Samsung BGA nvme ssd

[Stefan1024]

On 06/02/2016 at 6:21 AM, Ryan_Vickers said:

How hot is that going to get with what was already a hot stick now packed into a tiny square?

They only throttle when you load them 100% for >30 seconds. It's very unlikely to see this workload in a phone. When running on battery you only do a "race to sleep" . Also the CPU of the phone will overheat faster than the SSD.

[Misanthrope]

On 6/1/2016 at 11:24 PM, AlwaysFSX said:

My thoughts exactly. Current NVMe SSDs get quite toasty, that thing probably needs a waterblock on it.

Why water though? Air outta be enough. I think the bigger issue would be form factor to support cooling though there's pci-e already. 

[AlwaysFSX]

48 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Why water though? Air outta be enough. I think the bigger issue would be form factor to support cooling though there's pci-e already. 

It's a very small area of heat. Slapping a copper slug with some fins on it isn't going to do much because it can't pull enough heat out quick enough. Water at least does heat transfer pretty well for small areas.

[Misanthrope]

4 hours ago, AlwaysFSX said:

It's a very small area of heat. Slapping a copper slug with some fins on it isn't going to do much because it can't pull enough heat out quick enough. Water at least does heat transfer pretty well for small areas.

Well the area is indeed small and while a heat spreader would help then chips should be rearranged in a square and not in line. But still most mosfets do ok with smaller heatsinks and passive cooling I think Puget system did that for some m.2 

 

But ideally it needs to be rearranged as a square and on pci not unlike gpus in fact. Water blocks are mostly just out of the way on most motherboards anyway there's no way to route tubing easily and kind of small for most fittings. 

[Coaxialgamer]

Hopefully this means budget nvme ssd's in the near future ...

[DXMember]

you can fit like what? 4 or 8 of those chips on a 950Pro yet we still don't have 1TB 48-Layer VNAND version promised to us like a year ago

[vanished]

You know what's interesting is, unless I missed it, no one's commented on price yet.  What is this going to cost?  That could be why we don't see them just sticking like 30 of them in a 2.5" form factor drive and giving us insane HDD-beating capacities.

[Trixanity]

35 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

You know what's interesting is, unless I missed it, no one's commented on price yet.  What is this going to cost?  That could be why we don't see them just sticking like 30 of them in a 2.5" form factor drive and giving us insane HDD-beating capacities.

You won't be able to buy one.

It's BGA, so OEMs only. Price is therefore unknown.

[vanished]

3 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

You won't be able to buy one.

It's BGA, so OEMs only. Price is therefore unknown.

What I was getting at is there is going to be some cost to manufacture, and I think it could be quite high.  Whatever it is it will dictate the sale price of whatever products they put this into.

[Trixanity]

27 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

What I was getting at is there is going to be some cost to manufacture, and I think it could be quite high.  Whatever it is it will dictate the sale price of whatever products they put this into.

Of course but pricing is very unlikely to become public knowledge. I'm guessing it'll probably vary from OEM to OEM depending on what they can arrange (and what quantities they buy in). I agree that it's most likely quite expensive. Not only is it a small but dense product, it's supposedly unique (for now). That will drive up the cost substantially.

[Duskie]

I don't think heat will be that big of an issue, since people adding small heatsinks to M.2 SSD's cools them pretty well, i'd assume connecting this to the same heatsink of the phone would work.

[LAwLz]

I don't think we will see this in a smartphone. I don't know the z-axis measurements, but the X and Y are far larger than your average eMMC chip.

It's something like 30% bigger than NVMe chip in the iPhone (which is already quite big). It is more than twice as large (again, not even counting the z axis here) as Samsung's high performance eMMC chips.

 

It will probably be limited to tablets and bigger stuff. Really impressive that they can pack so much performance and storage in such a small space though.

[vanished]

36 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I don't think we will see this in a smartphone. I don't know the z-axis measurements, but the X and Y are far larger than your average eMMC chip.

It's something like 30% bigger than NVMe chip in the iPhone (which is already quite big). It is more than twice as large (again, not even counting the z axis here) as Samsung's high performance eMMC chips.

 

It will probably be limited to tablets and bigger stuff. Really impressive that they can pack so much performance and storage in such a small space though.

Most of phones these days is battery anyway though, is it not?  I'm sure phone makers won't hesitate to cut down what little is left for the ability to claim "__x more __ than __" on their product page

[AlTech]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 0:21 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

How hot is that going to get with what was already a hot stick now packed into a tiny square?

Very , considering that the smart thing to do would be use the left over space for a bigger battery.

[spartaman64]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't think we will see this in a smartphone. I don't know the z-axis measurements, but the X and Y are far larger than your average eMMC chip.

It's something like 30% bigger than NVMe chip in the iPhone (which is already quite big). It is more than twice as large (again, not even counting the z axis here) as Samsung's high performance eMMC chips.

 

It will probably be limited to tablets and bigger stuff. Really impressive that they can pack so much performance and storage in such a small space though.

but doesnt large capacity phones have more than 1 chip not to mention separate space for the controller

[ConnorDahne]

On 6/2/2016 at 7:21 AM, lots of unexplainable lag said:

EK, make some water blocks for this thing, please thank you.

 

The iPhone 6S(Plus) already has an PCI-e NVMe based SSD in it.

http://www.angelbird.com/en/prod/wings-px1-1117/

This is the closest I've found to a proper cooling solution for the 950.

[BuckGup]

On 6/1/2016 at 11:21 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

How hot is that going to get with what was already a hot stick now packed into a tiny square?

That is what I was thinking too

[LAwLz]

11 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Most of phones these days is battery anyway though, is it not?  I'm sure phone makers won't hesitate to cut down what little is left for the ability to claim "__x more __ than __" on their product page

The other components takes up quite a bit of space actually.

 

I guess it would be a good marketing strategy (if they can handle all the heat in such a small case).

Doesn't seem practical though.

 

 

7 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

but doesnt large capacity phones have more than 1 chip not to mention separate space for the controller

Pretty sure they don't. For example Samsung has a 128GB eMMC chip (high end one) which is a single chip with a built in controller that's 11.5x13x1.4mm.

I just noticed that the z-height for this chip is listed in the OP so we can see exactly how much bigger this one is compared to the eMMC chip.

 

eMMC = 11.5 x 13 x 1.4 = 209.3mm³

This = 20x 16 x 1.5 = 480mm³

 

This chip is 2.3 times as large. It has like 9 times the performance and 4 times the capacity, but it does not seem like most phone manufacturers value those things as much as size and cost. Would be possible to put in a phone, but not something I see happening.

 

Edit: Power consumption might be much higher as well.

[Dabombinable]

On 6/4/2016 at 7:41 PM, LAwLz said:

The other components takes up quite a bit of space actually.

 

I guess it would be a good marketing strategy (if they can handle all the heat in such a small case).

Doesn't seem practical though.

 

 

Pretty sure they don't. For example Samsung has a 128GB eMMC chip (high end one) which is a single chip with a built in controller that's 11.5x13x1.4mm.

I just noticed that the z-height for this chip is listed in the OP so we can see exactly how much bigger this one is compared to the eMMC chip.

 

eMMC = 11.5 x 13 x 1.4 = 209.3mm³

This = 20x 16 x 1.5 = 480mm³

 

This chip is 2.3 times as large. It has like 9 times the performance and 4 times the capacity, but it does not seem like most phone manufacturers value those things as much as size and cost. Would be possible to put in a phone, but not something I see happening.

 

Edit: Power consumption might be much higher as well.

But remember, the power consumption could be higher, but the components are all packed into the 1 chip after all. It was the same deal with Haswell's FIVR. Power consumption didn't seem to go down and heat output went up, but power consumption overall was reduced.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Looks like mass production has begun.

 

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-mass-producing-industrys-first-512-gigabyte-nvme-ssd-in-a-single-bga-package-for-more-flexibility-in-computing-device-design

 

So devices next year with them in? Perhaps if we are lucky we will see them by the holidays.

[SurvivorNVL]

I really look forward to these.  This should be wonderful.

[sof006]

On 02/06/2016 at 5:17 AM, failblox said:

Aaaand we're still getting 16GB iPhones from Apple in 2016...

 

This is ridiculous.

Its all about money. Apple doesn't care as long as they get money.