RX480 a letdown?

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, Tech Inquisition said:

That's why TerrorFlops are not a measure for gaming...

Yeah true, but they do measure raw compute power in theory which is something I would be interested in

[Tech Inquisition]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah true, but they do measure raw compute power in theory which is something I would be interested in

If you needed pure compute yes... but for gaming this is less so...

[JamGorby]

Speculation, such as rx480 matches gtx980 or rx480 competes with gtx1070, is almost directly the fault of the red team fanboys. I say 'almost' because AMD is the company marketing the thing. They should better control expectations and decry such fanboyism because, in the end, it only hurts them. What is AMD's part in this? Their only official benchamrks were 2 rx480's vs a gtx1080. What a stupid thing to do. Why couldn't they have done a normal single card benchmark? Why would you want such a humdrum card being associated with or mentioned even in the same sentence as a card it in no way could possibly compete with?  I thought it was a rather weird thing to do since they did it. 

You end up with shit like this, in the end....
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/amd.radeon.rx.480.price.gpu.launches.on.june.29.with.200.and.230.variants/89197.htm
 

Quote

The report also reveals that the RX 480, despite being significantly less expensive than Nvidia's latest offerings, is relatively competitive in performance and power. In a 3DMark Firestrike Ultra benchmark, the 480 cards managed to achieve a total score of 4,880 points. In comparison, the GTX 1080 garnered a 5,000-5,1000 score.

Now, no one here in their right mind would go to a site called 'Christian Today" to get the latest news on tech stuff. But this is just an example of the type of 'news' the non-techie might see. And look at their 'sources',  Yibada and WCCF tech )of course). The originators of 'leaked benchmarks' claiming the 480 is on the heels of these cards. 

Everyone always makes the same disclaimer "take this with a grain of salt". lol Looks like they saved the salt for the tears of fanboys. 

And it will happen over and over and over again. No matter how many times speculation proves to be useless. Speculation becomes truth in the minds of idiots. 


EDIT: TL;DR

Here's some 'leaked' benchmarks for the rx490. Take them with a grain of salt.  

[Kenjionigod]

5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well first there was the presentation where they compared two of them to a 1080, and we know that 2 980s compare to a 1080.  Could be that crossfire just scaled better, but,... idk.  Then there were the leaks.  Yes, those are not official and can't be trusted, but there seemed to be a large number all showing similar results, until right near the release when they started showing more 970-level performance.  And, apparently AMD outright claimed that it was similar to a 980 early on.*

 

*I'm putting a big asterisk on that last point since I don't actually recall that happening but I was told that it did.  Proof (positive or negative) pending

 

I'll admit it was probably foolish to believe it all, so I'm not trying to defend my reasoning, just explain it.

Well, I can understand what you mean. But, crossfire/SLI can just be weird sometimes... Plus, it was just in AOS which favors AMD cards. NCIX is the only people I know of that have gotten their hands on two 480s at this point, and their results show that in AOS it does beat a single 1080. But as with any game, it really needs to be supported well for it to really matter in the grander scheme of things. 

[Prysin]

8 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I'm curious about the TFLOPs figure now.  The GTX 1070 supposedly is around 6.5, which the RX 480 boasts 5.83.  Now it seems to me that the proportion between those numbers is very different than the proportion between the framerates of those two cards.  So, unless one or both of them are lying, that's interesting to say the least.  2 RX 480s working together = over 11 TFLOPS (not talking crossfire, I'm talking straight compute that should have pretty much 100% scaling).  That's a damn good value at $400 or even $500 compared to something like a GTX 1080, or 980 ti, or Titan X, or anything else I can think of right now actually.

under GPGPU Radeon cards are hitting close to their TFLOP rating. However when under graphics load, due to the design of the pipeline and whatnot, they don't. Especially for DX11.

Under DX12 we see a different story. A 390X can often get close to a 980Ti, both have close TFLOPS measurements, so it is no surprise that the 390X is AS fast as it is.

 

If you listen to this video. Raja Koduri hints to AMDs architecture, compared to console utilization, having close to 40% unused potential in desktop gaming. The difference between a R9 390X and a midrange 980Ti is just that... about 40%...

 

 

Now, i think this video is rather interesting, and it explains A LOT of things, but it also brings up a lot of questions regarding the future.

It also explains a lot about the relationship between AMD, the market and the game dev community. Which is really nice.

 

I will say, being a SVO/VP and admitting that your competitor have been better then you, and deliver great products even today. That takes balls. So i have respect for this guy. Same can somewhat be said about Tom Petersen from Nvidia, although he is a bit more evasive on the more difficult questions then Raja seems to be.

[KillDog]

2 hours ago, JamGorby said:

 

*Really big grain of salt* but the performance looks promising.

[DXMember]

we were promissed Oculus/Vive VR minimum spec for less than $250, and boy did they deliver...

[KillDog]

4 minutes ago, DXMember said:

we were promissed Oculus/Vive VR minimum spec for less than $250, and boy did they deliver...

They delivered on everything they promised, and still some people feel disappointed, because of the fanboys.

[alphaproject]

I'm actually not shocked by that score... We are talking about HMB2 here. This is what is supposed to take out the 1080. So when that comes out... Nvidia will have the 1080 Ti... you just watch. This is what I had originally thought Pascal was going to be.. all HMB2 except for maybe the 1070/1060 but I thought the 1080 and 1080 Ti would get it.

 

So even if it's true.... which I highly doubt as AMD's early benchmarks usually are always wrong, 20 fps gain on the top of the line card with insane memory isn't really THAT great. In GTA5 you'd think that the card would beat the feeble 1080 by at least 35-40%. At least you'd think.

Plus the price on the Vega cards is prolly "insane"!  Roughly $800 easy is my guess.

[balmung11]

lovely

[StormEye]

19 minutes ago, KillDog said:

 

*Really big grain of salt* but the performance looks promising.

More like entire Salt Lake

[killcomic]

3 hours ago, dizmo said:

Haha, I was going to point out how your minimum wage is so much higher so it's simply country pricing, but if the 390x is that cheap then that's a little...odd.

Normally you get the "Well, Australia's living standards are much higher than the USA so we'll gouge you silly", but this time... Man! They're not even trying to hide it! They are simply ripping us off! There's no excuse for the massive price hike other than sheer greed.

I hope (even through I doubt) that people are clever enough to vote with their wallets.

[StormEye]

1 minute ago, killcomic said:

Normally you get the "Well, Australia's living standards are much higher than the USA so we'll gouge you silly", but this time... Man! They're not even trying to hide it! They are simply ripping us off! There's no excuse for the massive price hike other than sheer greed.

I hope (even through I doubt) that people are clever enough to vote with their wallets.

Would it be cheaper to pay international shipping and get it from elsewhere?

[KillDog]

6 minutes ago, alphaproject said:

I'm actually not shocked by that score... We are talking about HMB2 here. This is what is supposed to take out the 1080. So when that comes out... Nvidia will have the 1080 Ti... you just watch. This is what I had originally thought Pascal was going to be.. all HMB2 except for maybe the 1070/1060 but I thought the 1080 and 1080 Ti would get it.

 

So even if it's true.... which I highly doubt as AMD's early benchmarks usually are always wrong, 20 fps gain on the top of the line card with insane memory isn't really THAT great. In GTA5 you'd think that the card would beat the feeble 1080 by at least 35-40%. At least you'd think.

Plus the price on the Vega cards is prolly "insane"!  Roughly $800 easy is my guess.

AMD not even announced the 490 yet. This is the reason why I hate to jump to conclusions. There is practically no info when the 490 will release or what type of hardware it will have.

[killcomic]

2 minutes ago, StormEye said:

Would it be cheaper to pay international shipping and get it from elsewhere?

I'm seriously considering my options. I'm going to wait to see what happens when custom boards show up and the GTX 1060 is announced (which apparently is going to happen mid July).

[alphaproject]

July 7th is that announcement.

[killcomic]

11 minutes ago, alphaproject said:

July 7th is that announcement.

For the 1060 or 490?

[SteveGrabowski0]

6 hours ago, dizmo said:

I think the people who are in this group aren't even looking at this card. And if they are, they shouldn't be. It's not meant for them. It's a budget card, as it's been marketed as all along. This card slots exactly where it wanted to be, and kills it.

I know this card isn't meant for the high end buyer. But it shows AMD hasn't gotten their performance per watt in check at all, which casts a ton of doubt on their high end stuff when Nvidia is getting more than 50% more performance at the same power consumption with the 1070 vs 480. When this card looked like it was 110W as rumored it would indicate they had made real improvements to their efficiency from more than just the die shrink, so that they could scale well to larger chips without having power going out of control. But now I wonder how bad the power consumption is going to be when they scale up to a ~320mm^2 die to compete with GP104, and if it's even feasible for them to scale to ~450mm^2 or larger to compete with GP102. All those rumors about power and clocks being a problem sound like they have come true when this card is running out of spec, drawing 165W through PCIE and a single 6 pin connector. AMD's failures here in getting power under control can't give one much faith in their ability to produce a larger die chip meant for the high end. AMD has been talking about power efficiency in Polaris for at least 6 months now and all they have done is match the 28 nm GM204 chips with Polaris 10 even though they're on a 14 nm node. So that gulf in performance per watt between AMD and Nvidia is still there, nothing changed with Polaris.

[JamGorby]

I completely pulled that 'benchmark' out of my ass. lol
The unmatched font for "Redeon RX 490", The colors matching Guru3d where I nicked the screenshot from. The numbers being the same as the GTX 1080 (I just basically shifted the scores down two slots, cut out the 1070's score, and types in the 490). The Smiley at the end. All clues. 

But, despite at all, still got some bites. Now, imagine if I had access to a large audience. 

[wasd]

7 hours ago, dizmo said:

Was it though? I remember it being touted as a great VR card, cheap, and a great score in Doom. Which it gets.

Also Jayz2Cents got an excellent OC on his.

Yes, 80 degrees under load. On a reference cooler. Designed to be on the quieter side, than the cooler side. You know what's only 4 degrees cooler? The GTX 1070.

It was never called a great VR card.  It was called an entry level VR.  You know what's also an entry level VR?  390 and 970.  Both gpus that the 480 seems to trade blows with.

 

Doom isn't a showcase of gpu raw performance since a puny GTX 960 runs the game fantastic.  Doom is an example of a great written game.

 

While Jayz2cents worshiped it, just about every other reviewers were disappointed.  TOT was barely able to over clock it.  Otherwise the gpu fell on its face.

 

The 1070 runs cooler as you say.  You know what's amazing, the 1070 is magnitudes more powerful than the 480.  It's like a Corvette's engine running cooler than a Honda Civic.

[Suika]

8 hours ago, dizmo said:

I'd say more the latter than the former...I don't really think AMD is to blame here.

I don't know, because I'm still bothered by the "crossfire RX 480 > GTX 1080" stunt. They basically implied the RX 480 was absolutely better than the GTX 970, rather than just trading blows, considering 970 SLI only compares to a 980 Ti, not a GTX 1080.

[StormEye]

I think this video does a good job of summarizing where the hype came from, and the details of the hype.

 

 

[Devin92]

9 hours ago, dizmo said:

Yes, 80 degrees under load. On a reference cooler. Designed to be on the quieter side, than the cooler side. You know what's only 4 degrees cooler? The GTX 1070.

You are comparing 480 with 1070? 1070 can handle much much much more load and its STILL 4 degree cooler. Where is the logic in that?!

The disappointment for me is exactly THIS. rx480 is a gtx970 and 1070 is a 980ti/titan X. BUT they have same TDP of 150W and AMD may even be lying there to actually draw 165W.

This happens in 28nm process as well. NVIDIA architecture is always more efficient. With the new 14nm process, ppl hope AMD can come back on this battle, but AMD did not deliver. Which makes one suspect they will lose the 14/16nm market as well.

Yes, there is a improvement in dollar/performance, but it is far away from enough to say AMD did a great job. I would say wait for 1060, which may fall also on 200ish usd range and we compare it with 480. This maybe the chance for AMD to come back if nvidia screw up 1060.

[Teddy07]

6 hours ago, DXMember said:

we were promissed Oculus/Vive VR minimum spec for less than $250, and boy did they deliver...

Indeed you are right. It doesnt make sense for if you buy a expensive Vive/oculus for ~900 € and then only buy a "cheap" card like the rx 480.

[alphaproject]

6 hours ago, StormEye said:

I think this video does a good job of summarizing where the hype came from, and the details of the hype.

 

 

I made a video similar to this guys and got nothing but thumbs down, was pretty funny. This guys was better because mine was just quick, LIVE, and to the point... I didn't really edit in proof of why the card was overhyped. Granted I gave too much credit to youtube thinking they might google shit. Instead they make up stuff like it was never supposed to be as good as the 980.

Well, like this guy says... if 2x480 is better than a 1080.... you sort of just conclude one card is better than a 970. 2x 970 does not beat the 1080. I got a lot of hits though relative to my subs so it is what it is.