AMD Zen CPUs will have PGA mounting systems

[Misanthrope]

21 minutes ago, Orblivion said:

And I've never had a cpu that I damaged the pins on.  It isn't as if PGA pins is a rampant problem and LGA fixed everything.

But the risk is there. More over there is no significant advantage to PGA all I've seen here is "no big deal" comments like this. 

[Doobeedoo]

Love how this is news cause majority expected different. Yet no difference at all.

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, tmcclelland455 said:

Unless you like to chuck your CPU at a wall while building your PC, you're not going to fuck the pins up. They are fairly retard-proof.

Your exaggeration is extremely disingenuous: it is far more likely for you to accidentally bend pins on the cpu by simply removing it from the box, switching to another rig, etc than it is for me to basically maneuver a mobo socket first into the corner of a case. 

[RagnarokDel]

3 hours ago, cayphed said:

The dearest mobo here in Aus is worth $670USD, if by some chance your mobo is worth more than your CPU, your being ripped off, not poking a stick at ya, just meerly pointing it out...

 

And I still think it's hilarious :D, there are i7 results similar but no one does overclocking like AMD, I doubt at the voltages used in the CPU application that pins are a benefit there, but a cost cut. But needless to say, AMD would benefit from LGA...

I never said more expensive. 

[i_build_nanosuits]

PGA huh...that doesn't look very promising.

Next thing you know, you chop a pin and they fit in an Am3+ socket and it's 5% faster than a piledriver POS.

[cayphed]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Yeah I really don't understand your point? Everyone knows that Intel CPU's of various types can overclock fairly well.

 

As you no doubt are aware, literally both of the scores above that celeron are AMD chips - eg: PGA:

http://valid.x86.fr/lpza4n

That's the top one.

 

So, yeah. Hurray for Intel getting to third place?

 

Frankly, this entire "One can OC better than the other!" argument is silly. Architecture is going to be significantly more important in the grand scheme of things then what type of socket it is.

 

So let's all drop that.

 

Really, I have seen no concrete, sourced proof that LGA is superior to PGA in any way. Yes, PGA pins bend easier. They also unbend easier and are easy to fix. LGA socket pins can bend too... good luck trying to fix that though. Each has their advantage, but it literally balances itself out.

 

What do you prefer? Easier to bend but easier to fix? Or harder to bend (But really, not that much harder) but nigh impossible to fix? Unless someone can prove that electrically, or performance wise, LGA is superior, then I'll just chalk this mostly up to "People inherently think all things AMD CPU are bad".

I originally linked to it simply because the argument was looking like LGA sockets can not over clock because it'll melt, or something else dumb, so naturally I linked it to show that indeed LGA chips do over clock well.

in regards to the placement of the chips at CPU ID, we all know the bias among willing overclockers, they'll (even I) would grab an AMD over an Intel any day.

Don't miss understand my point, I am a team red, 3/5 of my systems are pure AMD, but I am sick and tired of AMD (and the whole industry) using inferior and old crap, it's cheap on the manufacturers part, poor on the development team and worse for the consumers, simply because we end up with the same old crud, if their going to launch something new, then make it bloody new, not just a hashed remodel.

 

[cayphed]

1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

AMD are using LGA, just not on the consumer side.

This also annoys me... Why not make it available to every one?

Sure Intel take steps to prevent regular consumers from using the Xeon platform, but they do not hide it...

So why give the loyal 'team Reds' no access to the LGA socket that big business have?

[Curufinwe_wins]

Yea, I gotta say, pga is much less idiot friendly from my experience (as odd as it seems, newb peeps can be super careful placing a cpu in a socket, but just holding a cpu they fuck it up so often).

 

Not to mention as higher and higher I/O requirements mean more and more pins, I don't think it makes as much sense now to go pga as it did in the past with fewer stronger pins.

 

But really, this is like the second to last thing I care about for Zen. If it fits and ships well, sweet, I'm looking forward for BW-E prices to drop a bit and then move my entire household to x99.

[cayphed]

55 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

I never said more expensive. 

Sorry Mate, it really came off like you were implying just that.

[NumLock21]

4 minutes ago, cayphed said:

This also annoys me... Why not make it available to every one?

Sure Intel take steps to prevent regular consumers from using the Xeon platform, but they do not hide it...

So why give the loyal 'team Reds' no access to the LGA socket that big business have?

Intel did not invent the LGA socket. AMD can use the LGA socket if they like it or not.

[Arc_Jester]

1 minute ago, cayphed said:

This also annoys me... Why not make it available to every one?

Sure Intel take steps to prevent regular consumers from using the Xeon platform, but they do not hide it...

So why give the loyal 'team Reds' no access to the LGA socket that big business have?

Why does it matter? The only difference between PGA and LGA is which one the average idiot gets to first.

[suicidalfranco]

10 minutes ago, cayphed said:

I originally linked to it simply because the argument was looking like LGA sockets can not over clock because it'll melt, or something else dumb, so naturally I linked it to show that indeed LGA chips do over clock well.

in regards to the placement of the chips at CPU ID, we all know the bias among willing overclockers, they'll (even I) would grab an AMD over an Intel any day.

Don't miss understand my point, I am a team red, 3/5 of my systems are pure AMD, but I am sick and tired of AMD (and the whole industry) using inferior and old crap, it's cheap on the manufacturers part, poor on the development team and worse for the consumers, simply because we end up with the same old crud, if their going to launch something new, then make it bloody new, not just a hashed remodel.

 

by that logic should i consider a skylake CPU a simple remodel of a pentium 4?

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, cayphed said:

This also annoys me... Why not make it available to every one?

Sure Intel take steps to prevent regular consumers from using the Xeon platform, but they do not hide it...

So why give the loyal 'team Reds' no access to the LGA socket that big business have?

I'm confused - why exactly is it that you cannot access AMD enterprise grade components? You can buy them just the same as you can buy Xeon stuff.

 

When AMD launches Zen, I've no doubt they'll launch Opteron Server variants for the Enterprise market. And I've also no doubt that you will be able to buy said Opteron components at NewEgg or NCIX or your regional equivalent. So if AMD does indeed put LGA in their Zen Enterprise products, consumers are certainly free to buy that.

 

11 minutes ago, cayphed said:

I originally linked to it simply because the argument was looking like LGA sockets can not over clock because it'll melt, or something else dumb, so naturally I linked it to show that indeed LGA chips do over clock well.

in regards to the placement of the chips at CPU ID, we all know the bias among willing overclockers, they'll (even I) would grab an AMD over an Intel any day.

Don't miss understand my point, I am a team red, 3/5 of my systems are pure AMD, but I am sick and tired of AMD (and the whole industry) using inferior and old crap, it's cheap on the manufacturers part, poor on the development team and worse for the consumers, simply because we end up with the same old crud, if their going to launch something new, then make it bloody new, not just a hashed remodel.

 

Fair enough. I still disagree with the sentiment that PGA is somehow inferior. I've still yet to see anyone provide any proof to that matter. You're just moving the potential risk from the CPU to the MOBO, and in the process, making self-repairs almost impossible.

 

I literally do not care that AMD is using PGA for Zen. No big deal.

[i_build_nanosuits]

Can someone with a 4K monitor count how many pins please?!

 

 

[cayphed]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I'm confused - why exactly is it that you cannot access AMD enterprise grade components? You can buy them just the same as you can buy Xeon stuff.

 

When AMD launches Zen, I've no doubt they'll launch Opteron Server variants for the Enterprise market. And I've also no doubt that you will be able to buy said Opteron components at NewEgg or NCIX or your regional equivalent. So if AMD does indeed put LGA in their Zen Enterprise products, consumers are certainly free to buy that.

 

Fair enough. I still disagree with the sentiment that PGA is somehow inferior. I've still yet to see anyone provide any proof to that matter. You're just moving the potential risk from the CPU to the MOBO, and in the process, making self-repairs almost impossible.

 

I literally do not care that AMD is using PGA for Zen. No big deal.

Still annoys me, mostly because what can be even posted here is a hand full of Xeon's from the enterprise world, even Amazon doesn't post to Aus (the items that do aren't anything special)...

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, cayphed said:

Still annoys me, mostly because what can be even posted here is a hand full of Xeon's from the enterprise world, even Amazon doesn't post to Aus (the items that do aren't anything special)...

Oh, well, the limitations of the Enthusiast PC Market in Australia is a totally different problem

[byalexandr]

6 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Still, they aren't actually specifying what Zen is 40% faster at-because it won't be 40% faster at everything.

They said it has a 40% higher IPC in comparison to the current line of FX chips. That combined with 8 cores 16 threads I think it should be able to compete with Intel's chips.

[cayphed]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Oh, well, the limitations of the Enthusiast PC Market in Australia is a totally different problem

Yep, it annoys me still that some of the engineers for Zen studied not far from where I live...

Would be nice to see good stuff actually come home..

[cayphed]

11 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

by that logic should i consider a skylake CPU a simple remodel of a pentium 4?

As far as I'm concerned they basically are, in all honesty this sudden argument has been a great deal of fun, it still amazes me to see how many people have no real expectations for the IT industry...

And I'm really not impressed with anything currently out and yet to release, (we'll most likely wait till 2017 for Zen) what I really want to see done is 128bit computing with advanced virtualisation and super fast memory speeds, not just more of the same...

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, cayphed said:

As far as I'm concerned they basically are, in all honesty this sudden argument has been a great deal of fun, it still amazes me to see how many people have no real expectations for the IT industry...

And I'm really not impressed with anything currently out and yet to release, (we'll most likely wait till 2017 for Zen) what I really want to see done is 128bit computing with advanced virtualisation and super fast memory speeds, not just more of the same...

What exactly would be the benefit of 128-bit computing? I won't say that we'll never need 128-bit computing, but 64-bit computing serves our needs for quite some time. 64-bit is not a bottleneck in our computing environment, and won't be for some time.

 

Can you also define what you mean by "Advanced virtualisation"? What exactly would you like to add to this technology? What is missing that current VM technology cannot handle?

 

Super fast memory speeds are coming. They are increasing all the time. The problem is with higher speeds comes higher latencies, so you need to balance that out. Or we need some new revolutionary technology that will give us high speed and low latency. We might also eventually see something like HBM or HMC make it's way to the Desktop, but I cannot say what the disadvantages would be.

[LeStringMan]

20 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

Can someone with a 4K monitor count how many pins please?!

 

 

I am not the smartest person ever but i am going to say there at least 10, although a leak from earlier this year claimed socket AM4 has 1331 pins.

[cayphed]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

What exactly would be the benefit of 128-bit computing? I won't say that we'll never need 128-bit computing, but 64-bit computing serves our needs for quite some time. 64-bit is not a bottleneck in our computing environment, and won't be for some time.

 

Can you also define what you mean by "Advanced virtualisation"? What exactly would you like to add to this technology? What is missing that current VM technology cannot handle?

 

Super fast memory speeds are coming. They are increasing all the time. The problem is with higher speeds comes higher latencies, so you need to balance that out. Or we need some new revolutionary technology that will give us high speed and low latency. We might also eventually see something like HBM or HMC make it's way to the Desktop, but I cannot say what the disadvantages would be.

I'm just saying, that'll impress me.

Also I'd like to see VM in VM's completely conflict free, now wouldn't that be nice?

And I completely agree with the RAM speeds, but I'm not sure even HMB or HMC could get us there either.

My whole reason for even entertaining the argument is simply because I just don't believe ANYONE is even trying to come up with something new, ground breaking, or even useful...

[Trixanity]

4 minutes ago, cayphed said:

I'm just saying, that'll impress me.

Also I'd like to see VM in VM's completely conflict free, now wouldn't that be nice?

And I completely agree with the RAM speeds, but I'm not sure even HMB or HMC could get us there either.

My whole reason for even entertaining the argument is simply because I just don't believe ANYONE is even trying to come up with something new, ground breaking, or even useful...

Well, they are researching a bunch of different stuff but the problem is going from research to commercial product. 

I mean there are tons of things in the works that are currently problematic to try commercialize. Like mass production or materials being expensive or hard to work with. Those are probably the most common. There are also stuff like backwards compatibility, implementation with existing hardware. And a lot that of other factors not listed here. Anyway: funding for research is a bitch.

 

Graphene and memristors are probably two things that we've all heard about for a long time that just isn't there yet.

[patrickjp93]

34 minutes ago, cayphed said:

As far as I'm concerned they basically are, in all honesty this sudden argument has been a great deal of fun, it still amazes me to see how many people have no real expectations for the IT industry...

And I'm really not impressed with anything currently out and yet to release, (we'll most likely wait till 2017 for Zen) what I really want to see done is 128bit computing with advanced virtualisation and super fast memory speeds, not just more of the same...

Define advanced virtualization. As per 128-bit computing, Intel's already at 256 and moving to 512.

[suicidalfranco]

24 minutes ago, cayphed said:

I'm just saying, that'll impress me.

Also I'd like to see VM in VM's completely conflict free, now wouldn't that be nice?

And I completely agree with the RAM speeds, but I'm not sure even HMB or HMC could get us there either.

My whole reason for even entertaining the argument is simply because I just don't believe ANYONE is even trying to come up with something new, ground breaking, or even useful...

if i can conclude something from Linus' 8 gamers one CPU is that current virtualization technology are balls to the wall impressive with performances close if not identical to a non virtualized system. Don't even need a Xeon to reach it, had almost the same configuration with my 6500 (Ubuntu as the host instead of unRAID and Ubuntu and Windows (the guest OS) always running at the same time with each their own monitor).