There's too many hate for Christians around the World

[Albatross]

2 hours ago, CtW said:

Saying that Christians are being persecuted too much is the same as saying that white people are facing intense racism. Yeah shit like that happens, but the persecution of other groups is far more significant and prevalent. Whining about it makes you seem blind to the more intense struggles that others face. You could make this argument if you were living in a country where Christians are a small minority and freedom of religion is non existent, but judging by your comments about Christian businesses and the Obama administration, you are not. You live in the US, where the majority of people are some form of christian. Christians in the US don't have to worry about being labeled a terrorist by some ignorant asshole just because of the color of their skin or how they dress. Christians don't face hatred because of who they choose to love or how they choose to identify. Christians don't get told to go home or get called racial slurs because they are different from everyone else. Before you say how Christians being "treated like second class citizens", then take a good look and all the other people who are actually being treated like second class citizens: Muslims, Minorities, LGBT people, African Americans. I'm pretty sure they have it worse off than you do.

 

I'm only going to direct certain parts of this quote because I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying to him or have an opinion on it, so:

 

I don't think mentioning the increase of Christian persecution should automatically make him "blind" to other people suffering (ignoring that later he showed that to be true, that's beside the point) nor do I think it is right to label it as "whining" as if it truly is something insignificant, like an atheist saying "I don't believe in God" and a Christian complaining that they are being discriminated against or something. We're talking about serious issues here that has seen a massive jump since 2002.

 

I have to ask though: are you aware of the severe persecution Christians are facing in places like Malaysia and some Islamic states or atheist states? How can you even weigh something like that as important or not just by the kinds of people involved? Thousands and thousands of people, including children, are being tortured brutally to death just because their belief in God is different while others are brutally murdered so their entrails can be used like jewellery. This isn't being done by just one group of people like extremist Muslims, but by Hindus, atheist states and many others. I do not believe the OP was only talking about the decline of treatment of Christians in the U.S (whether or not that is true) just because he mentioned things happening here, evident to his mentioning refugees denied access into the U.S yet thousands and thousands of Muslim Syrian and the like refugees are granted access with little to no argument.

 

If you Google some events of persecution of Christians or their immigration you will get horror stories from countries like Syria, Iraq, Libya etc etc. Hundreds of thousands of Christians had to flee from their countries since the rise of ISIL and other extremists (such as those around Mosul Iraq), and that's not counting countries that have been at this hatred before ISIL emerged, like Nigeria and North Korea, and have no hopes of escape or recognition or help. That's millions of people across the globe suffering by different hands in many different methods, yet you think because it isn't displayed on the media like mass shootings or racists/bigots are that it isn't something to worry about, that it is something "insignificant"? If that's what you feel/belief, you are essentially saying these Christians lives don't matter at all.

 

Christians aren't treated differently for their faith? That is incorrect. You need to understand that discrimination, bigotry and the like isn't "less" of what it is because it happens to a "less" amount of people nor does the suffering of others races, religious people or gay people make the suffering of Christians or anyone else really any less important or severe/insignificant. They face it daily, just not in front of you or in more civilized and modernized countries, so with that you think it doesn't exist or isn't as important. Your denial or ignorance of these events does not mean it doesn't exist though or isn't more than a "handful". The fact that you believe this way proves some part of what the OP was trying to say (whether or not he is a bigot himself or a troll) and that is when it happens to Christians it's "who cares?".

 

I would have to ask this now: are the Yazidis or peaceful Muslims suffering by ISIL and other threats—hunted down like rabid animals—also insignificant because you don't see it too much on tv or something?

 

3 hours ago, CtW said:

Your comment about religious businesses being shut down really pisses me off. LGBT people aren't starting a which hunt because a business is religious. They are trying to get normal service and be treated like human beings, rather than being told that they aren't welcome in a store because of something that is out of their control. 

 

Yeah some Christians get treated like absolute shit. It sucks and it needs to stop. Other people get treated like shit too and that needs to stop. Plenty of people target Christians and send hate towards them and that sucks. But there are plenty of Christians who are bigoted, who do shove religion down others' throats, who spread hate to groups who don't believe the same things they do. 

 

I believe in giving everyone respect and fair treatment, no matter who they are. Once someone does something bad, they begin to lose that respect, no matter who they are. Christians are not being persecuted, assholes who disguise themselves as people of faith are. Don't get the two of them confused.

Okay, now I am confused. The first portion of your post reads off radically different than what follows You first claim Christians aren't facing serious persecution by claiming whatever they do face is insignificant/unimportant, then you say they face some real shit and it should stop and then you say they aren't facing persecution.

 

May I ask what countries you are thinking of? Only the U.S, Canada etc? Can you also explain the significance of bigoted Christians in the argument against Christians suffering from persecution or is this an answer to OP's incorrect claim that Christians don't hurt people/do terrible things? If so, don't expect him to recognize this. He's in denial because he was "taught the real history of the world".

 

"Christians aren't being persecuted, assholes who disguise themselves as people of faith are. Don't get the two of them confused." Hmm. Are you saying that if a Christian is being persecuted it isn't really a Christian because they are an "asshole" and that's somehow okay? If that's correct, are you saying that if Christians are "good" they can't or don't face persecution?

(please forgive any grammar mistakes. I wrote this without sleep, early in the morning and between a phone and shitty laptop. lol)

8 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Well, depends more on the testament you follow.  However, I really doubt there is a single Christian that follows the bible's exact words.  Otherwise they would be super strict on what they wore and ate.  On top of that, a lot of the "sins" are just laws of dead Hebrew tribes.

 

 

Share more senpai!

 

2 hours ago, apm said:

this thread is why i hate every religion.

only idiots believe in a god, whatever it may be.

it keeps people dumb.

 That is a very ignorant and incorrect statement.

 

8 hours ago, Speedyv said:

@Supermangik

 

That is the most bullshit I have ever heard. I have seen as many Christians that don't respect their mother and father as any other person of any other religion (probably much much more actually, living in the US). All you are doing is projecting your ignorance and inferiority complex. 

No, seriously, it does teach it. It is just not a lot of Christians follow it.

[stconquest]

The bullshit people come up with to try to justify a bad decision.  When Linus benchmarks God's performance, we can have a discussion.  Until such a time... believing in God can be logically called delusional, idiotic, desperate, dumb, useless, etc...
 

Pretending there is an inherent benefit to believing in a god, does not make the fact that every cited benefit will ultimately deem God useless in the equation vanish. 

 

I wonder why God is such a non factor in our lives?  What could it be?  I bet there is some bigger plan we cannot understand... sure... that sounds good.  Fucking hilarious.

 

I wonder how bad this shit will get as the need for the idea of god becomes less and less desirable.  The dumbest people on earth fuck like pigs, have many kids.  Should be interesting. 

[Citadelen]

On ‎23‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 9:18 AM, Atmos said:

-snip-

Most of the people who'll disagree with you will see someone bashing Islam and then do the cool thing to do right now and jump to it's rescue. Islam needs to be reformed as a religion, just as Christianity has been. While I quite honestly believe religion is the root of a lot of evil in the world, reform is a good step.

People like to imagine there's nothing wrong with Islam, and then silence Muslims who'll otherwise be a good reforming voice in the religion.

[greaves1111]

People in general just like to complain. For instance, I heard Amazing Grace got banned from playing somewhere because someone was crying about it. If you don't like it or "agree" with it, then just sit in silence and ignore it.

 

I hate techno music but I don't say anything when it plays at the gym. I bring headphones. *shrug*

 

Generation offended is getting more annoying as I get older. 

[Misanthrope]

15 hours ago, Sauron said:

I disagree. Stupid people act in a stupid way, regardless of their beliefs. I may not be a genius but neither do I consider myself stupid. In my experience, my life would be significantly worse if I weren't a Christian. It will vary from case to case, but I firmly believe the church is a force for good at its core. Bad apples are everywhere, don't judge us as a single entity.

So do you condone taking advantage of stupid people in an attempt to keep them stupid then? Just because we respect everyone's right to be stupid and to preach stupidity for self gain doesn't means we have to agree.

[Sauron]

Just now, Misanthrope said:

So do you condone taking advantage of stupid people in an attempt to keep them stupid then? Just because we respect everyone's right to be stupid and to preach stupidity for self gain doesn't means we have to agree.

Uhm where did I say that? All I said is that religion does not make you dumber and there are smart and dumb religious people alike.

[Misanthrope]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Uhm where did I say that? 

Religion is specifically design to make you dumber. It instructs you to abandon your free will and sense of morality to a higher power that's completely abstract and unfalsifiable. That's the definition of "dumb": Do not think for yourself, we know better. Follow this specific rules and guidelines.

 

Your apologetic argument is that not everyone who follows religion is dumb, yet many are as a direct result of following religious believes. The only way not to be dumb is to basically ignore massive chunks of the Bible or the Quran or whatever that contradict science, contradict modern sensibilities like fairness, equality, etc.

 

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Religion is specifically design to make you dumber. It instructs you to abandon your free will and sense of morality to a higher power that's completely abstract and unfalsifiable. That's the definition of "dumb".

 

Your apologetic argument is that not everyone who follows religion is dumb, yet many are as a direct result of following religious believes. The only way not to be dumb is to basically ignore massive chunks of the Bible or the Quran or whatever that contradict science, contradict modern sensibilities like fairness, equality, etc.

If you say so...

 

There is the specific notion of humanity having free will baked within Christianity. It's not about "do what I tell you OR ELSE". It's about "doing this is good for you". It's also about not placing yourself as the judge of other people.

 

I'd like to see the evidence supporting your statement that many people are dumb as a direct result of their religious beliefs, because I'm pretty sure you made it up. You seem to forget that intelligence and ignorance are completely separate. I can't speak for all religions, but I can say that Christianity has TWO testaments for a reason. We are not mindless dummies eating up whatever's written on the book to the letter. You must remember that those books have been written by men, nobody ever claimed they were suddenly dropped from the sky by God. It is open to interpretation and we use the new testament as a key to do that. Even the canonical gospels are four, not because they tell a different story but because they tell it in a different way that allows us to understand it better.

 

You seem to be biased and uninformed on the matter.

[Misanthrope]

16 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If you say so...

 

There is the specific notion of humanity having free will baked within Christianity. It's not about "do what I tell you OR ELSE". It's about "doing this is good for you". It's also about not placing yourself as the judge of other people.

 

I'd like to see the evidence supporting your statement that many people are dumb as a direct result of their religious beliefs, because I'm pretty sure you made it up. You seem to forget that intelligence and ignorance are completely separate. I can't speak for all religions, but I can say that Christianity has TWO testaments for a reason. We are not mindless dummies eating up whatever's written on the book to the letter. You must remember that those books have been written by men, nobody ever claimed they were suddenly dropped from the sky by God. It is open to interpretation and we use the new testament as a key to do that. Even the canonical gospels are four, not because they tell a different story but because they tell it in a different way that allows us to understand it better.

 

You seem to be biased and uninformed on the matter.

No: That's a misinterpretation of what's actually written on the bible: To love and obey god above all things.

 

What you're saying is basically smart people coming up with excuses for their severe cases of cognitive dissonance: trying to rationalize centuries of barbaric fucking bullshit by building Christianity into something that it is not.

 

The entire concept of "reform" in my opinion is just a compromise to continue to live in denial. It's preferable to fundamentalism sure, but it makes apologies and excuses where there are none; Atheism is the only true reformation.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

No: That's a misinterpretation of what's actually written on the bible: To love and obey god above all things.

 

What you're saying is basically smart people coming up with excuses for their severe cases of cognitive dissonance: trying to rationalize centuries of barbaric fucking bullshit by building Christianity into something that it is not.

 

The entire concept of "reform" in my opinion is just a compromise to continue to live in denial. It's preferable to fundamentalism sure, but it makes apologies and excuses where there are none.

Again, I am not speaking for Judaism, because I don't know it well enough. The Gospels state, very clearly, that you should love your neighbour as you love yourself. The commandments do NOT say you should "love and obey God above all things" as you say. Not to mention it's not like God is actively manifesting to order people around.

 

I'm also tired of people bringing up stuff like the crusades and so on as a critique to modern Christians. We don't blame today's Germany for ww2, we don't blame modern white Americans for slavery or genocide and we should not blame modern Christians for what a bunch of power hungry warmongers did in the past using religion as an excuse. Christianity is not about violence and I dare you to find any part of the Gospels that claims otherwise.

 

What reform? What excuses? Do you think you know better than me what I do or don't believe? I already told you that the Bible is a book written by men for other men and therefore must be interpreted rather than considered the direct word of God.

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

Again, I am not speaking for Judaism, because I don't know it well enough.

Come back when you do then since it's not just for Jews but for Christians as well when it comes to the old testament. Nice chatting with you though.

[apm]

9 hours ago, Albatross said:

 That is a very ignorant and incorrect statement.

nope it isnt.

religions threw us hundreds of years back in terms of science. thats a fact.

religion is for dumb people, to keep them dumb.

we dont need any religion.

[Omon_Ra]

17 minutes ago, apm said:

nope it isnt.

religions threw us hundreds of years back in terms of science. thats a fact.

religion is for dumb people, to keep them dumb.

we dont need any religion.

 

You should clarify that it's been the Western/Abrahamic (Judaism/Christianity/Islam) religions who have held back mankind's scientific progress. The early 'pagan' traditions/religions were actually quite beneficial in expanding the human understanding of the natural world around us. Look at Stonehenge and its alignment with specific equinoxes; or the Mayan calendars that mapped out the movements of the stars, planets, etc.

 

I have many issues with Christianity, from the Evangelicals and the push for 'more God in ______' to the fundamental idea of a sole creator-God who sent his only begotten son to 'save' the world. However, it's not my place to judge or castigate another person for what they believe in. If it can let you sleep sound at night and give you comfort in times of stress/need, who cares what god you praise. Just don't force me to subscribe to the same beliefs.

[BuckGup]

Very flamable thread so let's bring some peace. There probably would never have been any wars if religion didn't exist. Sorry but it is true. 

[dimitriianghelov]

44 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Very flamable thread so let's bring some peace. There probably would never have been any wars if religion didn't exist. Sorry but it is true. 

 

so true : raids  on villages for rape and goods would have never happened ,Roman Empire would have never existed, the ottoman empire would have never existed, german reich would have never existed, soviet union would have never existed, also communism wouldn't have persecuted people, because we all know that everyone in the opposition was a religious person

 

because you know every single war was because of religion

[BuckGup]

13 hours ago, dimitriianghelov said:

 

so true : raids  on villages for rape and goods would have never happened ,Roman Empire would have never existed, the ottoman empire would have never existed, german reich would have never existed, soviet union would have never existed, also communism wouldn't have persecuted people, because we all know that everyone in the opposition was a religious person

 

because you know every single war was because of religion

Yeah a large portion of them. Still happens today too, example this thread

[Speedyv]

@Albatross (quoting doesn't work)

 

I'm sure it does teach respect and stuff, but so do a lot of other religions (this is what was stressed to me the most as a Buddhist). It's pretty clear to me that OP is saying, "Christianity is the best  religion that teaches good things and therefore should not get hate. Why doesn't everybody hate on other religions more? WHY CHRISTIANITY GET SO MANY HATE!!!!"

 

But I also can't stand BS like people saying, "God sent so and so to lead us down the right path (insert some stupid, hypocritical justification)" I see a lot of these people everyday. I think OP is also against calling these people morons (which is what I would call them for developing an opinion without an iota of logic. Ohhhh noooo stop the persecution of Christianity).

 

I can't be bothered to read your wall of text but I am sure Christians are persecuted as well. But I find it ironic that by saying that OP is completely dismissing persecution of Muslims. Don't dig too deep into OP's shallow mind. 

[stconquest]

6 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Depends on how you take religion.  On one side you have people doing it for philosophy then on the other side you have extremists and cultists.  Cultists, probably the wrong word just meant people forced into it, aren't really that bad, and are usually whipped into the ideology as their parents forced them into it.  

I agree that each individual's belief is nuanced and could be considered a benefit to that particular individual.  The subjective nature of the belief becomes a major issue when individuals decide the world needs more god in it. 

 

I have put way to much thought into this subject because of the way it is set up by the community around me.  The Greek community in my city is fortunately progressive in nature.  They hold on to the religion as a tradition more than dealing in ideological absolutes. 

 

The protestant church is still enjoyable to visit even though they tend to be more hostile to non believers.  Indoctrination is a more prevalent theme there.  

 

Ultimately the choice to believe in god is personal.  I only speak out against it when it has no place in a discussion.  It is hard for "believers" to sometimes understand my stance.  What I am ultimately saying when I speak up is:  I can hear you and I know what you are saying is bullshit.  Keep it to yourself or join a church group. 

 

I have learned that I need to pick my battles carefully; to keep from yelling at everyone that makes a statement about god/jesus/whatever. 

 

@Sauron seems to be doing it right.  The belief is for him and his immediate community.  He does not want to argue against my hostility, and it is the only choice that makes sense.  I would not want to deal with me either... if I had chosen to follow religious ideology. 

 

I was thinking yesterday... What if you take an individual and raise them without the religious aspect of our community and allow that individual to develop/understand the whole range of human emotion, then take them to church to experience "god".  Would all the emotional bonds set in the real world, with tangible stimulus available, go away?  No, they would not.  An objective person would listen to the preaching and soak it up.  A relatively smart person would take that potential evidence and search to verify it in the real world.  ...and of course, no evidence beyond the preaching would be present in any part of the person's environment. 

[apm]

what really annoys me is when kids are forced into it.

do parents really think brainwashing their kids is the right thing? thats what happens in every big religion.

 

[CtW]

12 hours ago, Albatross said:

 

-snip-

My comments about lack of persecution really only relate to the US/Canada, where I assume the OP is from. I should have stated that more obviously, rather than referring to followers across the globe. I wrote the tirade in response to comments about how christians in the above mentioned countries were facing persecution, not those in the situations that you mentioned, as that seemed to be like what the OP was so fired up about. I am aware of the tragedies that are occurring in the Middle East as well as South East Asia and that the Christians there do face the same hatred and discrimination that non Christians face in North America. I really should have stated my awareness and sympathy to their struggle much more clearly than I did. 

 

My comments about assholes/bigots being the ones facing persecution really only relates to the US/Canada as good, normal Christians face next to nothing in terms of discrimination in those two nations. Those in those two nations who use their religion to spread hate (WBC, anti-LGBT preachers, etc) are getting more and more shit now and are trying to claim discrimination because people are viewing their hateful rhetoric as unacceptable. 

 

I hope that cleared my position up. 

[AshleyAshes]

I looked into this thread but all I saw was another Homophobic Christian constantly spouting off about 'The Evil Homosexual Conspiracy'.  It's about what I expected.

[colonelsofcorn]

Annoying how Obama protects the Muslims, who believe in something far more terrible than the loving religion we call Christianity. 

[Kendrick]

On July 23, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Atmos said:

Then you should fundamentally be against islam.

It preaches hate and genocide to every religion that is not islam.

It preaches death to all non-straights.

It preaches death and dismemberment to crimes.

It preaches death to rape-VICTIMS.

It preaches oppression of women.

 

Islam is fundamentally a horrible ideology. That's not racist, that's not hate-spreading, that's simply stating facts. It is non-compatible with modern day, advanced western culture, just another fact.

 

guess theres 1.1-6 muslims who arent following their religion correctly then...

[Misanthrope]

4 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

guess theres 1.1-6 muslims who arent following their religion correctly then...

Virtually no modern Christians except for a few extremist sub sects follow their religion correctly either. Religions are just stupid like that, completely incompatible with the modern world unless you cherry pick a very tiny part and ignore fundamental aspects to them that would otherwise deny you of any agency completely and utterly. 

[Mug]

6 minutes ago, colonelsofcorn said:

Annoying how Obama protects the Muslims, who believe in something far more terrible than the loving religion we call Christianity. 

Please be sarcasm ?