Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[kaaona]

Ok maybe we're crazy, maybe it's just that developers implement lower lod, more complicated geometry, and higher res textures that cause aliasing with every title to appeal to the masses. And as discussed in this thread the average joe is blind enough to not see aliasing but "consumer genius" enough to ask for sharper textures in every realase. I have a 5k 27 inch monitor and i can only get rid of aliasing with 5k plus x8 SGTSSAA (is that acryonm correct?).

But then its gone for good. Performance is absymal even with exreme hardware though. 

But the shadow stuff is there, i'm guessing devs just don't spend enough time on shadows.

[Evolution90]

4K no AA.

What aliasing?? 

 

Unless you put your face right up to the screen... it's not there, and that point you are ACTIVELY looking for it which is defeating the purpose of even playing a video game.

 

On 8/6/2016 at 3:26 AM, KenjiD5 said:

***PLEASE READ ENTIRE OP BEFORE POSTING***

 

Edited by: @MEC-777

 

The issues being discussed in this thread are a continuation of multiple threads come and gone over the last year or so. Please read this post CAREFULLY in it's entirety BEFORE replying, to avoid re-hashing the same thing over and over. 

 

Description of the Problems/Issues:

A significant number of PC gamers have reported experiencing some or all of the following graphical issues after changing nothing with their system. Everything looked "fine" one day and "terrible" the next. The difference or change was/is drastic and disruptive enough to notice beyond what is normally accepted as "typical graphical anomalies" observed in various games. 

 

-Most or all forms of AA filtering broken or non-effective.  

-Increased texture, shadow pop-in, Z-fighting.

-Shadows appear more jagged.

-Increased "flickering" on high-detailed objects (due to poor/broken AA filtering) - "dancing white dots" during movement.

-General decrease in LOD in all games (new and old).

 

PLEASE NOTE: These issue go beyond typical and commonly known graphical issues with certain games. Example: GTA5 - LOD box definition, object pop-in, Minecraft - anisotropic filtering bug etc. The specific issues in question also go beyond the results of low detail settings and or low PPI displays and any combination there of. The issue is: specific aspects of how the image is rendered has changed from a higher to [much] lower quality, without having changed anything (to the user's knowledge), seemingly "overnight". 

 

ALSO NOTE: These issues have been observed on Intel and AMD (FM2+ and AM3+ or older)-based systems, running both Nvidia and AMD GPUs. It has also been primarily observed on systems running Windows. 

 

Here is an example of the difference. Both videos are running the same game on the same display with the same resolution and graphics settings. @BuckGup first noticed the excessive jaggies in the menu of this game one day, and that was the first tip-off that something had changed (went wrong), even though he did not change anything prior to this happening. This also serves to demonstrate that as far as we know, the problem is fixed after switching to the AMD Ryzen platform. 

 

Before Ryzen (after the problem occurred):

 

 

After Ryzen (before the problem occurred, and the way the game SHOULD look):

 

 

Solution that have been attempted but did not fix the issue:

-Swapping out every component in the PC (one at a time and all together).

-Reformat and clean OS install.

-Switching from AMD to Nvidia and reverse. 

-Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10.

-Running DDU with clean driver installation.

 

In *some* instances, swapping out components from one system (with the problem) to another system (without the problem), the issue was gone.  ***Details on this to be updated shortly***

 

Solutions we know have ZERO effect on the issue or are unrelated:

-"Dirty power" or power-related. By the very nature of how a GPU functions and given the multiple "power-cleaning and conditioning" stages before it reaches the PC and GPU (PSU, VRMs etc), it's simply not possible for this issue to be caused by "dirty" or "infected" power source. So please do not suggest it. 

-Running games at lower settings and/or on lower PPI (lower pixel density) displays. We all know games look worse in those conditions. That is NOT what this issue is about. Please see the notes already stated above to reiterate. The issue is about an instant decrease in graphical fidelity without having changed anything (settings/software or hardware) with the system.

-Virus or software "infection" of some kind. If this were the case, a simple wipe or swapping out of the storage drive(s) and clean OS install would fix the issue - but that has not been the case. So it seems; once the issue is there, it is extremely difficult to fix, aside from taking drastic measures. 

 

Possible solutions that have yet to be confirmed:

-In *some* cases, building an entirely new system fixed the issue. In *some* cases, this fixed the issue, but only temporarily. 

-One member  Now two(2) members here on the forums recently upgraded to AMD's new Ryzen platform and observed nearly all these issues were resolved. 2 members involved in this thread who have both experienced these issues are in the process of testing with a Ryzen based system to see if this holds merit. Updates pending... See video samples above to see the difference after switching to Ryzen. Further testing in progress... 

 

PLEASE: Do not suggest solutions that have already been attempted or that we know are unrelated, unless you have something new to bring forward that we might have overlooked. 

 

If you have any new information or corrections to the above information, please send me a PM and I will update. If you don't believe this issue is real or exists, and you have nothing to contribute, then please refrain from posting.

 

My two cents on this whole situation: At first I was very skeptical. I said "this is just low PPI, low settings, typical game issues with AA etc...". In some specific cases, it was. But there were enough people complaining about this and describing what happened in the same way (there are many more on other threads on other forums), that it made me take notice. It's not about the "graphics" but the "sudden change in graphics" - regrettably and honestly, it took me a while to realize that is what they were really talking about and trying to fix. I personally have not experienced these issues, but I am genuinely curious to see if a solution can be found for those who are stuck with this.  

 

Thanks for reading.  

 

The original OP for reference:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hello. we have a topic before like this and we are talking about the problems (already written in the title) and we met some guys who is just pure nonsense and keep talking to us like we are dumbs and i am the reason why the topic is closed.. now im so sorry and now i wont swear anymore but please let start all over again @ElijahDar @SpeedUp10 @Karalum  @SamStrecker and many other more and for the new guys who just visited this topic recently.. this is the problem we are talking about 

 

luckily we have solutions that might work so come and join us if you have these problems..we are going to help you

 

 

Fix the fucking OP, the videos, the top video is 720P resolution, the bottom one is 1080P.

 

That's why the lines on the UI are jaggied, need more proof? i will show you what those lines look like at different resolutions.

 

Remember i'm using an R9 Fury, no Nvidia GPU.

 

Rank at 720P.

 

1080P

 

1080P lines.

 

 

720P lines.

 

Convinced yet or do we need to solder that tin foil down harder?

 

Love how much bullshit is being spread in here, the two video's are using 2 different panels to show an image, one is native 720P with a much higher colour output, the other is a 1080P one pushing muddier colours.

On 8/10/2017 at 7:59 AM, lordante said:

Ok so...

I was going mad playing with  i3 4GB...
So i placed R7 370 on the 1800x build.
AND i bought something for electricity and having a battery in cas of electricity shut dawn (don't know english name in french it is called: onduleur).
I can see an improvment too. BUT, i still see those flickering lines.
To be clear, i have less flickering on railings , i have less Z-fighting. BUT i still have flickering edge in WOT and in Fortnite.
I will test other games as soon as i can.
So right now, this correct something, but not all.

You have an R7 370, you cannot push higher fidelity to deal with the jaggies, jaggies exist as a downside of 3D graphics in all 3D engines, unless it is an older game without a post processing AA that uses FSAA, MSAA (above 4x) or SSAA.

 

Tekken 7 no AA 2560x1440 (highest i can go due to Vram)

 

Has jaggies. resolution is not high enough to hide it.

Tekken 4 6x native.. no jaggies, this is above 4K.

 

[lordante]

Even if blocked the spammer:

Read ALL my post before saying stupid things:

WOT is better, no need to argue with R7 or not, I USE SAME GPU BEFORE AND AFTER.

WoT look better than with my R9 390x, my RX 580 8Gb, my r9 290x... With a r7. Nothing else to say.


For me it is CLEAR it was Intel in fault, as i even take back my older HDD, did not format, and just use game on it. (but win was a clean instal on new ssd).


If you really think flickering AA line is because of an r9 390x on an old game like dragon age origin... You are really not knowing anything about GPU and hardware!

 

[MEC-777]

 

5 hours ago, Evolution90 said:

4K no AA.

What aliasing?? 

 

Unless you put your face right up to the screen... it's not there, and that point you are ACTIVELY looking for it which is defeating the purpose of even playing a video game.

 

Fix the fucking OP, the videos, the top video is 720P resolution, the bottom one is 1080P.

 

That's why the lines on the UI are jaggied, need more proof? i will show you what those lines look like at different resolutions.

 

Remember i'm using an R9 Fury, no Nvidia GPU.

 

Rank at 720P.

 

1080P

 

1080P lines.

 

 

720P lines.

 

Convinced yet or do we need to solder that tin foil down harder?

 

Love how much bullshit is being spread in here, the two video's are using 2 different panels to show an image, one is native 720P with a much higher colour output, the other is a 1080P one pushing muddier colours.

You have an R7 370, you cannot push higher fidelity to deal with the jaggies, jaggies exist as a downside of 3D graphics in all 3D engines, unless it is an older game without a post processing AA that uses FSAA, MSAA (above 4x) or SSAA.

 

Tekken 7 no AA 2560x1440 (highest i can go due to Vram)

 

Has jaggies. resolution is not high enough to hide it.

Tekken 4 6x native.. no jaggies, this is above 4K.

 

You need to re-read the OP, plain and simple. 

 

And what purpose would there be for anyone to BS any of this? What point? 

[SpeedUp10]

On 14.8.2017 at 2:19 AM, lordante said:

Even if blocked the spammer:

Read ALL my post before saying stupid things:

WOT is better, no need to argue with R7 or not, I USE SAME GPU BEFORE AND AFTER.

WoT look better than with my R9 390x, my RX 580 8Gb, my r9 290x... With a r7. Nothing else to say.


For me it is CLEAR it was Intel in fault, as i even take back my older HDD, did not format, and just use game on it. (but win was a clean instal on new ssd).


If you really think flickering AA line is because of an r9 390x on an old game like dragon age origin... You are really not knowing anything about GPU and hardware!

 

So its fixed for you?

[lordante]

Lot of shinning/shadows troubles are.

Flickering edge is not. i Still see them. But i need to test more games.

But image in all games is better, now i need to find how to get ride of the flickering edge (all the other things are working well now).

[SpeedUp10]

4 minutes ago, lordante said:

Lot of shinning/shadows troubles are.

Flickering edge is not. i Still see them. But i need to test more games.

But image in all games is better, now i need to find how to get ride of the flickering edge (all the other things are working well now).

But maybe some flickering edges are normal? maybe all is fixed now? or u think the flickering wasnt there for you before?

[lordante]

I'm watching lot off videos, some have the same bug as me, some doesn't.

Like in WoT, i find lot of flickering edge on other's videos. But some doesn't get any. Why? I don't know.

Actualy i play a game where i have very little flickering, but he is TAA (and TAA is a bad solution at last, because it makes some other bad effects).

 

[lordante]

BTW, WoT, as i allready said, is REALLY better since ryzen, i can play without getting an "eyes" headeck (don't know english word for this, headeck caused by eyes).

 

[SpeedUp10]

34 minutes ago, lordante said:

BTW, WoT, as i allready said, is REALLY better since ryzen, i can play without getting an "eyes" headeck (don't know english word for this, headeck caused by eyes).

 

So you bought a new cpu(ryzen)/mainboard/ram/ssd + ur old gpu? and its much better now? How would u rate it overall? like 50% better or 70%?

[k4bn]

1 hour ago, lordante said:

I'm watching lot off videos, some have the same bug as me, some doesn't.

Like in WoT, i find lot of flickering edge on other's videos. But some doesn't get any. Why? I don't know.

Actualy i play a game where i have very little flickering, but he is TAA (and TAA is a bad solution at last, because it makes some other bad effects).

 

Well, since you won't provide any videos one can only speculate. My bet is that they are playing on a higher resolution, downsampling or you can't simply see it well in their videos because of compression. Note that you are still playing on 1080p(assuming based on your BF1 clip). There's still a limit one can do at that resolution. You should consider using VSR since you are using an AMD GPU. I hope you aren't using FXAA on plain 1080p on WoT and expecting it to remove the flickering, like one user pointed out. That would be the equivalent of using one fire hose to put out a giant forest fire. However, that would explain a lot.

[jinx33]

@k4bn Man, for real, you posted a lot recently on this topic claiming you red the important bits, I can understand your skepticism about all these problems people report, but you gotta stop bring back up that resolution matter. I played for 4 years on 768p on a lot of games, and could eventually afford a better laptop to play 1080p few years ago.

 

Now, what you don't seem to get, is that these problems came out of the blue, for some after hardware changes, for some after reformating, for some just after booting their system while everything was normal the day before. I never had that bad of aliasing playing native resolution, even at 768p back in the days, and anti aliasing anyway was WORKING. Hell, even 4 or 8xSGSSAA is less effective than the actuall TAA few games provide. I can't try 2K neither 4K sadly, but people tried that and report that the issue is still here anyway, with proper monitors.


Nobody can explain why suddenly LOD is horrible, popping, low res and make shadows even worse while you're not 5 meters close, as well as nobody can explain why any type of heavy AA can't even work effectively and seems just pointless. Nobody can explain why it happens just to few gamers out of a million, and it seems even odd to me that playing with a different CPU can fix it. I still think the problem is software, but from what, i have no idea.

Lordante, aside of shimmering and shadows being almost fixed, did you have any problem of poping textures/meshes as well ? If yes, is it better now ?

 

 

[k4bn]

1 hour ago, jinx33 said:

@k4bn Man, for real, you posted a lot recently on this topic claiming you red the important bits, I can understand your skepticism about all these problems people report, but you gotta stop bring back up that resolution matter. I played for 4 years on 768p on a lot of games, and could eventually afford a better laptop to play 1080p few years ago.

 

Now, what you don't seem to get, is that these problems came out of the blue, for some after hardware changes, for some after reformating, for some just after booting their system while everything was normal the day before. I never had that bad of aliasing playing native resolution, even at 768p back in the days, and anti aliasing anyway was WORKING. Hell, even 4 or 8xSGSSAA is less effective than the actuall TAA few games provide. I can't try 2K neither 4K sadly, but people tried that and report that the issue is still here anyway, with proper monitors.


Nobody can explain why suddenly LOD is horrible, popping, low res and make shadows even worse while you're not 5 meters close, as well as nobody can explain why any type of heavy AA can't even work effectively and seems just pointless. Nobody can explain why it happens just to few gamers out of a million, and it seems even odd to me that playing with a different CPU can fix it. I still think the problem is software, but from what, i have no idea.

Lordante, aside of shimmering and shadows being almost fixed, did you have any problem of poping textures/meshes as well ? If yes, is it better now ?

 

 

He asked why it's different for others in WoT, he didn't even specify any videos or anything in general, so I gave an opinion.

 

Yeah, I understood that the users here reported sudden changes with aliasing, LOD and shadows, defined as the "hard shift" in the OP.  Note that the only thing I discussed so far are 4 users who only provided videos with aliasing problems. All of those still fall under normal game behavior and I've explained them in the simplest way I could. The shadows that the TW2 user provided is a well known shadow issue with TW2 that got triggered by the mod he was using + he didn't even specify any settings, which leaves everything open to debate. Notice that I haven't commented on any LOD issues yet and I would love to, but the current active users don't seem to be having any LOD issues, or at least they haven't provided me with a video demonstrating those when I asked. Contrary to what MEC-777 said about debating compressed videos on aliasing/image quality on youtube(with which I agree), LOD problems should still be fairly apparent and the easiest to prove. 

 

For LOD issues, one must provide the game settings, otherwise you can simply assume that the user is using the lowest possible settings or medium(or the settings are bugged, great example: TW2's broken User.ini that resets itself every time you open the launcher)  which creates an "LOD bubble" around the player. Great game example for this is The Witness! There is no LOD setting in that game, but if you put everything on low/medium the game starts spawning foliage in front of you because it's optimized that way. I'd love to see some proof of this LOD stuff so I can investigate it further, with settings of course. Oh and another great example with broken LOD settings is Bioshock Infinite(at least during one of the earlier patches I think). From what I recall the game started loading textures from low res to high res 3 feet away from you if you tried to use the in-game custom graphics preset .It basically set your LOD setting to low, but this would be fixed if you configured the settings manually or used an in-game preset. From my experience UE3 has a lot of LOD problems in general.

Read one of my first posts on why some heavy AA doesn't work effectively sometimes. If you have proof of someone using heavier AA in a game and still getting a lot of shimmering/aliasing I would be happy to look into that, but I haven't seen one example of this. The only explanation for that would be if the AA hasn't been applied at all(assuming 720p+ resolution). That would probably mean that you cannot override it in the control panel because the game engine prevents the override. (Random examples: Far Cry 3, Bioshock Infinite, SOMA, Subnautica for AMD GPUs with vanilla CCC). 

TL;DR: need proof of the problems you are mentioning with settings included, otherwise it's impossible to pinpoint what the source of the "hard shift" is

[lordante]

I'm fed up to answer you...

I was playing WSR 4K on all my games before... I allready said it lower the flickering. But doesn't make it desappear.

My videos ARE IN 4K VSR or 1080P, then buffering.

[lordante]

Quote

Lordante, aside of shimmering and shadows being almost fixed, did you have any problem of poping textures/meshes as well ? If yes, is it better now ?

I have some little Z-fighting. But nothing "hard".

Hey i'm streaming a lot those days:

https://www.twitch.tv/lordanteeu

You can see by yourself, (i just need to pass the stream in 1080P because i'm in 480 right now for user with low connexion).

[k4bn]

1 hour ago, lordante said:

I'm fed up to answer you...

I was playing WSR 4K on all my games before... I allready said it lower the flickering. But doesn't make it desappear.

My videos ARE IN 4K VSR or 1080P, then buffering.

Yeah, you are fine in that case. It seems that 4k downsampling still doesn't take care of the alpha tested foliage in WoT(4:37).

 

[lordante]

Nothing to see with that; i talk about building lines for exemple.

And i have NOW, with 1800x, no more trouble with foliage, ground etc etc

 

[lordante]

BTW, in Fortnite, i can reproduce the TAA VS other AA not working well.

So lot of trouble corrrected by Ryzen change (i tested every thing else) (like in WoT ground was... how to say that, cover with flickering dust, bush too, all of this is gone) but not the AA jaggy lines.

 

[k4bn]

1 hour ago, lordante said:

Nothing to see with that; i talk about building lines for exemple.

And i have NOW, with 1800x, no more trouble with foliage, ground etc etc

 

Awesome, can't wait for you to prove that Ryzen fixes alpha test shimmer! Looking forward to the videos.

[lordante]

BTW, just come on my stream, i can answer you and change every setting you want in "live"

 

[k4bn]

1 hour ago, lordante said:

BTW, just come on my stream, i can answer you and change every setting you want in "live"

 

Need to go do something first, I'll come in 20 mins.

[lordante]

Ok i will be streaming for the next 4 to 6 hours if someone want to ask for test!

 

[Noirgheos]

Is anybody planning on getting Coffee Lake here? Maybe compare that platform to their old setup if they're having issues?

[PCGuy_5960]

3 minutes ago, Noirgheos said:

Is anybody planning on getting Coffee Lake here? 

I am  I'll probably get an 8700K

3 minutes ago, Noirgheos said:

Maybe compare that platform to their old setup if they're having issues?

I'm not sure I have this issue, so idk

[Noirgheos]

Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

I am  I'll probably get an 8700K

I'm not sure I have this issue, so idk

Exact same situation as you. Going to get an 8700K, and I'm not even sure I have this issue. Most games in DX11 just have trash AA thanks to deferred rendering, but still... DS3, Witcher 3, etc.

 

All these games have some pretty bad aliasing if you ask me.