Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[Pupyds]

19 hours ago, k4bn said:

This has already been discussed with the CS:GO game menu, it should be somewhere in the last 10 pages. I don't have a 1080p monitor with me right now, but 768p/720p resolution has the same jagged edges. Downsampling from 1080p fixes the jagged menu and it becomes properly scaled like the bottom picture, and the fonts become smaller just like in the bottom picture. Exactly the same with CS:GO, since it's basically the same game menu renderer(Valve, Source). If you are still getting the jagged edges at 1080p, try downsampling from 1440p to check if they are still there. Someone else with a 1080p monitor should test this out as well, just in case.

As for what's going on in your games, read some of my posts, since it looks like you are concerned about aliasing only.
If you aren't interested in the graphics per se, it basically boils down to: what you are seeing is called aliasing. If a heavily aliased game doesn't have great anti-aliasing(games with deferred rendering that don't have: TXAA/TAA, forward rendering: MSAA) override the game AA with graphics control panel supersampling/SGSSAA, or multisampling could work well in some games, but supersampling does it better in most cases. If the override doesn't work(the game doesn't allow it), downsampling(DSR in this case) is your best friend. If you still need any help, let me know. Tweak guide for NVIDIA cards: http://www.tweakguides.com/NVFORCE_6.html

 

Downsampling may not clear up every type of aliasing in some very problematic games, but it should do a great job in most games.

 

How to DSR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHu7K1plz8U

 

Screenshots included:

 

768p native, downsampled from 1080p, downsampled from 1440p respectively:

 

All my games were fine when i had the GTX 760, clearly graphics, the problem appears when i updated to GTX 1060, poor graphics, jagged edges, forced resolution with downsapling doesn't help much

Edited September 1, 2017 by MEC-777
Fixed font colour

[k4bn]

2 hours ago, Pupyds said:

 

All my games were fine when i had the GTX 760, clearly graphics, the problem appears when i updated to GTX 1060, poor graphics, jagged edges, forced resolution with downsapling doesn't help much

Unfortunately, I have nothing to work with here. I'd encourage you to make a video of what you are describing so I can see what you mean by poor graphics and jagged edges. Make sure to record your in-game and NVIDIA control panel settings.

 

Make sure to read my posts before doing so, I've already covered a bunch of examples with aliasing problems.

 

[Kelven]

On 06/08/2016 at 5:26 AM, KenjiD5 said:

***PLEASE READ ENTIRE OP BEFORE POSTING***

 

Edited by: @MEC-777

 

The issues being discussed in this thread are a continuation of multiple threads come and gone over the last year or so. Please read this post CAREFULLY in it's entirety BEFORE replying, to avoid re-hashing the same thing over and over. 

 

Description of the Problems/Issues:

A significant number of PC gamers have reported experiencing some or all of the following graphical issues after changing nothing with their system. Everything looked "fine" one day and "terrible" the next. The difference or change was/is drastic and disruptive enough to notice beyond what is normally accepted as "typical graphical anomalies" observed in various games. 

 

-Most or all forms of AA filtering broken or non-effective.  

-Increased texture, shadow pop-in, Z-fighting.

-Shadows appear more jagged.

-Increased "flickering" on high-detailed objects (due to poor/broken AA filtering) - "dancing white dots" during movement.

-General decrease in LOD in all games (new and old).

 

PLEASE NOTE: These issue go beyond typical and commonly known graphical issues with certain games. Example: GTA5 - LOD box definition, object pop-in, Minecraft - anisotropic filtering bug etc. The specific issues in question also go beyond the results of low detail settings and or low PPI displays and any combination there of. The issue is: specific aspects of how the image is rendered has changed from a higher to [much] lower quality, without having changed anything (to the user's knowledge), seemingly "overnight". 

 

ALSO NOTE: These issues have been observed on Intel and AMD (FM2+ and AM3+ or older)-based systems, running both Nvidia and AMD GPUs. It has also been primarily observed on systems running Windows. 

 

Here is an example of the difference. Both videos are running the same game on the same display with the same resolution and graphics settings. @BuckGup first noticed the excessive jaggies in the menu of this game one day, and that was the first tip-off that something had changed (went wrong), even though he did not change anything prior to this happening. This also serves to demonstrate that as far as we know, the problem is fixed after switching to the AMD Ryzen platform. 

 

Before Ryzen (after the problem occurred):

 

 

After Ryzen (before the problem occurred, and the way the game SHOULD look):

 

 

Solution that have been attempted but did not fix the issue:

-Swapping out every component in the PC (one at a time and all together).

-Reformat and clean OS install.

-Switching from AMD to Nvidia and reverse. 

-Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10.

-Running DDU with clean driver installation.

 

In *some* instances, swapping out components from one system (with the problem) to another system (without the problem), the issue was gone.  ***Details on this to be updated shortly***

 

Solutions we know have ZERO effect on the issue or are unrelated:

-"Dirty power" or power-related. By the very nature of how a GPU functions and given the multiple "power-cleaning and conditioning" stages before it reaches the PC and GPU (PSU, VRMs etc), it's simply not possible for this issue to be caused by "dirty" or "infected" power source. So please do not suggest it. 

-Running games at lower settings and/or on lower PPI (lower pixel density) displays. We all know games look worse in those conditions. That is NOT what this issue is about. Please see the notes already stated above to reiterate. The issue is about an instant decrease in graphical fidelity without having changed anything (settings/software or hardware) with the system.

-Virus or software "infection" of some kind. If this were the case, a simple wipe or swapping out of the storage drive(s) and clean OS install would fix the issue - but that has not been the case. So it seems; once the issue is there, it is extremely difficult to fix, aside from taking drastic measures. 

 

Possible solutions that have yet to be confirmed:

-In *some* cases, building an entirely new system fixed the issue. In *some* cases, this fixed the issue, but only temporarily. 

-One member  Now two(2) members here on the forums recently upgraded to AMD's new Ryzen platform and observed nearly all these issues were resolved. 2 members involved in this thread who have both experienced these issues are in the process of testing with a Ryzen based system to see if this holds merit. Updates pending... See video samples above to see the difference after switching to Ryzen. Further testing in progress... 

 

PLEASE: Do not suggest solutions that have already been attempted or that we know are unrelated, unless you have something new to bring forward that we might have overlooked. 

 

If you have any new information or corrections to the above information, please send me a PM and I will update. If you don't believe this issue is real or exists, and you have nothing to contribute, then please refrain from posting.

 

My two cents on this whole situation: At first I was very skeptical. I said "this is just low PPI, low settings, typical game issues with AA etc...". In some specific cases, it was. But there were enough people complaining about this and describing what happened in the same way (there are many more on other threads on other forums), that it made me take notice. It's not about the "graphics" but the "sudden change in graphics" - regrettably and honestly, it took me a while to realize that is what they were really talking about and trying to fix. I personally have not experienced these issues, but I am genuinely curious to see if a solution can be found for those who are stuck with this.  

 

Thanks for reading.  

 

The original OP for reference:

  Hide contents

 

Hello. we have a topic before like this and we are talking about the problems (already written in the title) and we met some guys who is just pure nonsense and keep talking to us like we are dumbs and i am the reason why the topic is closed.. now im so sorry and now i wont swear anymore but please let start all over again @ElijahDar @SpeedUp10 @Karalum  @SamStrecker and many other more and for the new guys who just visited this topic recently.. this is the problem we are talking about 

 

 

luckily we have solutions that might work so come and join us if you have these problems..we are going to help you

 

 

Did you find a solution?

[BuckGup]

1 hour ago, Kelven said:

Did you find a solution?

Yeah Ryzen CPUs help with some problems but not all

[Kelven]

3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah Ryzen CPUs help with some problems but not all

Do you have another solution? This problem is giving me a headache.

[BuckGup]

2 minutes ago, Kelven said:

Do you have another solution? This problem is giving me a headache.

Hahah nope. We tried basically everything and this was the only thing to give consistant results that others could also replicate 

[Kelven]

2 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Hahah nope. We tried basically everything and this was the only thing to give consistant results that others could also replicate 

I have already seen about TextureMipBias, in some games it has improved a lot

[k4bn]

15 hours ago, Kelven said:

I have already seen about TextureMipBias, in some games it has improved a lot

I'm not sure what solution you are looking for exactly, but take most of the posts in the thread with a grain of salt, including the current OP. Some users may have some specific issues which seem to be safeguarded by the statement that you cannot see them, unless you look at them in person on the monitor, thus making them impossible to solve (although the solution is most likely trivial), but in most cases I've observed that users in the thread are confused about temporal aliasing(aliasing in motion), and I hope that I've shed some light on that matter in some of my posts in the thread.

 

If changing the TextureMipBias reduced your aliasing, it's most likely that everything is working fine and you don't belong in the subgroup of users with these specific issues, so the solution you are looking for could be in one of my last posts. Note that it is usually game specific, so you may need to sometimes dig around the internet to get the desired results.

 

If we are discussing eliminating almost all aliasing in deferred shading engines that use physically based rendering, the solution you are looking for already exists, and it's called temporal supersampling(usually called TAA). The new DOOM(TSSAA), Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice, INSIDE, Alias Isolation(mod), Watch Dogs 2, Dishonored 2 etc. used it and a lot of the newer games will use it AFAIK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://de45xmedrsdbp.cloudfront.net/Resources/files/TemporalAA_small-59732822.pdf

 

Correction: Watch Dogs 2 actually uses a "decent" implementation of TXAA (not the newer Karis based TAA that I'm referring to, see PDF for more info) that takes care of temporal/shader aliasing very nicely, but it uses MSAA + filters for motion, which is very expensive for deferred shading engines. The TAA I'm talking about is much more advanced and doesn't have the huge performance hit like the older TXAA variant.

Edited October 6, 2017 by k4bn

[Kelven]

On 06/10/2017 at 12:53 PM, k4bn said:

*snip*

The problem I have is when I move the camera, but I think in some games the lack of an MSAA or TXAA increases the problem

Edited October 13, 2017 by wkdpaul

[k4bn]

6 hours ago, Kelven said:

The problem I have is when I move the camera, but I think in some games the lack of an MSAA or TXAA increases the problem

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's most likely that what you are seeing is just temporal/shader/specular aliasing. It's most prominent in newer games that use deferred rendering. However, it's also there in older games, but it's easier to fix without completely destroying your FPS, depending on your rig. In games that lack good anti-aliasing, you can still force supersampling or downsampling to reduce the aliasing, or search for mods/tweaks for the game, Alias Isolation is a great example. Hardware-wise the only thing that could help is getting a higher resolution monitor with high PPI. It's not the final solution though, you can see for yourself how 4k without proper anti-aliasing looks like. 

 

 

 

And you are correct, MSAA is one of the "proper" AA's, but only for games that use forward renderring. For games with forward rendering that lack MSAA, or games that have a lot of alpha tests(MSAA doesn't work on alpha tests, read my older posts if you need more info on this), you may be able to force supersampling or downsampling.

 

The proper AA for games with deferred rendering is temporal anti-aliasing(TAA or TXAA). If the game lacks those, again, supersample or downsample.

 

For reference, this is basically how temporal aliasing looks like on different resolutions. It's most prominent on 720p, but it somewhat reduces on 1404p. You can see the resolutions in the description of the video. The person in the video changes the resolution in the order given in the description.

 

 

If you need help for any games in particular, or if you need more info on any of this, feel free to ask.

[xquizt]

On 10/7/2017 at 11:33 AM, k4bn said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's most likely that what you are seeing is just temporal/shader/specular aliasing. It's most prominent in newer games that use deferred rendering. However, it's also there in older games, but it's easier to fix without completely destroying your FPS, depending on your rig. In games that lack good anti-aliasing, you can still force supersampling or downsampling to reduce the aliasing, or search for mods/tweaks for the game, Alias Isolation is a great example. Hardware-wise the only thing that could help is getting a higher resolution monitor with high PPI. It's not the final solution though, you can see for yourself how 4k without proper anti-aliasing looks like. 

I'm curious as to why you're here so desperately trying to convince people that this is normal, or how it should be seen. I personally started encountering this problem one day about a year and half ago and everything was aliased properly in all my games (new and old) until suddenly after reformatting one day, there was aliasing and jaggies in every game I played. This is most definitely not how my games should be displayed because I can drive to my friends house and play on his PC with 0 aliasing, and no problems just like I once didn't have. This difference was night and day when it happened, I shouldnt be distracted by terrible shaking jagged fine lines pulsating in all of my games when I'm trying to immerse and look for movement/people. This is NOT normal. It is an issue that clearly many people started to encounter. Nearly every fine line or window edge etc pulsates with aliasing when I move my mouse / look around in game. It's distracting and NOT normal, so if you don't have an actual solution to this specific aliasing problem people are having, than I would suggest you stop de-railing the thread with page-long posts telling people it's "normal" for newer games.. Can you explain why I can drive to a friends house and everything appears normal in his games? His anti-aliasing works perfectly like mine once did on every game new or old? But on my PC the aliasing is so horribly distracting its made me lose passion for gaming completely?

 

[MEC-777]

33 minutes ago, xquizt said:

I'm curious as to why you're here so desperately trying to convince people that this is normal, or how it should be seen. I personally started encountering this problem one day about a year and half ago and everything was aliased properly in all my games (new and old) until suddenly after reformatting one day, there was aliasing and jaggies in every game I played. This is most definitely not how my games should be displayed because I can drive to my friends house and play on his PC with 0 aliasing, and no problems just like I once didn't have. This difference was night and day when it happened, I shouldnt be distracted by terrible shaking jagged fine lines pulsating in all of my games when I'm trying to immerse and look for movement/people. This is NOT normal. It is an issue that clearly many people started to encounter. Nearly every fine line or window edge etc pulsates with aliasing when I move my mouse / look around in game. It's distracting and NOT normal, so if you don't have an actual solution to this specific aliasing problem people are having, than I would suggest you stop de-railing the thread with page-long posts telling people it's "normal" for newer games.. Can you explain why I can drive to a friends house and everything appears normal in his games? His anti-aliasing works perfectly like mine once did on every game new or old? But on my PC the aliasing is so horribly distracting its made me lose passion for gaming completely?

 

Are you and your friend using the same or similar sized monitor and resolution? Are you both running the game with the exact same settings? Are you running on comparable GPUs with the latest drivers?

 

I'm not denying you claims, just need to be sure all other factors are ruled out. 

[xquizt]

18 hours ago, MEC-777 said:

Are you and your friend using the same or similar sized monitor and resolution? Are you both running the game with the exact same settings? Are you running on comparable GPUs with the latest drivers?

 

I'm not denying you claims, just need to be sure all other factors are ruled out. 

Yes... Same exact monitor and resolution. Same settings in all games. We also both have nvidia cards with the same control panel settings and drivers. My games never used to need any added AA through nvidia control panel or elsewhere and everything was normal. Now even forcing high amounts of AA doesnt fix the terrible jaggies I have in all games that I used to never have regardless of settings. MEC you have been in and out of this thread for awhile, you should understand that if this was a simple fix, or something fixed through swapping hardware I would have been gone long ago but this is something thats affected my old pc and even a completely new pre-built one for over a year now. I've never dealt with a computer problem that I couldn't fix in 13 years until now. 

[k4bn]

On 10/13/2017 at 11:00 PM, xquizt said:

I'm curious as to why you're here so desperately trying to convince people that this is normal, or how it should be seen. I personally started encountering this problem one day about a year and half ago and everything was aliased properly in all my games (new and old) until suddenly after reformatting one day, there was aliasing and jaggies in every game I played. This is most definitely not how my games should be displayed because I can drive to my friends house and play on his PC with 0 aliasing, and no problems just like I once didn't have. This difference was night and day when it happened, I shouldnt be distracted by terrible shaking jagged fine lines pulsating in all of my games when I'm trying to immerse and look for movement/people. This is NOT normal. It is an issue that clearly many people started to encounter. Nearly every fine line or window edge etc pulsates with aliasing when I move my mouse / look around in game. It's distracting and NOT normal, so if you don't have an actual solution to this specific aliasing problem people are having, than I would suggest you stop de-railing the thread with page-long posts telling people it's "normal" for newer games.. Can you explain why I can drive to a friends house and everything appears normal in his games? His anti-aliasing works perfectly like mine once did on every game new or old? But on my PC the aliasing is so horribly distracting its made me lose passion for gaming completely?

 

Just because you have an issue doesn't mean everyone who stumbles upon this thread has it. Some users are simply confused about what different anti-aliasing methods do to different types of aliasing. I'm sorry that anti-aliasing isn't working for you, but a lot of my posts are mostly for people who are confused as to why, for example,  some games still have temporal/shader aliasing after applying FXAA/MLAA or SMAA, but the aliasing is gone after applying proper TAA/TXAA or supersampling/SGSSAA.

 

I'm not even going to bother responding to anything else in this post because you obviously haven't read any of my posts. 

[WuWuwww]

Hello guys, i'll join the club .......

One week ago i decided to get rid of my old gtx 970 for a new gtx 1080 on amazon (very good offer).... and something started to go really weird.

Installing the new vga,fresh installation of w10 and all the usual things.

At first the huge fps increase in all games makes me very happy but after a little while i start noticing some strange....very strange image degrading.

All my games appear very jagged, with a general decrease in LOD and quality, even on 4k DSR. Tried pretty much everything, reinstalling the S0, forcing all types of setting/AA on the Nvidia Control Panel/ Nvidia Inspector...even trying a different monitor have no effect whatsoever, the funny thing, unitll one week ago all was good with the old gpu and same monitor (aoc 1080p 144hz g-sync)

I know it's not the solution but i should request a VGA change on amazon ?

 

Video:

Full system spec:

 

Intel i5 7600k

Corsair 16 GB DDR4, 3000 MHz

Gigabyte GA-Z270-Gaming K3 Intel Z270

Corsair CX650M

MSI GeForce GTX 1080 GAMING X 8G

Windows 10 Pro x 64 1709

 

Have a nice "flickering" gamer day

[BuckGup]

6 minutes ago, WuWuwww said:

Snip

Don't return the GPU. The only fix is Ryzen at the moment. Haven't tested thread ripper so IDK if that still has it

[WuWuwww]

well....my youtube videos start showing jagged lines too....

 

[Snaid]

Hello folks,

I've been stalking this thread since 2016, ever since I upgraded from 670 to 980ti. 

I can confirm that i'm facing issues with some youtube videos as well.

 

The video below is an example, but the shimmering is more visible when the video isn't full screen (on max quality)

 

My original thread with everything i've tried so far:

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3257980/gpu-anti-aliasing-shimmering-jagged-edges-games.html

 

I have also installed fall creators update for windows 10, didn't solve anything.

 

Since this is also visible on videos, could it be a codec related issue? I usually install k-lite codec pack as soon as I install windows.

 

I also wonder if logging in to a microsoft account after a fresh install of windows (to log in to windows) results in some configuration settings being imported which could be the result of this issue?

 

Video:

 

 

[k4bn]

Please read the last pages of the thread. Temporal aliasing has been mentioned numerous times already. Last poster probably supersampled all of his games without knowledge, or is playing on a lower than native resolution. You can see aliasing in videos only if the video contains aliasing in the first place. 

 

Oh and please ignore the trolls/AMD shills and people who have no idea how 3D graphics work.

 

As for why you never noticed aliasing in videos before, that's beyond my expertise, since this is more concerned with psychology.

[Snaid]

1 hour ago, k4bn said:

Last poster probably supersampled all of his games without knowledge

I didn't use 8x spare grid super sampling when using gtx 680 because that card isn't powerful enough. Also I'm pretty sure I would know if I did as one would need nvidia inspector to do so, and I never had to use Nvidia inspector until i got my 980ti.

1 hour ago, k4bn said:

or is playing on a lower than native resolution.

Assuming that I'm doing something as silly as playing with a lower than native resolution, even after reading my post is beyond me.

 

It is pretty obvious from my post that what I have attempted so far goes way beyond playing games on a lower than native resolution.

 

1 hour ago, k4bn said:

Oh and please ignore the trolls/AMD shills and people who have no idea how 3D graphics work.

 

As for why you never noticed aliasing in videos before, that's beyond my expertise, since this is more concerned with psychology.

I mean, i don't know, you have a bunch of people who are facing the same problem, yet instead of helping you offer high context sentences that indirectly belittle them.

 

Maybe, just maybe, there are other intelligent people around with a valid, real problem, who don't have psychological issues?

 

Here's a start: as someone who spends 90% of his time gaming, I would know if an issue was previously present or not.

 

The same goes for many other posters on this thread.

 

Maybe when we show countless people videos of what we experience and they go like "Nope, we don't have this issue" then we know for sure that it is a real problem and its not psychological?

 

What about when people go over to friend's houses who play the same games yet don't have the same issue?

 

Maybe entertain the possibility that we're not all delusional?  

[k4bn]

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1024273/ please watch this video and read my posts in the thread. I'll give you a few games that I recently played for reference, so you can test them out if you wish. I havent played every  single game in existence compared to you, so I don't want to spread misinformation.

 

The only way to get rid of the specific aliasing problem you are addressing is with temporal anti-aliasing. Downsampling and supersampling can heavily reduce it however. This is applied only for games that use deferred rendering and PBR. Test out games like Alias Isolation TAA mod or games like INSIDE, DOOM or Obduction with TAA to see if everything is working properly.

 

For games with forward rendering, such as The Witness or Killing Floor, MSAA should clear up the aliasing. Note that some KF maps use alpha test for optimization, so MSAA may miss some stuff, but it should work fine in general. This applies only if you are using at least 1080p.

 

If you have problems with the games I mentioned, I will look into it.

[MEC-777]

18 hours ago, WuWuwww said:

well....my youtube videos start showing jagged lines too....

 

That's because you're watching the video in HD but in a small size window. If you're going to stream it in HD, make it full screen or make it 480p in the smaller window and that will disappear. 

[WuWuwww]

[toastybread]

i noticed it in a lot of newer games at higher native resolutions when they used mixed resolution assets.   i can't speak on what causes it, and what fixes it..    but GTA 5 an example people bring up a lot does suffer heavily from this because of mixed resolution asets im guessing.. 

 

game that is just straight up horrible about it however for me is Ghost Recon Wildlands, and yes GRW is brutal on GPUs, even n Nvidia's and it is a gameworks title, but it doesn't seem to be a GPU load issue..  does weird flickering, shimmering, jaggy edges and messy scaling on both AMD and Nvidia cards when sampled outside of native resolutions specifically and no AA that does a good job and temporal AA method used in the game is just shameful..

[Kelven]

Has anyone found any solution or possible solution to this damn problem?

I am talking to amd support about this problem, my video card is a rx470