Windows 10 Creators Update – Here is everything you need to know - Out now

[Zodiark1593]

On Friday, April 07, 2017 at 3:00 PM, TheGosuStandard said:

Is it better to do a clean install or just update from anniversary edition?

If you're half as pressed for time as I am, an update. Mine is upgraded from Win 7, so this should be interesting. Hope no driver updates will be needed due to lack of home Internet and all that. 

[suicidalfranco]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand still haven't fixed the change defaults app to ms ones "bug". Gosh MS sure is having a hard time fixing that "bug", must be the most persistent "bug" i've ever seen wouldn't want to be MS boots and having to deal with such a "bug" for years with no solutions 

[Sniperfox47]

16 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand still haven't fixed the change defaults app to ms ones "bug". Gosh MS sure is having a hard time fixing that "bug", must be the most persistent "bug" i've ever seen wouldn't want to be MS boots and having to deal with such a "bug" for years with no solutions 

It was fixed *after* the anniversary update. This has been said in this thread multiple times. It will happen one last time this time, and won't happen in the future as long as you uncheck the boxes in the OOBE.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Barnacules dropped a new video

 

 

[Sniperfox47]

3 hours ago, Pohernori said:

Barnacules dropped a new video

 

 

Holy shit. I got 4 minutes into it when I had to stop...

 

Like what is he even talking about?

 

A) Windows version upgrades (which is how Windows 10 is implemented) have always been sketchy for reliability when they don't reset a ton of the registry in the process... That's why Microsoft has been resetting all of the configuration data in the registry with every edition update, since they're essentially a version upgrade. If he's an ex-Microsoft employee he should know that. It's not exactly a secret. They also publicly said like 8 months ago that it would happen again when the Creator's Update came out... It's not like they his it. If it happens again next time get upset, because now they've said it's fixed.

 

B) *Every* mobile OS thats preinstalled on devices collects your IMEI for the manufacturer... Hell even Ubuntu Touch, Firefox OS and Sailfish did... Android even exposes it to apps... Like what is he even talking about? It's used as the device identifier on mobile devices, since they don't have other serials available for identification. It's literally no different from the desktop version sending a hash of your motherboard serial on activation...

 

What is he even talking about? If you want a device without privacy concerns get an open hardware phone, with straight Debian on it, and only use wifi for calling via an encrypted anonymization service, never putting a sim card in it... 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Just now, Sniperfox47 said:

Holy shit. I got 4 minutes into it when I had to stop...

 

Like what is he even talking about?

 

A) Windows version upgrades (which is how Windows 10 is implemented) have always been sketchy for reliability when they don't reset a ton of the registry in the process... That's why Microsoft has been resetting all of the configuration data in the registry with every edition update, since they're essentially a version upgrade. If he's an ex-Microsoft employee he should know that. It's not exactly a secret. They also publicly said like 8 months ago that it would happen again when the Creator's Update came out... It's not like they his it. If it happens again next time get upset, because now they've said it's fixed.

 

B) *Every* mobile OS thats preinstalled on devices collects your IMEI for the manufacturer... Hell even Ubuntu Touch, Firefox OS and Sailfish did... Android even exposes it to apps... Like what is he even talking about? It's used as the device identifier on mobile devices, since they don't have other serials available for identification. It's literally no different from the desktop version sending a hash of your motherboard serial on activation...

 

What is he even talking about? If you want a device without privacy concerns get an open hardware phone, with straight Debian on it, and only use wifi for calling via an encrypted anonymization service, never putting a sim card in it... 

 

[jagdtigger]

6 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Holy shit. I got 4 minutes into it when I had to stop...

 

Like what is he even talking about?

 

A) Windows version upgrades (which is how Windows 10 is implemented) have always been sketchy for reliability when they don't reset a ton of the registry in the process... That's why Microsoft has been resetting all of the configuration data in the registry with every edition update, since they're essentially a version upgrade. If he's an ex-Microsoft employee he should know that. It's not exactly a secret. They also publicly said like 8 months ago that it would happen again when the Creator's Update came out... It's not like they his it. If it happens again next time get upset, because now they've said it's fixed.

Its just another example how incompetent Microsoft become. Its just idiotic and brutally lazy to reset the settings instead of implementing a system where settings could be preserved...
 

[AlTech]

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Its just another example how incompetent Microsoft become. Its just idiotic and brutally lazy to reset the settings instead of implementing a system where settings could be preserved...
 

The problem is that the Registry values could be modified and so they if they removed or added new values, the Registry would have to be replaced and reset. 

 

This is a big deal and the Registry is such a bad joke...

[jagdtigger]

6 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The problem is that the Registry values could be modified and so they if they removed or added new values, the Registry would have to be replaced and reset. 

 

This is a big deal and the Registry is such a bad joke...

If  there is a functioning set of settings why they even need to replace the whole thing? New functions have no keys so they only need to add things, there is literally no legitimate reason to reset the whole registry.

[AlTech]

Just now, jagdtigger said:

If  there is a functioning set of settings why they even need to replace the whole thing? New functions have no keys so they only need to add things, there is literally no legitimate reason to reset the whole registry.

Yeah, there totally isn't. I mean you're not jumping from one OS to the other or anything /sarcasm.

[jagdtigger]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Yeah, there totally isn't. I mean you're not jumping from one OS to the other or anything /sarcasm.

No you are not. Its just an update... Highly doubt there is anything changed in the stuff thats already there, or so minimal that it doesn't justify a full reset.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

No you are not. Its just an update... Highly doubt there is anything changed in the stuff thats already there, or so minimal that it doesn't justify a full reset.

Actually, you are. The whole upgrade process is identical as if you were to pass from Windows 7 to 8, or 8 to 10, or Windows 98/Me to XP. The install process is doing a whole OS upgrade.

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

Actually, you are. The whole upgrade process is identical as if you were to pass from Windows 7 to 8, or 8 to 10, or Windows 98/Me to XP. The install process is doing a whole OS upgrade.

Which is still totally unnecessary... There isnt that much of a difference between the two win10 versions.

[GoodBytes]

6 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Which is still totally unnecessary... There isnt that much of a difference between the two win10 versions.

There is actually a lot. The original post only highlights "Everything YOU need to know". "YOU" used as in: most people on the forum.

Theirs is actually a lot of back end changes. Including and not limited to massive changes to the rendering engine of UWP framework apps, and changes to the core of the OS to allow new features, and bringing OneCore closer to be "one core" for each platform. I can talk about SDK changes of the OS, or the Linux subsystem changes if you want.

[Sniperfox47]

I am not a fan of Microsoft by any stretch of the imagination. I strongly dislike the way that their OS is handled and the way that they handle user issues and security.

 

That being said, the complaints they get from "power users" about Windows 10 are mostly completely unjustified and kind of ridiculous.

 

You *should* have to get all your updates even if you don't want them, because it not only protects your computer but also the computers of others. (Same reason your smart fridge and other IoT devices should have regular security updates)

 

You *should* have to provide basic telemetry back to your OS developer so that they can troubleshoot issues that relate to your Hardware  and Software configurations, because it may improve things not just for you but for other users who use that hardware/software. If they don't know that you have "Aero Glass for Windows 8.1+" installed, how are they supposed to identify some random crash that's happening because it's injecting something fucked up into their DWM code?

 

And hating on them for the fact that they're still beholden to a bloated and terrible old database that they've had to drag along ever since Windows 95 because of compatability with your legacy software and configurations for the users who are bitching about it is kind of ludicrous. Because the registry is there everything dumps shit in it, and because everything dumps shit in it, it needs to be there so programs don't lose the shit that's actually important.

 

Even if they moved away from the registry (which they do seem to be trying to do, bit by tiny bit), they'd still need to leave it there for all the Win32 apps that dump stuff there, installers and installer entries, and because all of the Win32 ecosystem just assumes it's there. Their options are either have the registry which is terrible, or badly emulate the registry on top of something else terrible.

 

Microsoft is not the best company I can think of by any stretch of the imagination, but Windows 10 is really no worse than any other OS on the market for security or user control, especially considering all the cruft it's dragging with it.

 

If you want to complain about it autoinstalling small freemium apps as advertisements then fine. That's totally a legitimate concern. But with regards to wiping settings, doing updates, and collecting telemetry, consider the position Microsoft is in, and what options they really have before you bitch about things that don't have any good alternatives.

[zMeul]

17 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

You *should* have to provide basic telemetry back to your OS developer so that they can troubleshoot issues that relate to your Hardware  and Software configurations, because it may improve things not just for you but for other users who use that hardware/software. If they don't know that you have "Aero Glass for Windows 8.1+" installed, how are they supposed to identify some random crash that's happening because it's injecting something fucked up into their DWM code?

should?!

how about you ask my permission 1st, eh

even Linux distros, that are not paid ask for permissions to upload logs in case of something, MS' Windows just does it .. and we pay 100+$ per licence - I'd expect the least amount of respect and decency for the money you pay

 

hope you realize you're painting with shit 

[Trixanity]

16 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

snip

In theory, couldn't they get rid of all the legacy crap/bloat and run it as a subsystem kinda like Linux/Bash?

Modern computers should be powerful enough to run it emulated/virtualized/whatever they need to do.

 

It seems like Windows is plagued by design choices from earlier versions that they can't fix due to legacy support.

I think it might give them more flexibility to improve reliability, performance and security by 'getting rid' of all this old crap and build the OS with a more modern foundation.

[Sniperfox47]

2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

should?!

how about you ask my permission 1st, eh

even Linux distros, that are not paid ask for permissions to upload logs in case of something, MS' Windows just does it .. and we pay 100+$ per licence - I'd expect the least amount of respect and decency for the money you pay

 

hope you realize you're painting with shit 

No. You should not be asked for permission.

 

Security updates are one thing that you should not have a right to refuse. If you drive in a way that endangers other drivers you should be taken off the road. If you use your computer in a way that endangers other computers you should be removed from it.

 

You should be able to control your computer, but not at the expense of endagering other systems around yours. If your machine is still running Windows XP it should be taken offline. Period. If you're running Windows 7 with updates turned off you should be taken offline. Period.

2 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

In theory, couldn't they get rid of all the legacy crap/bloat and run it as a subsystem kinda like Linux/Bash?

Modern computers should be powerful enough to run it emulated/virtualized/whatever they need to do.

 

It seems like Windows is plagued by design choices from earlier versions that they can't fix due to legacy support.

I think it might give them more flexibility to improve reliability, performance and security by 'getting rid' of all this old crap and build the OS with a more modern foundation.

That's pretty much what their IoT and Cloud builds are. They're pretty much just OneCoreUAP with all of the legacy Win32 crap ripped out of OneCore.

[zMeul]

4 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

-

what I say and what you reply with ....

and you say you're not a MS shill 

 

when MS' updates bricks people's PCs and disturbs their business who's fault is it? consumer's right .. because they dared to pay the licence fee

or better yet, why even power it? it won't BSOD

[Trixanity]

2 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

snip

Yes, I know but since we're running high performance desktops we need some of the legacy support and/or the full 'experience' 

So that's why I'm wondering why we can't just rip it out and stick it in a subsystem like Linux/Bash. It should be enabled by default and all that.

I think Windows would be better off in the long run if they could manage that without breaking things.

 

UWP isn't ready to replace Win32 in any case. Video games (among other things) seem to benefit from not running sandboxed with somewhat limited capabilities.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Wow. In the small time frame I worked as an intern software engineer in a Chinese company. They weren't even daring enough to think about retrieving telemetry data without user permission. 

[Sniperfox47]

4 minutes ago, zMeul said:

what I say and what you reply with ....

and you say you're not a MS shill 

 

when MS' updates bricks people's PCs and disturbs their business who's fault is it? consumer's right .. because they dared to pay the licence fee - or better yet, why even power it? it won't crash

It has nothing to do with Microsoft.

 

If you're running RHEL, SLES, Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, or any Linux Distro my opinion would be the same.

 

If you're running MacOS, iOS, FreeBSD or any other BSD my answer would be the same.

 

If you're running Android or using an IoT device? I'd settle for your OEM just offering security updates at this point >.>

 

 

[Exotath]

Dude, awesome news post!

[GoodBytes]

35 minutes ago, Valermos said:

Dude, awesome news post!

Thank you very much!

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Actually, you are. The whole upgrade process is identical as if you were to pass from Windows 7 to 8, or 8 to 10, or Windows 98/Me to XP. The install process is doing a whole OS upgrade.

Wow... that is an absolutely atrocious design by Microsoft if it's true.

GNU/Linux figured out how to do complete system upgrades, including changing kernel, while the system is on without requiring a reboot, and Microsoft can't even release an upgrade to Windows 10 without going through a complete OS upgrade process, which apparently includes resetting a bunch of user settings?

Is Windows designed by monkeys or something?

 

 

2 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

You *should* have to get all your updates even if you don't want them, because it not only protects your computer but also the computers of others. (Same reason your smart fridge and other IoT devices should have regular security updates)

No, because upgrades can cripple computers. You should definitely NOT be forced to get all the updates. How many times has an update for Windows 10 caused issues for users now? It's probably 10 times or more than a Windows 10 upgrade has crippled user systems, and it's barely 2 years old. Not to mention that Microsoft has completely broken their users' trust when they disguised an update that started collecting telemetry data on Windows 7 as a security update for Internet Explorer (I think it was that at least).

 

Update should be recommended but optional.

If you want an analogy, it's like with vaccinations. It should be recommended and *almost* mandatory to get vaccinated for certain diseases. But you get to choose when to get vaccinated, and if you are allergic to something in the vaccine then you don't need to get it (because it could be flat out dangerous).

The way Microsoft handles update is like a mad doctor that just goes around stabbing people with vaccination needles, screaming "this is for your own good".

To make the analogy even more accurate, the mad doctor Microsoft has also been caught drugging some of their patients, pretending like it was vaccines.

 

 

2 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

You *should* have to provide basic telemetry back to your OS developer so that they can troubleshoot issues that relate to your Hardware  and Software configurations, because it may improve things not just for you but for other users who use that hardware/software. If they don't know that you have "Aero Glass for Windows 8.1+" installed, how are they supposed to identify some random crash that's happening because it's injecting something fucked up into their DWM code?

No.

You should get an option to share that data if you want to help get the issue fixed. It can even be on by default if you want to ensure that the vast majority of users send data. But one of the problems with Microsoft's data collection is that they don't just collect "oh what might have caused this?" They collect a shit ton of data. Even they have said that they don't need to collect about half the data they currently do, and will try and cut back on it.

 

 

2 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Microsoft is not the best company I can think of by any stretch of the imagination, but Windows 10 is really no worse than any other OS on the market for security or user control, especially considering all the cruft it's dragging with it.

That is objectively wrong. Both GNU/Linux and OS X are better in terms of security and user control.