PSU Tier List [OLD]

[Vacras]

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

That's ancient and based on a not really great FSP plattform.

Replace it!

 

On the cheaper side. Bitfenix Whisper M, 450 or 550W (650W and higher has about double rpm of the fan).

 

I ordered the Seasonic focus plus already

yeah i thought so about the Psu as well, that's why I finally decided to swap it out.

[awesomegamer919]

here's a thought I had.

 

Why not require every T1 (Maybe T2) unit to have the full range of protections (OTP, UVP/OVP, OCP, SCP, OPP)? There are a couple that don't and if T1 represents the "best of the best" they really should...

[MEC-777]

Snagged a Cooler Master Silent Pro 1000m, this one: http://www.coolermaster.com/service/support/model/RS-A00-AMBA-J3/ for $25 today. It's for a mining rig, so doesn't have to be top-notch. 

 

It is group regulated *cringe*, but it did get a decent score on Jonny Guru at the time of testing (8.5), so I think I done good for the price. Seller had only used it for about 3 years. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, MEC-777 said:

Snagged a Cooler Master Silent Pro 1000m, this one: http://www.coolermaster.com/service/support/model/RS-A00-AMBA-J3/ for $25 today. It's for a mining rig, so doesn't have to be top-notch. 

 

It is group regulated *cringe*, but it did get a decent score on Jonny Guru at the time of testing (8.5), so I think I done good for the price. Seller had only used it for about 3 years. 

But we all know score means nothing. It's just a relative value. A TIER 1 and a TIER 3 PSU for example could have similar score from Johnny Guru.

[MEC-777]

2 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

But we all know score means nothing. It's just a relative value. A TIER 1 and a TIER 3 PSU for example could have similar score from Johnny Guru.

Well, I mean it didn't fail any tests and a good score is still better than a bad score. 

[Energycore]

12 hours ago, awesomegamer919 said:

here's a thought I had.

 

Why not require every T1 (Maybe T2) unit to have the full range of protections (OTP, UVP/OVP, OCP, SCP, OPP)? There are a couple that don't and if T1 represents the "best of the best" they really should...

Yeah I agree for T1, T2s can do away with some of the less important ones like UVP, and naturally single rail PSUs can be T1 if they only have OPP (and no OCP)

[Energycore]

3 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

But we all know score means nothing. It's just a relative value. A TIER 1 and a TIER 3 PSU for example could have similar score from Johnny Guru.

We don't just look at JG's testing results to determine tier. Our criteria are more ample and different, thus a 9.5 PSU can be T3 while a 9.0 can be T2 or even T1 depending. Also keep in mind Oklahoma's scoring has become harder as time progresses in reflection of PSUs getting better with time. So 2014's 10 might be an 8.5 today.

[turkey3_scratch]

Um I think you left OTP off that list? It's quite an important protection IMO. If the fan fails it's got an important job.

 

I'd also say UVP is very important.

[Energycore]

Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

Um I think you left OTP off that list? It's quite an important protection IMO. If the fan fails it's got an important job.

 

I'd also say UVP is very important.

Well they're all very important, but why is UVP important if I may ask?

[turkey3_scratch]

Just now, Energycore said:

Well they're all very important, but why is UVP important if I may ask?

So a low voltage doesn't kill hardware. I assume it's just as serious as a high voltage, only difference being high voltage probably results in a little more booms and bangs..

[awesomegamer919]

5 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Um I think you left OTP off that list? It's quite an important protection IMO. If the fan fails it's got an important job.

 

I'd also say UVP is very important.

OTP was the first on the list?

 

[Energycore]

Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

So a low voltage doesn't kill hardware. I assume it's just as serious as a high voltage, only difference being high voltage probably results in a little more booms and bangs..

Can hardware die from being fed low voltage.

 

I should just do my homework tbh

[turkey3_scratch]

Just now, Energycore said:

Can hardware die from being fed low voltage.

 

I should just do my homework tbh

Just now, awesomegamer919 said:

OTP was the first on the list?

 

I didn't get much sleep.

 

Yeah low voltage can kill hardware.

[Energycore]

Just now, turkey3_scratch said:

I didn't get much sleep.

 

Yeah low voltage can kill hardware.

Looks like it kills hardware not as often as overvoltage but there are some circuits that would go donezo if UV'd - like if a MOSFET is fed a high voltage but not high enough to go on, then you'd have a case of high voltage, high current being put through that FET => Lots of heat dissipated => FET might blow.

[Stefan Payne]

10 hours ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Um I think you left OTP off that list? It's quite an important protection IMO. If the fan fails it's got an important job.

 

I'd also say UVP is very important.

Every Protection a PS223/WT7527 and so on has is important!

OTP, OCP, everything should be there.

 

If nothing is there what is there to stop the PSU from exploding and killing every component inside the computer? Nothing!

 

And especially those 8pin protection ICs are one of the most underestimated things inside a PSU...

Because most of those things don't support undervoltage on +12V - though that's normally rather shitty and useless at around 9,5V, but in some really bad cases, it can prevent the worst from happening. Though OCP on minor rails is more important. 

If there is no OCP there and we are talking about a DC-DC unit, we are talking about 12V on every component on the 3,3V and/or +5V rail...

And on the Seasonic made EVGA GS550 and 550 that's totally possible - and the reason why I have one here (and used the case for a way better Platinum King 650W).

 

Long story short:
The best PSU is useless if it doesn't have good protection. That ruins everything...

There is a Thread at overclockers.com but since the last Photobucket changes youi can't see the pics and that the board caught fire!
That happens when there is a short and no protection anywhere...

 

And Hardwareluxx had two Enermax/Lepa units that did NOT switch off at all and they aborted the test at some point!

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/netzteile/29916-enermax-triathlor-eco-650w-und-lepa-maxbron-700w-im-test.html

Especially the LEPA Maxbron.

 

You really want 6V at +12V???

[Stefan Payne]

To all who thing the Seasonic S12II-Bronze (up to 620W) and M12II-Bronze (up to 620W) are good units, take a look at that:

https://www.hardwareinsights.com/seasonic-energyknight-ss-350et-t3-the-cheapest-seasonic-unit/7/

 

Yeah, totally great unit. With no OCP, OTP, loud (it's a 350W unit!!)

and voltage drop to 10,7V at 4A/3,3V and 3,15A/4,7V and 10,73V at 32,7A...

 

And 12.7V at low +12V and high minor rails load...

And up to 2100rpm at full load.

 

Why would you want this unit?
And why do you think the 520/620W version would be any better??

 

It's just not a particularly good unit. There are better options on the market...

[STRMfrmXMN]

I've found myself not really recommending the S12/M12 to people unless they have pre-Haswell hardware at this point. Should we drop it down a tier as well as rebrand units like the Antec HCG?

[LienusLateTips]

1 minute ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

I've found myself not really recommending the S12/M12 to people unless they have pre-Haswell hardware at this point. Should we drop it down a tier as well as rebrand units like the Antec HCG?

That's what i've been doing with my tier lists tbh so probably

[awesomegamer919]

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

-Snip-

TBH OCP on the +12V on a DC-DC or Indy reg PSU isn't super important IF OPP is set correctly. When OPP isn't set correctly you have the EVGA B3

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, awesomegamer919 said:

TBH OCP on the +12V on a DC-DC or Indy reg PSU isn't super important IF OPP is set correctly. When OPP isn't set correctly you have the EVGA B3

UVP is.

 

And not even that many 8pin ICs have - certainly not the HY-510N...

Have you seen the Hardwareluxx Review?? 

That is worse. MUCH worse!

The Enermax Triathlor Eco switched off at a bit over 80A - with under 10V on the +12V rail...

 

But the Lepa Maxbron is worse. Much worse. The worst thing you can possibly imagine...

Hardwareluxx aborted the Overload testing at around 100A.

100A at +12V wich dropped to 6V!

Ripple and noise through the roof at around 60A.

 

In other words:
If something is shorted, this PSU would not switch off...

And sorry, but recommending a PSU without all protections present is just bad!

Don't mention ripple and voltage regulation, all that is bullshit and secondary to the protection of the PSU! 

That is the most important part, without any questions....

 

[Stefan Payne]

5 hours ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

I've found myself not really recommending the S12/M12 to people unless they have pre-Haswell hardware at this point. Should we drop it down a tier as well as rebrand units like the Antec HCG?

S12/M12 failed in the Protection Test, so they should go down to Tier 5 because of the bad protection.

 

Antec HCG uses a better protection Chip, but in my Opinion everything group regulated should be at the buttom and only in a higher Tier when they have working protection (wich some haven't to save a Buck or two in manufacturing).

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I agree the this tier list focuses too much on ripple and voltage regulation. I used to care about that stuff a lot more but everything with DC-DC is pretty much adequate these days, I think safety and build quality should be prioritized over ripple and voltage regulation. All this "mythic" regulation jazz seems to be causing brands like EVGA to just care about performance and hinder build quality because they know what appeals to the masses.

 

OR if we are to talk about performance, I think transient response testing should be vitalized over both normal progressive load and ripple tests. No computer applies a constant load, like ever. Vreg tests are almost useless in the real-world compared to transient response testing.

[STRMfrmXMN]

8 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

S12/M12 failed in the Protection Test, so they should go down to Tier 5 because of the bad protection.

 

Antec HCG uses a better protection Chip, but in my Opinion everything group regulated should be at the buttom and only in a higher Tier when they have working protection (wich some haven't to save a Buck or two in manufacturing).

 

Where would you put the EVGA G1 then?

 

3 hours ago, turkey3_scratch said:

I agree the this tier list focuses too much on ripple and voltage regulation. I used to care about that stuff a lot more but everything with DC-DC is pretty much adequate these days, I think safety and build quality should be prioritized over ripple and voltage regulation. All this "mythic" regulation jazz seems to be causing brands like EVGA to just care about performance and hinder build quality because they know what appeals to the masses.

 

OR if we are to talk about performance, I think transient response testing should be vitalized over both normal progressive load and ripple tests. No computer applies a constant load, like ever. Vreg tests are almost useless in the real-world compared to transient response testing.

I assume the B3 is what you're mainly referencing here

 

If transient response is something you want to focus on more then that's cool. What all would you move around on the list?

[turkey3_scratch]

Just now, STRMfrmXMN said:

Where would you put the EVGA G1 then?

 

I assume the B3 is what you're mainly referencing here

 

If transient response is something you want to focus on more then that's cool. What all would you move around on the list?

Oh I don't have any specific examples these are just my own ramblings. Plus very few reviews have transient response testing, so everything is not as ideal.

[STRMfrmXMN]

5 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Oh I don't have any specific examples these are just my own ramblings. Plus very few reviews have transient response testing, so everything is not as ideal.

Alrighty, well thanks for the input. I'll be looking more for transient response in reviews in the future. 

 

Stefan mentioned moving all group-regulated units down to T5 but I still feel that's quite harsh. I can understand not wanting non-Haswell compatible PSUs in the third tier since we kind of use that as a benchmark for "start here" a lot of the time, but bumping it down to XFX XT and Antec Basiq-level seems wrong.