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The BBC is going to intercept WiFi traffic to find people watching iPlayer without paying the license fee

colonel_mortis
By colonel_mortis
in Tech News
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Posted

Something something 1984....

 

In all seriousness, the solution here is for people in the UK to stop watching BBC content, and to not use their online player. Hurt them where they will feel it, right in the wallet.

 

Not sure if that's possible though. Can you get services like DirectTV in the UK? Surely you have some options besides the BBC (I would hope)

 

Also, VPN and done.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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Posted
Just now, Centurius said:

Hey UK, 1984 was a novel, not a manual.

Western governments seem to be overrun with morons who think it was a manual, rather than a warning.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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Posted (edited)

Suck my VPN :D

Edited by Flitter

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35 minutes ago, Flibblebot said:

I call bullshit on this. The wifi traffic is encrypted between a device and the router, so they won't be able to see any actual data, only the number of packets being transmitted between a device and the router. I'm sure that the BBC servers are handling thousands (at least) of requests a second, so to be able to see a random packet between a device and the router and be able to correlate it with a packet hitting the BBC's servers (or vice versa) is going to be virtually impossible - enough that it wouldn't be able to stand up in court if challenged. Even just saying that the BBC uses packets of a specific size wouldn't be enough to conclusively prove that an address was using the iPlayer service.

 

(For those that don't remember, the old style licensing vans used to rely on reading the EM emissions produced by CRT sets to recreate the TV picture and prove that an unlicensed property was watching BBC channels)

as per the article 

 

Quote

Researchers at University College London disclosed that they had used a laptop running freely available software to identify Skype internet phone calls passing over encrypted Wi-Fi, without needing to crack the network password.

so It seems that they are found a way to identify a type of packet over without without needing to break the encryption.

 

also

Quote

The corporation has been given legal dispensation to use the new technology, which is typically only available to crime-fighting agencies, to enforce the new requirement that people watching BBC programmes via the iPlayer must have a TV licence.

They have been given legal power to do so. It would likeily stand in court when challenged but the bbc could still face privacy charges depending on how the system works.

                     ¸„»°'´¸„»°'´ Vorticalbox `'°«„¸`'°«„¸
`'°«„¸¸„»°'´¸„»°'´`'°«„¸Scientia Potentia est  ¸„»°'´`'°«„¸`'°«„¸¸„»°'´

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43 minutes ago, Flibblebot said:

I call bullshit on this. The wifi traffic is encrypted between a device and the router, so they won't be able to see any actual data, only the number of packets being transmitted between a device and the router. I'm sure that the BBC servers are handling thousands (at least) of requests a second, so to be able to see a random packet between a device and the router and be able to correlate it with a packet hitting the BBC's servers (or vice versa) is going to be virtually impossible - enough that it wouldn't be able to stand up in court if challenged. Even just saying that the BBC uses packets of a specific size wouldn't be enough to conclusively prove that an address was using the iPlayer service.

 

(For those that don't remember, the old style licensing vans used to rely on reading the EM emissions produced by CRT sets to recreate the TV picture and prove that an unlicensed property was watching BBC channels)

I think this is more to identify users to look up, then use other methods to conclusively prove that they were breaking the law. The BBC uses their own video client, which means that it's probably much easier to fingerprint the pattern of packets than it would be for a lot of other services. 

38 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Something something 1984....

 

In all seriousness, the solution here is for people in the UK to stop watching BBC content, and to not use their online player. Hurt them where they will feel it, right in the wallet.

 

Not sure if that's possible though. Can you get services like DirectTV in the UK? Surely you have some options besides the BBC (I would hope)

 

Also, VPN and done.

The BBC doesn't get paid per view - there are no ads on any of their content (including their anywhere on their website) for people in the UK. 

6 minutes ago, Flitter said:

Suck my VPN :D

A vpn only encrypts the traffic, but if you have a password on your wifi the forum it's encrypted there anyway - this technology is analysing the frequency of traffic being sent over the network, not the contents of the traffic itself, so a vpn won't help. 

 

10 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

as per the article 

 

so It seems that they are found a way to identify a type of packet over without without needing to break the encryption.

 

also

They have been given legal power to do so. It would likeily stand in court when challenged but the bbc could still face privacy charges depending on how the system works.

Given that they were explicitly allowed to intercept communications in the IPA, I think they have probably whitelisted from other relevant legislation, if it exists, too. They aren't actually reading traffic, just analysing "metadata", so I suspect a lot of protections don't apply anyway. 

HTTP/2 203

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Posted

I really couldn't care less about this, I have a Linux freesat box that allows me to get every sky channel for a really small payment (£30 a year) so i only ever watch TV via satellite and never use Iplayer, come at me BBC. 

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The idea of a licence fee confuses me... surely that kind of thing should simply be included in ones taxes?

"The wheel?" "No thanks, I'll walk, its more natural" - thus was the beginning of the doom of the Human race.
Cheese monger.

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19 minutes ago, Serin said:

The idea of a licence fee confuses me... surely that kind of thing should simply be included in ones taxes?

Nope, if you declare that you don't watch relevant content then you don't have to pay it. Adding it to taxes would make it indiscriminate. Also how would that work in HMOs and for landlords etc? 

 

That said in September they're making it so there are no exceptions so everyone who watches TV or streams catch up will have to pay no matter what. 

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6 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I really couldn't care less about this, I have a Linux freesat box that allows me to get every sky channel for a really small payment (£30 a year) so i only ever watch TV via satellite and never use Iplayer, come at me BBC. 

The licence covers any and all terrestrial viewing alongside iPlayer.

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Posted

what is the bbc? o yes i remember its that thing top gear used to be on lol :P 

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What about a VPN?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
12 minutes ago, Quinnbeast said:

The licence covers any and all terrestrial viewing alongside iPlayer.

Oh yeah, I know and we are covered by a license that I pay my landlord in my rent each month. I was referring specifically to them trying to look at my WiFi. Good luck with that one. 

 

Also it doesn't cover iPlayer till September. 

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13 minutes ago, Serin said:

The idea of a licence fee confuses me... surely that kind of thing should simply be included in ones taxes?

It's just one of many forms of payment model you might have for a service. It sits somewhere between a household tax and a subscription (kinda) - the problem comes from the difficulty in policing broadcast channels that don't require an account of sorts. Taxation would suggest that it's a vital service, which it isn't.

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well... if the people, democratically,  voted for this new law, then i don't see why we should complain about. They clearly wanted this to happen if the law has passed.

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48 minutes ago, colonel_mortis said:

I think this is more to identify users to look up, then use other methods to conclusively prove that they were breaking the law. The BBC uses their own video client, which means that it's probably much easier to fingerprint the pattern of packets than it would be for a lot of other services. 

The BBC doesn't get paid per view - there are no ads on any of their content (including their anywhere on their website) for people in the UK. 

A vpn only encrypts the traffic, but if you have a password on your wifi the forum it's encrypted there anyway - this technology is analysing the frequency of traffic being sent over the network, not the contents of the traffic itself, so a vpn won't help. 

 

Given that they were explicitly allowed to intercept communications in the IPA, I think they have probably whitelisted from other relevant legislation, if it exists, too. They aren't actually reading traffic, just analysing "metadata", so I suspect a lot of protections don't apply anyway. 

True.

 

So don't pay, and don't watch. Or do you have to pay for the BBC, even if you don't watch it? Not sure how that works.

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39 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I really couldn't care less about this, I have a Linux freesat box that allows me to get every sky channel for a really small payment (£30 a year) so i only ever watch TV via satellite and never use Iplayer, come at me BBC. 

if you're watching live tv, regardless of the source or broadcast material regardless of when it was broadcast you require a tv licence to view it.

 

publicly posting you're breaking the law is never a good idea.

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surely purchasing a reputable log free VPN service should bypass this snooping, get a router that can support VPNs and just run it like that, thats my plan, but I also have a TV licence so that does not bother me

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46 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Nope, if you declare that you don't watch relevant content then you don't have to pay it. Adding it to taxes would make it indiscriminate. Also how would that work in HMOs and for landlords etc? 

 

That said in September they're making it so there are no exceptions so everyone who watches TV or streams catch up will have to pay no matter what. 


Presumably the same way it works here in Australia. The ABC and its various offspring is publicly funded and has no ad's yet no licence free and as far as I'm aware zero controversy,(aside from the occasional far right rant of course).

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Fucking disgraceful. I have a TV license, but this is some 1984 shit.

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Can you not just hide your SSID and then they won't scan for your WiFI signal?

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This is why I use netflix. I can see why they would do this but its wrong and stupid.

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What if i build my house to act as a big Faraday cage?

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54 minutes ago, ThinkWithPortals said:

Fucking disgraceful. I have a TV license, but this is some 1984 shit.

I think the UK Government are a little older and a little more of your garden variety Technically illiterate dinosaur xD.

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