I said, no matter what news arrives, because it is Microsoft you hate for hating. But other news, is a pass.

 

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I actually form my opinions on evidence and tests. I don't say Microsoft tracks users because I dislike them. I say it because I have personally tested these things, as well as read and talked to various experts who has done their own tests. I don't take things for granted, nor do I trust Microsoft's word. I think you should do the same, considering how many times you have had to apologize to me for being hostile and then gotten proven wrong. Maybe I should start tracking that, because it must be quite the list already, and I am sure it will continue to grow.

Evidence shows you are incorrect. The detail privacy policy update by Microsoft indicate this. And we are still waiting for your test results.

 

[NinJake]

I'm just going to chime in here and say they are more than likely collecting metadata. I disagree with Microsoft adding "advertisements" to Explorer (I have yet to see this personally, but I saw a picture online) I do agree that PCworld is a pretty bad source of valid information.

[LAwLz]

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

The information on this thread shows that they are incorrect.

What claims did they make that have been disproved in this thread?

 

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Oh please. You are derailing it by acting like you need a definitions on everything.

I am not derailing the topic. The reason why I asked for a definition is because you said that Microsoft do not collect what you type, they only collect strokes. What strokes are you talking about and how is that different from collecting what you type?

 

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I didn't bring Google and Apple into the conversation per se. I was pointing to you your silly agenda.

What silly agenda? To be unbiased and make up my own opinions based on facts and logic? Yeah, what a silly agenda.

 

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Where are doing things behind users back here? Where does it remove choice here? Privacy options are there, and can be customized. They disclose what they collect, and now goes in details.

They are not doing things behind users backs, nor removing choice on this particular issue, but they are doing it in other places.

No, they are not disclosing what they collect. A lot of the points in the document are still unclear, they do not say when they collect it, they do not tell users what info they collected (as in, give users a report they can look through), and no they can not be customized. A lot of the options have been proven to not do anything. There are a lot of switches you can enable/disable with for example GPOs, firewall rules, registry edits and so on, but a lot of them gets undone automatically or simply don't do anything to begin with. So no, just because there is an on/off button for something in Windows you can sadly not trust that it actually turns things on/off.

How many options in the menus Microsoft gives users does not matter if the options do not change how the system behaves.

 

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Here is some news. Apple transparency report. With the whole Apple keep people data private, with the iPhone FBI fiasco

https://images.apple.com/legal/privacy/transparency/requests-2016-H2-en.pdf

Looks like they comply to all types of requests even without a warrant.

 

But I guess that i boring. Like Apple saying that the headphone explosion is because the user used "third party" AAA batteries, and wash their hands... Apple doesn't make batteries. I guess they are headphones you can't use. https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/19/15666082/apple-headphones-fire-flight-explosion-beats-battery That is not anti-consumer at all. Clearly.

So make a thread about Apple's transparency report if you want me to comment on it. I am not going to derail this thread though.

 

 

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Writing strokes.

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

No. Strokes are segments of letters. It sees. | and the distance between 3x - from top middle and bottom, to recognize the letter E, it checks the recursive l and t, and tries to separate an L and a T. You can turn it off, and then you'll always fight with the recognition, unless it likes your handwriting, like in Windows 7. Up to you.

So Microsoft do not transmit any information about what you write with your keyboard to their servers? It is only for handwriting and possibly some other inputs such as voice?

Is that what you are saying? I am talking about when you have settings turned on by the way. If it does when things are turned on then I don't see why you were calling PCWorld morons for telling people how to turn it off.

 

 

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

And that is a problem. Like I said, no matter what news arrives, because it is Microsoft you hate for hating. But other news, is a pass.

What are you on about? How is it weird to be skeptical of a company doing a complete 180? I also don't trust any company. Again, I base my opinions on evidence and facts, not words. If Nvidia claims that their new GPU is 40% faster then I want third party benchmarks, because I do not trust first party ones.

Wanna know why I do not trust Microsoft? Because they have been caught doing things like putting Windows 10 advertisements in "security updates". Because they have been in court several times for breaking the law and harming consumers and competitors. Because they have put settings in Windows which do not actually do the things they claim to do. The list of shady things Microsoft has done is almost as long as the list of data they collect even with privacy settings all turned to the max.

 

Want me to praise Microsoft? Then post some good news. News like how they released patches for Windows XP despite it being out of support. News like that are extremely rare from Microsoft though, and that's why I don't post a lot of good things regarding them. As for other companies, I constantly shit on them. A very common comparison I do is that I say Google is AIDS, and Microsoft is HIV (when it comes to data collection). How that can be interpreted as giving Google a pass, I don't know. Want me to shit on Google and Apple more? Make threads about the bad things they do and if I think I have some original input and the subject interests me then I'll comment.

 

I think some users who has read my posts long enough will be able to predict how I will comment on topics. I want the best for consumers, regardless of which company the topic is about.

 

 

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Evidence shows you are incorrect. The detail privacy policy update by Microsoft indicate this. And we are still waiting for your test results.

What am I wrong about exactly?

Where in the privacy policy does it say Microsoft do not track users? I am fairly sure the privacy policy is the one thing a lot of apologists points to and says "see? You signed this so they are allowed to do the things they do!".

 

What test results do you want? One of the links in this post contains several tests done by Matt Burnett. You have also apologized to me for calling me a liar several times after I have posted my tests to prove you wrong in other threads.

[captain_to_fire]

27 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Honestly he should not be one, the community is much worst off for it. 

A forum mod's job as far as I'm concerned is be the referee when people with differing views start fighting, not join in it or act as an apologist for a tech platform. It's good that I'm not emotionally invested on any tech companies.

[Misanthrope]

13 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

A forum mod's job as far as I'm concerned is be the referee when people with differing views start fighting, not join in it or act as an apologist for a tech platform. It's good that I'm not emotionally invested on any tech companies.

He has claimed he comments as a regular user and that it should not affect the conversation. I disagreed, vehemently. Nobody cares about this however so I am basically purposefully avoiding and commenting far less on all threads Microsoft unless it's just a lighthearted joke but not a real discussion.

[captain_to_fire]

4 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

He has claimed he comments as a regular user and that it should not affect the conversation. I disagreed, vehemently. Nobody cares about this however so I am basically purposefully avoiding and commenting far less on all threads Microsoft unless it's just a lighthearted joke but not a real discussion.

I posted more than once why I prefer iOS over Android and I stated the reasons. Of course there are people who disagreed with me and even mocked Apple but I let it go and I don't think I engaged in a silly ad hominem verbal grenade.

 

Stages of apologetics;

1. Denial 
2. Deflection
3. Insults 
4. Threats 
5. Inciting violence 

It's a good thing most tech apologists only engage up to number three. 

[GoodBytes]

40 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I posted more than once why I prefer iOS over Android and I stated the reasons. Of course there are people who disagreed with me and even mocked Apple but I let it go and I don't think I engaged in a silly ad hominem verbal grenade.

Sure, but if you have points to share, you share them. You want to correct the miss information from people that has on Apple to inform the public. Apple does make fine products, and has a great multi-device ecosystem. In fact, they defined what a multi-device ecosystem is, and still leads by example, in my opinion. Apple focus is on providing the best experience. It requires experimentation. For example, the touch bar on the MacBook Pro. And that is fine. You can see that they do their best when they experiment, and releases it, and see how people adapt to it or not. This is a big problem with Microsoft. We saw this with Windows 8, where they experimented with the Start screen, ok, that is fine, but you can see that they just pretty much slap it together, without much thought. Heck, the tiles were not even organized in any fashion, it didn't highlight anything you can do with them, it didn't suggest any arrangements, and you throw this to the public. And just to make it more confusing, you remove the Start menu button. If they put though on what they are doing, then you would end up with something like Windows 10 as a starting point.. not the end point.

 

Example, people say that the iPhone doesn't have an OLED screen. So what? IPS panels are more power efficient then OLED in many situation, and over saturated (see Samsung phones). OLED is only great in power efficiency is if you have a lot of black. But iOS is a brightly colored OS. This is the design language that Apple is doing with, and IPS panel makes more sense. This is also not helped by the fact that OLED is actually not very bright, and to be brighter, it requires a lot more energy. The easiest proof, is to take an Android phone, or heck even a Windows 10 Mobile phone with an OLED screen and switch between a dark theme and white theme. The different in battery life is noticeable.

 

Is that being apologetic?

 

My point is that they is/are reasons to do things. This is not about following a check list of "must have tech". Companies that do, they fail at making a wonderful product. Example: Look at Samsung latest phones. They are great phones, but by going with the S8 "It must have all the security features of all phones on the market, let's just slap it all together", despite great marketing that the phone is a secure phone, as time goes by, we can see that more and more of the security features implemented are not secure at all. Facial recognition is easily by-passed with a picture, Google own implementation is at least racking facial movement to detect if it is real person or not (not perfect, can be by-passed with a video, but harder, and takes more effort). The iris scanner was thought to be great, but it ended up that putting a contact lens on a picture of the user, not even need to be a detailed one, just a decent one, can by-pass it. Yes, it is harder, but still silly. Will it be better later one? I sure hope so, but so far, they just check-list that part.

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Sure, but if you have points to share, you share them. You want to correct the miss information from people that has on Apple to inform the public. Apple does make fine products, and has a great ecosystem. In fact, they defined what a multi-device ecosystem is, and still leads by example, in my opinion. Apple focus is on providing the best experience. It requires experimentation. For example, the touch bar on the MacBook Pro. And that is fine. You can see that they do their best when they experiment, and releases it, and see how people adapt to it or not. This is a big problem with Microsoft. We saw this with Windows 8, where they experimented with the Start screen, ok, that is fine, but you can see that they just pretty much slap it together, without much thought. Heck, the tiles were not even organized in any fashion, it didn't highlight anything you can do with them, it didn't suggest any arrangements, and you throw this to the public. And just to make it more confusing, you remove the Start menu button. If they put though on what they are doing, then you would end up with something like Windows 10 as a starting point.. not the end point.

 

Example, people say that the iPhone doesn't have an OLED screen. So what? IPS panels are more power efficient then OLED in many situation, and over saturated (see Samsung phones). OLED is only great in power efficiency is if you have a lot of black. But iOS is a brightly colored OS. This is the design language that Apple is doing with, and IPS panel makes more sense. This is also not helped by the fact that OLED is actually not very bright, and to be brighter, it requires a lot more energy. The easiest proof, is to take an Android phone, or heck even a Windows 10 Mobile phone with an OLED screen and switch between a dark theme and white theme. The different in battery life is noticeable.

 

Is that being apologetic?

Considering the bold part is 100% subjective, yes.

[GoodBytes]

11 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Considering the bold part is 100% subjective, yes.

Correction on my post. I meant to say: "Multi-device ecosystem" Will correct.

 

But to answer:

Nha. You have a series of points that can be made, and how it pushed/changed the market. It might not fit your needs and that is fine. But it doesn't make it a cheapo product or poor multi-device ecosystem. You want a poor one? Look at Windows. Let's start by finding one.

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Sure, but if you have points to share, you share them. You want to correct the miss information from people that has on Apple to inform the public.

*misinformation

I will but then again, I am not a staunch opponent either if a person wants to believe on something. Someone might say that AMOLED is always dimmer and over saturated on all phones than IPS LCD but we both know that AMOLED can be made brighter and color saturation can be fixed with a software tweak. If they want to believe in something, who am I to take it away from them. Besides, what's in it for you when someone spreads falsehoods about Windows in this forum? Why be so passionate in defending something that doesn't concern you? I'm pretty sure forum mods should be at the forefront of following the community standards and not defend their emotional investments on a tech platform.

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Is that being apologetic?

You immediately jumped in accusing someone of photoshopping screenshots [here] while overlooking the fact that Windows Store in every country is different and some content are geographically restricted, and that is just one example. Always remember that the burden of proof lies not on the individual who questions or criticizes the claim but on the person who's making the claim. I mean, just look at the comments you've made whenever Microsoft is the topic. Here's a reference by the way.

 

You cannot put out fire with fire. So if someone is saying bad about a tech product and people are having a nasty exchange of words, why bother mixing yourself in the toxic cesspool when you can clean it?

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

But iOS is a brightly colored OS. This is the design language that Apple is doing with, and IPS panel makes more sense. This is also not helped by the fact that OLED is actually not very bright, and to be brighter, it requires a lot more energy.

I think the reason why Apple didn't immediately went AMOLED is because of lifespan. AMOLED as time goes by suffers from screen burn in. Also, as AMOLED ages, whites become yellow. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by hey_yo_

[Misanthrope]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Correction on my post. I meant to say: "Multi-device ecosystem" Will correct.

 

But to answer:

Nha. You have a series of points that can be made, and how it pushed/changed the market. It might not fit your needs and that is fine. But it doesn't make it a cheapo product or poor multi-device ecosystem. You want a poor one? Look at Windows. Let's start by finding one.

But there's no objective truth about what's a good or bad product or ecosystem. You do this all the time by the way: You think that you can apply 100% objectivity to things that are in large degree a matter of opinion and depend a lot on the expectations from the user. It makes you come off as extremely condescending, not unlike a previous former user that has not been infamously banned.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

A forum mod's job as far as I'm concerned is be the referee when people with differing views start fighting, not join in it or act as an apologist for a tech platform. It's good that I'm not emotionally invested on any tech companies.

 

Becoming a moderator however shouldn't mean giving up the right to participate as a regular member of the forum, if that is the case then very few would take on that role. Every member should be acting within the bounds of the Community Standards, moderation should only be called upon when this is not happening which is why we say unless otherwise stated we are regular members of the forum.

[SansVarnic]

On 5/25/2017 at 6:11 AM, LAwLz said:

I don't see why that matters. To me, that's like saying "human eyes will never see 99.99% of votes" as an argument for why everyone should be forced to submit what they voted for to Google for them to store in their database. It does not matter if most data is not read by a human because it will still have an impact on things. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but possibility in the distant future. Besides, that 0.01% could still be really bad.

 

On top of that, your argument only makes sense if you assume that being spied on is the default opinion. That being spied on should be considered normal and nothing to make a fuss about. "If you don't come up with a valid argument for not being spied on then you should be spied on!". I think it is the other way around. Not collecting a huge amount of data, both personal and not personal, should be something that is very looked down upon and something companies should be very careful with doing. If they want to do it, then THEY should have to justify why they want to do it, not the customers having to justify why they want to keep their privacy.

Right now, Microsoft has not justified why they collect the things they do. In fact, even Microsoft themselves have said that about 50% of what they are collecting is completely useless to them.

It was a simple blanket statement.

You are reading waaay to much into what I wrote.

 

My reasoning is simple; telemetry is not spying unless real metadata is acquired about me which it is not [no I am not going to have this debate again] currently, the data being acquired by either company [MS/ Google/ Apple] is fairly obvious and MS, Google an Apple makes it clear as to what information collected and how it is used. I will not focus on a specific company as I have stated in the past many times, It has no bearing on anything other than the fact that this telemetry is needed to successfully create the current level of tech we use daily. This hate on MS is just BS and needs to (quite frankly) stop unless we start including Google [Alphabet], and Apple in this conversation. 

 

I am not defending MS just tired of this targeted [biased] hate on the practice of the telemetry by MS that is done by everyone.  

[sof006]

I love Windows 10 however I have to admit i've moved back to Windows 7 due to an issue I have been having with Windows 10 and that is the my DPC Latency skyrockets to 1000 (tested on two different PCs) and when reinstalling Windows 7 hovers around 40.

 

P.S for anyone who doesn't know what DPC Latency is here https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/

 

 

Back on topic however I am not too bothered about what Microsoft is doing, fighting for privacy is basically a lost cause because no matter what you do you cannot avoid being spied on. If you are connected to the internet you are giving at least someone your information whether you like it or not.

[Dabombinable]

11 minutes ago, sof006 said:

I love Windows 10 however I have to admit i've moved back to Windows 7 due to an issue I have been having with Windows 10 and that is the my DPC Latency skyrockets to 1000 (tested on two different PCs) and when reinstalling Windows 7 hovers around 40.

 

P.S for anyone who doesn't know what DPC Latency is here https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/

 

 

Back on topic however I am not too bothered about what Microsoft is doing, fighting for privacy is basically a lost cause because no matter what you do you cannot avoid being spied on. If you are connected to the internet you are giving at least someone your information whether you like it or not.

The latency might have been caused by the chipset drivers, my rig (Z97 Sabertooth, stock 4790K, 16GB DDR3L 1400, GTX 970) has no problems with it. Though Windows 10 gives me grief in other areas (mainly after waking it up from sleep/hibernate and when trying to dualboot it).

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

My reasoning is simple; telemetry is not spying unless real metadata is acquired about me which it is not [no I am not going to have this debate again] currently

But it is. There is a ton of information Microsoft is collecting which can be used to track you. There is a huge amount of personal information in there. I don't know what "real metadata about me" means to you, but to me logging things like which programs I start (ProgramId, DefaultBrowserProgId, ProgramInstanceId, and the list goes on), which files I open (FileId field, probably more than I don't know about), which computer and account I used (PCFP, DUID, IMEI, UserGuid, WUDeviceID, CDNId, and the list goes on).

 

 

1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

It has no bearing on anything other than the fact that this telemetry is needed to successfully create the current level of tech we use daily.

I disagree. There are many products and OSes I would consider far superior to Windows in many regards, and they have not required mandatory telemetry to get to where they are. Old Microsoft did not need it. Apple does not need it. A wide variety of GNU/Linux based distros do not need it. So why does Microsoft all of a sudden need it?

 

 

1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

I am not defending MS just tired of this targeted [biased] hate on the practice of the telemetry by MS that is done by everyone.  

Want me to talk shit about Google? Then make a thread about something bad Google is doing.

There are several reasons why Microsoft is getting extra attention right now.

1) We have had these conversations about Google 10 years ago already. It has been discussed over and over and over again. Google has already been in the spotlight for more than a decade.

2) Google is now a lost cause. They won't change their ways because their business is built upon it. Microsoft however, has just recently started moving over to the dark side and I think there is a chance to have them turn around. That's only possible if people stop defending bad behavior though.

3) Google is a lot easier to avoid than Microsoft. Don't want Android? Then get an iPhone. Don't want Google search? Then use DDG or some other search engine. Don't want Windows? Tough luck. Microsoft used illegal methods to position themselves as the dominant PC OS so now you're stuck with it. And don't tell me you can just use GNU/Linux or OS X. That is not practical in a wide variety of situations. In fact, my job requires me to use Windows. I would lose my job and my home if I refused to use Windows.

 

You're just flat out wrong about "everyone is doing it" though. There are plenty of OSes and programs which do not spy on users at all. Then there are those who give users the option either as opt-in or opt-out.

Not to mention that spying is not something you do or don't do. There are varying degrees of it and the more extreme cases should be ridiculed more than the lesser extremes. For example Cyanogen collected some data and were very upfront about it. You could disable it if you wanted, and you could preview all the data before it was sent off. Compare that to Microsoft, who collects a ton of data that the users don't know about, there is no option to disable it (they have even built in techniques to fool users into think it is off when it really isn't), the settings has at multiple occasions gotten reset, and you can't preview any data.

Which one do you think people will focus on?

[mr moose]

24 minutes ago, sof006 said:

I love Windows 10 however I have to admit i've moved back to Windows 7 due to an issue I have been having with Windows 10 and that is the my DPC Latency skyrockets to 1000 (tested on two different PCs) and when reinstalling Windows 7 hovers around 40.

 

P.S for anyone who doesn't know what DPC Latency is here https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/

 

 

Back on topic however I am not too bothered about what Microsoft is doing, fighting for privacy is basically a lost cause because no matter what you do you cannot avoid being spied on. If you are connected to the internet you are giving at least someone your information whether you like it or not.

 

Mine seems to be running fine in win 10, Although I like the idea of blaming it for timing issues when multitracking 

[SansVarnic]

22 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

<snip>

 

I have many times posted what google has done (on this forum). Not going down the long road of tit for tat here. Made my point and the hate continues. Please go on about what is now an industry standard.

[Misanthrope]

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

Becoming a moderator however shouldn't mean giving up the right to participate as a regular member of the forum, if that is the case then very few would take on that role. Every member should be acting within the bounds of the Community Standards, moderation should only be called upon when this is not happening which is why we say unless otherwise stated we are regular members of the forum.

Actually, it should. You can't expect people to openly contradict a moderator if you accept your role you should accept that you give up your role as not only a user but a company cheerleader. 

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Actually, it should. You can't expect people to openly contradict a moderator if you accept your role you should accept that you give up your role as not only a user but a company cheerleader. 

Well that is one area where I'll always disagree, moderators are volunteers of the forum and are here because we like the forum and being members of it. What you are suggesting we do is no longer be a member of the community so longer be part of what we enjoy, so then why would we stick around?

 

It is actually rather easy to tell when someone is acting as a moderator and when one is not, we also do no moderate topics we are active in ourselves so if you are having a debate you are having one with a member not a moderator.

[Misanthrope]

34 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well that is one area where I'll always disagree, moderators are volunteers of the forum and are here because we like the forum and being members of it. What you are suggesting we do is no longer be a member of the community so longer be part of what we enjoy, so then why would we stick around?

 

It is actually rather easy to tell when someone is acting as a moderator and when one is not, we also do no moderate topics we are active in ourselves so if you are having a debate you are having one with a member not a moderator.

Yes that is what I am suggesting. I am not suggesting that you volunteer your time for free however: Linus should be able to either afford to pay for moderation or stop being so insanely rigid about super strict moderation.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

40 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well that is one area where I'll always disagree, moderators are volunteers of the forum and are here because we like the forum and being members of it. What you are suggesting we do is no longer be a member of the community so longer be part of what we enjoy, so then why would we stick around?

 

It is actually rather easy to tell when someone is acting as a moderator and when one is not, we also do no moderate topics we are active in ourselves so if you are having a debate you are having one with a member not a moderator.

I would not mind any of it at all if mods also retained the possibility to be added to the "ignore user" list in their regular user activity. I don't expect the forum rules to coincide 1 to 1 with my view, so it may happen that what I consider to be toxic forum behavior is not against the community standards; however, I prefer not to engage, nor be tempted to engage, users who I get this impression from repeatedly. If mods can reach the CS boundaries as any other user (which is in itself a valid option), then maybe they shouldn't enjoy the un-ignorable privilege other than for their moderating-related posts.

 

I mean, it's not a life&death matter, but it could be better  

[captain_to_fire]

3 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I am not defending MS just tired of this targeted [biased] hate on the practice of the telemetry by MS that is done by everyone.  

I firmly believe that criticism is a must for progress especially when things are going haywire. It's true that both Apple and Microsoft engage in telemetry but between those two, Apple allows turning off of telemetry whereas Microsoft does not nor would they allow sending of feedback on basic telemetry which is ludicrous.

[mr moose]

42 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well that is one area where I'll always disagree, moderators are volunteers of the forum and are here because we like the forum and being members of it. What you are suggesting we do is no longer be a member of the community so longer be part of what we enjoy, so then why would we stick around?

 

It is actually rather easy to tell when someone is acting as a moderator and when one is not, we also do no moderate topics we are active in ourselves so if you are having a debate you are having one with a member not a moderator.

 

I don't know why people think that being a moderator automatically makes them an expert.   Also there is a whole team of moderators, so unless people think they have a secret agenda with the sole purpose of singling a user out, it would be hard for any of them to use their moderator permissions in an untoward manor.