Should you GPS TRACK your Children?

[Guest Kloaked]

ITT: kids who obviously don't have their own kids to worry about

[Murdoch]

2 hours ago, Kloaked said:

ITT: kids who obviously don't have their own kids to worry about

In fairness, every human that has made it into adulthood thus far, has managed to do so without having their location constantly tracked by their parents.

 

I'd be curious to know what has changed, other than your "worry" as a parent.

[Guest Kloaked]

1 minute ago, Murdoch said:

In fairness, every human that has made it into adulthood thus far, has managed to do so without having their location constantly tracked by their parents.

 

I'd be curious to know what has changed, other than your "worry" as a parent.

Other than the currentYear(), minors are subject to more things than now-adults were back in the day and it's only getting worse. You would be shocked at how many kids below the age of 15 are already having sex, doing drugs, getting involved in other illegal activities, being abducted due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc etc.

 

My parents used to tout the whole "We turned out just fine without all of this smart-gadget nonsense" but then they started hearing about what's been happening to their friend's kids: they're either drug addicts, have kids out of wedlock and haven't even finished school or gotten a job yet leaving the financial responsibility to their own parents, and other problems that could be easily avoided if parents would pay more attention to their kids whereabouts. You don't have to be a helicopter parent to be a "good parent", but you don't need to be a pushover and not give a shit either.

[xnamkcor]

22 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

In fairness, every human that has made it into adulthood thus far, has managed to do so without having their location constantly tracked by their parents.

 

I'd be curious to know what has changed, other than your "worry" as a parent.

False, at least one adult alive has been tracked by their parents. And only pointing to the successes does not negate the existence of the failures.

[Murdoch]

46 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Other than the currentYear(), minors are subject to more things than now-adults were back in the day and it's only getting worse. You would be shocked at how many kids below the age of 15 are already having sex, doing drugs, getting involved in other illegal activities, being abducted due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc etc.

 

My parents used to tout the whole "We turned out just fine without all of this smart-gadget nonsense" but then they started hearing about what's been happening to their friend's kids: they're either drug addicts, have kids out of wedlock and haven't even finished school or gotten a job yet leaving the financial responsibility to their own parents, and other problems that could be easily avoided if parents would pay more attention to their kids whereabouts. You don't have to be a helicopter parent to be a "good parent", but you don't need to be a pushover and not give a shit either.

It's interesting that you consider these more of a threat nowadays than previously. I'd say a GPS tracker would have little to no effect on whether a child succumbs to drug addiction, failing school etc. I'm sure you'd agree, no substitute for good parenting.

 

The abduction thing, is a bit hard to quantify, it's an extremely rare occurrence. Perhaps, kids being groomed / lured into situations from online encounters is a new threat that didn't exist previously.

 

I think as lawlz has pointed out in this thread previously, the perception of risk outweighs the actual risk, which tends to be exacerbated by such an emotive issue such as protecting children.

 

30 minutes ago, xnamkcor said:

False, at least one adult alive has been tracked by their parents. And only pointing to the successes does not negate the existence of the failures.

Are you giving an example, or simply stating that somebody somewhere must have been tracked? haha.

 

I wasn't only pointing out the successes, I was just trying to question whether there is a "need" to GPS track children.

 

[Guest Kloaked]

1 minute ago, Murdoch said:

It's interesting that you consider these more of a threat nowadays than previously. I'd say a GPS tracker would have little to no effect on whether on drug addiction, failing school etc. I'm sure you'd agree, no substitute for good parenting.

It depends on the scenario, but I can see your point.

 

2 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

1. The abduction thing, is a bit hard to quantify, it's an extremely rare occurrence.

 

2.Perhaps, kids being groomed / lured into situations from online encounters is a new threat that didn't exist previously.

1. Very true.

 

2. The more access kids have to the internet without any supervision or something, the more at risk they are for being abducted or getting involved in things they shouldn't be involved in. It can range from simply stumbling onto porn to being befriended by a phisher on Facebook. Extreme cases do exist and could be avoided by parents paying more attention to their kids. A GPS tracker won't solve every issue. More of what I'm getting as is to not fault a parent for wanting to take more notice in their kid's life with something as simple as knowing where they are when they're not at home.

 

I also feel like I need to point out that I don't have kids.

 

7 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

I think as lawlz has pointed out in this thread previously, the perception of risk, tends to outweigh the actual risk, which tends to be exacerbated by such an emotive issue such as protecting children.

True. That could lead to helicopter parenting which is harmful to child development as they age.

[Murdoch]

2 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

2. The more access kids have to the internet without any supervision or something, the more at risk they are for being abducted or getting involved in things they shouldn't be involved in. It can range from simply stumbling onto porn to being befriended by a phisher on Facebook. Extreme cases do exist and could be avoided by parents paying more attention to their kids. A GPS tracker won't solve every issue. More of what I'm getting as is to not fault a parent for wanting to take more notice in their kid's life with something as simple as knowing where they are when they're not at home.

I don't have kids personally, but I'm actively involved in looking after / educating my niece & nephew, especially when it comes to internet etc. Kids are given access to internet connected devices so early in their development nowadays, and while it's completely natural for them to facetime friends, use instant messaging, essentially be connected. Many parents are pretty clueless about setting safe parameters within which the kids can use these devices. I am very much an advocate of supervising use of such devices (and indeed I'd say "snooping" is fine at a younger age), until you've taught them how to be aware of potential pitfalls. By mid teens, you should have raised your kid well enough to know how to navigate this safely, freedom is important to development too.

 

With that said, back on the GPS topic, I live in a low crime, very safe area that still has quite a close knit community. So for me, GPS tracking seems superfluous. That might not be the case in a different situation.

[Od0_]

I would like to see some sort of write up on the security architecture of this product. On face alone I wouldn't go near this, as a sophisticate pedophile could turn this into a target tracking app.

[xnamkcor]

22 hours ago, Murdoch said:

I wasn't only pointing out the successes, I was just trying to question whether there is a "need" to GPS track children.

 

"Need"? Answer: No. You also don't need to teach your child to swim, or ride a bike, or play basketball. Maybe you just want to.

[mbryant]

On 2/1/2017 at 5:58 AM, Natsoup said:

I was referring to more 10 and up.

In which case I suppose we agree then  

[Natsoup]

4 minutes ago, mbryant said:

In which case I suppose we agree then  

I think you're right  

[Murdoch]

5 hours ago, xnamkcor said:

"Need"? Answer: No. You also don't need to teach your child to swim, or ride a bike, or play basketball. Maybe you just want to.

 

Your posts seem to lack explicit meaning. Would you agree with the following statement?

 

This is more about the wants of the parents, that is to say, parents want to feel reassured about the safety of their children. This device is more a safety blanket for insecure parents than it is a necessary tool for protecting children.

 

[xnamkcor]

5 hours ago, Murdoch said:

 

Your posts seem to lack explicit meaning. Would you agree with the following statement?

 

This is more about the wants of the parents, that is to say, parents want to feel reassured about the safety of their children. This device is more a safety blanket for insecure parents than it is a necessary tool for protecting children.

 

As far as "protecting" a child from harm, nothing beats giving the child an FN Five-seveN.

 

This, however, is not for "protection". This is for locating and tracking.

 

"I put a GPS tracker on my truck so nobody would ever steal or damage my truck" -Nobody Ever

[Murdoch]

16 hours ago, xnamkcor said:

As far as "protecting" a child from harm, nothing beats giving the child an FN Five-seveN.

 

This, however, is not for "protection". This is for locating and tracking.

 

"I put a GPS tracker on my truck so nobody would ever steal or damage my truck" -Nobody Ever

Haha.

 

I enjoy the image of the parent that gives the child a gun for protection, but still wants to track them in-case they get lost or "abducted".

 

That would be an interesting dichotomy, trust that they are responsible enough to handle a deadly weapon without shooting themselves or their friends in the face, but don't trust they're capable of doing so without wandering off and getting lost.

[xnamkcor]

29 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

Haha.

 

I enjoy the image of the parent that gives the child a gun for protection, but still wants to track them in-case they get lost or "abducted".

 

That would be an interesting dichotomy, trust that they are responsible enough to handle a deadly weapon without shooting themselves or their friends in the face, but don't trust they're capable of doing so without wandering off and getting lost.

Motor and social skills are a bit more complicated than you think. And tournament champion martial artist can still be tricked into blowing all his money on booze and hookers.

[Murdoch]

15 hours ago, xnamkcor said:

Motor and social skills are a bit more complicated than you think. And tournament champion martial artist can still be tricked into blowing all his money on booze and hookers.

 

I agree, which is why you shouldn't neglect development of kid's common sense or social skills because you have taught them to defend themselves with guns, or you have the fall back of GPS tracking them when they mess up. Both are equally retarded, and a sign of incompetent parenting.

[xnamkcor]

1 hour ago, Murdoch said:

 

I agree, which is why you shouldn't neglect development of kid's common sense or social skills because you have taught them to defend themselves with guns, or you have the fall back of GPS tracking them when they mess up. Both are equally retarded, and a sign of incompetent parenting.

But using this device itself does not automatically mean they did not do the other things. This is just an extra layer of protection. 

Also, when you say "kids" and "defend themselves" and "social skills", it sounds like you are referring to "kids "that can be between 10 and 24.

This device is for actual small children toddlers. The ones that are effectively mentally incapable enough to do things like wander off or decide to take walks by themselves in the middle of the night.

[Zodiark1593]

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 3:41 PM, JCHelios said:

Speaking as an American, I'm tentatively in favor of it. Better than never letting him go outside by himself, as so many parents nowadays are wont to do (despite the decades-long decline in crime rates). If it can make helicopter parents less paranoid and clingy, then it's probably worth it.  

The biggest risk is entrusting all that sensitive data about your child to... sorry, who did you say ran that Indiegogo campaign?  Kidnapster, Inc.?  

Depending on how location data is stored, and how it's secured, a hacker could theoretically be able to access the location data of all these devices in the wild. 

[xnamkcor]

53 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Depending on how location data is stored, and how it's secured, a hacker could theoretically be able to access the location data of all these devices in the wild. 

What would they gain from that? As if they can't find a child. The only reason a parent tracking their child is of value is because the parent is kinda picky about which child they go home with. Children aren't invisible interdimensional beings. If someone wants a child, they can just see them.

 

PS: Unless of course we set up a database of children with certain traits so you can pick what you like(e.g. Hair color, fat, skinny, favourite color, age, etc).

"Kids in your area are waiting to be kidnapped by you. Click now!".

[E.Beadle]

Topic: GPS Tracking a child.... I'm with Linus on his thoughts.  

Thesis: The what if scenarios are scary. 

Pros:
Is there room for improvement.. Yes there is! 
Do we need to use this in a leash parent kind of way... No
Helicopter parent as others have said... No

In certain scenarios this device may be beneficial. Rather than having a GPS tracking device for older children. I would love to see one that can alert a parent of many kids that one of their children is X feet away. 

This may not be useful to a single child or a family of 3.. However, lets say you have a 8 children. or you ended up having sets of multiples at the same time. To these fortunate parents blessed with a growing family. A tracking or alert system may be extremely beneficial. Rather than having it be tied into a charm, a wrist bracelet. I would like to see options of a system implemented into a child that could be harder to identify. Clothing, Fabric, or something of that sort. Maybe something as small as the piercing of your child if you are a parent who gets the daughters ears pierced at a young age. 

I'd love to see a system implemented rather than a single device.  It would be great to see this working if your children were X amount of feet away.  Maybe if it could sense blood pressure,  to alert the parent. Or if there was a way it could send an alert to the police.  

I think GPS Tracking has some great unforeseen innovations yet to come.  Especially if we compare it to child safety of cars, car seats and other items. 

Cons: 
Can someone hack it.. Of course. We would be naive to think a networked device could not be hacked. 
Could someone trigger a false response.. No different than triggering a fire alarm in a library by leaving through the wrong door.  It can simply happen on purpose or through accidents.  One child pulled a fire alarm because the red box said to do so.  The child of the age didn't know any better. 

Does this device make it safer.. no it doesn't
In the wrong hands of the wrong parent. A tracking or alert system could make a parent be less concerned with where or what the child is doing and more concerned with the task they are initially trying to do. 

In summary / conclusion:
We have a long ways to go before something of this nature can be vastly used in a manner where it is beneficial more than the fears of "What ifs" are impaired with flaws. 
Overall, we are not there yet.  As I stated, this could lead to some devastating problems while hindering some other issues. One of those fears for me is the parent being lazy, and un aware. In the proper hands, of a proper parent an alert system (not a gps tracker) could be a great tool to use. 

Thank you linus. 

[Zodiark1593]

37 minutes ago, xnamkcor said:

What would they gain from that? As if they can't find a child. The only reason a parent tracking their child is of value is because the parent is kinda picky about which child they go home with. Children aren't invisible interdimensional beings. If someone wants a child, they can just see them.

 

PS: Unless of course we set up a database of children with certain traits so you can pick what you like(e.g. Hair color, fat, skinny, favourite color, age, etc).

"Kids in your area are waiting to be kidnapped by you. Click now!".

The gain isn't a practical one, rather one of perceived fear. Even if the location data of children is of little use to those that would do ill, the thought of the data in the hands of evil minded individuals may be enough for parents to stop using the device, and potentially sink the company/product as a result. 

 

In the world of (today's) parents, perception is as important, if not more so, than the actual risk itself. 

[xnamkcor]

38 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

The gain isn't a practical one, rather one of perceived fear. Even if the location data of children is of little use to those that would do ill, the thought of the data in the hands of evil minded individuals may be enough for parents to stop using the device, and potentially sink the company/product as a result. 

 

In the world of (today's) parents, perception is as important, if not more so, than the actual risk itself. 

Much like your perception has lead you to believe made up facts and use them as a counter argument to this product.

[Zodiark1593]

27 minutes ago, xnamkcor said:

Much like your perception has lead you to believe made up facts and use them as a counter argument to this product.

Much like how you perceive my "made up facts" to be an argument against this product. I'm not a parent, so I gain nothing from praising the product or bashing it into oblivion. And I'm certainly not aiming to bash the product here, if I gave that impression. Rather, I do not want the importance of data security to go understated just because the information itself is likely to cause little damage. 

 

While I don't necessarily claim what I said to be fact, from what I've personally seen and heard, parents lean toward being very protective of their children which can play a substantial role in their decisions. While personal experiences vary, many parents I meet know enough to operate their phones and PCs sufficiently, yet understand little of the underlying workings. 

 

Parents that are knowledgeable of technology will realize that a breach of location data is of little significance, and will probably continue using the device. The less technically inclined parents may not know this however. The point I wish to make is that the latter group may perceive such a breach to be detrimental to their child's safety, even if the actual consequence is negligible. This is why data security is important.

 

[SansVarnic]

As a parent of 5 young children I must admit Linus makes a god point of conversation here.

Not sure about whether or not I would use something like this but I can see in some cases why a parent could use it.

 

Remember these?

[rockking1379]

so this will be my post for this discussion. hopefully @LinusTech reads it and maybe even responds.

 

currently my ex-wife and i are kinda in a argument over what type of phone/device our oldest daughter (7 years old) should have. currently she has an LG GizmoPal2. it is essentially the same thing as the snowflake with the biggest differences being 1)it runs only on Verizon 2) it goes on her wrist instead of the handle little strap thing. that said, they do essentially the same thing. my ex wife doesnt like it because it reports exactly where the device is and since it is under my cell phone plan i can monitor where the device goes. so instead she has no opted to just get our daughter a standard phone on a prepaid plan and will pay for it. this actually irritates me since the device has no way to report its precise location quickly to either one of us should (heave forbid) something were to happen to her. so looking at these devices, i think for your typical going off to school kindergartner  they are great. and honestly i would encourage getting one for your kids. this world is chuck full of people who want to do terrible things and we need to be able to quickly find our little ones should that time ever come. no amount of money is ever to much to ensure that when that one time comes you can find your little one and have them returned safely. With that said there are definately issues that will arise. the biggest one i face is that my daughter simply didnt carry the Gizmo around with her and half the time when i would call to talk to her she wouldn't answer because she didnt have it with her. i havent heard of any data breaches happening with these small conencted devices but if one of them were to happen, what kind of data would the hacker have access to. and how fresh would it be? are they getting real time access to the locations of the device with corresponding registration records? that could lead to children like Linus' son potentially being targeted (dont freak out, just an example). while i find these devices to be something very convenient i also see where they can cause alarm and issues. imagine a nasty custody battle where one parent is paying for a device that can track the child. that leaves a major issue for privacy advocates and victim counselors etc about the tracking ability.

 

alright so personally i think they are okay. actually i have one running around right now but it gets removed soon since i don't see why my 7 year old daughter should have two different phones.