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Federal judge FORCES Apple to help FBI decrypt San Bernardino killers iPhone 5C

13CA350
By 13CA350
in Tech News
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Posted
1 minute ago, Stuff_ said:

You're not "giving" them access to anything. I'm not agreeing with terrorists, like you're trying to paint me with. 

 

I'm about having the ability to have the secrecy and protection of your own personal things. 

There is no real way to "deal with" terrorists. Any method you choose will come down to compromise. I hate compromise. I'm not going to have my fully encrypted device now have the ability to be unlocked, and decrypted, simply because some terrorist used the same method of security as I. 

 

The people that mandate these requests are entirely ignorant about the subject to start. The politicians have NO BACKGROUND on cryptography, and they truly have no idea what it is, except it keeps them from getting inside someones stuff; which they don't like.

 

 

 

No matter what is said you'll believe what you want I'll believe what I want.  I'm tired, just got off of work, I don't want spend the rest of my day debating on this subject.

 

In my opinion, if you take away someone else's right's, you shouldn't have any rights.  I understand people are seeing that this is more than just that one terrorists phone and opens the door to other possibility, but if it can eliminate even just one terrorist I wouldn't have a problem with that possibility.

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10 minutes ago, biggiebody said:

I don't think people realize how dangerous these terrorist are, I mean no one expected 9/11 to happen or the Paris attack until it was too late.

Terrorist is a buzz word now. By death count terrorists are at the bottom of things we should be worrying about. The Paris attack had clues that were overlooked. Having deeper access to private communications has really done nothing to catch terrorists. Politicians keep going after things the public uses saying it will help them catch terrorists yet terrorists aren't bound by the law and can use any means they want to communicate, legal or illegal. The governments are stripping away the public's privacy yet not really producing any results.

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9 hours ago, biggiebody said:

I mean no one expected 9/11 to happen or the Paris attack until it was too late.

Actually, they were kind of expected.

Bush was informed that Al-Qaeda was planning an attack several weeks before 9/11 happened.

With the Paris attack the people involved were known criminals (such as Ibrahim Abdeslam which had spent time in the same prison as Abaaoud, which was a member, possibly even leader, of a branch of IS called Katibat al-Battar al Libi).

Neither of the attacks were organized using encryption. Both of them were organized by people meeting up in person and discussing their plans. They also made unencrypted phone calls and swapped the SIM card after every call.

 

But that's the problem though. Right now all this mass surveillance is actually hindering accurate predictions. It's like finding a needle in a haystack, and each new stupid mass surveillance opportunity/law that appears only increases the amount of hay. That's why we see so much info surface AFTER an attack has occurred, because after the attack we know what to look for. With less data gathered and much more focused spying, things like these might have gotten the attention of the government before the attack happens, instead of after.

How about we start monitoring people who we know have traveled, or have connections to people who has traveled to Syria/Iraq to fight for ISIS? Maybe that should have a higher priority than to monitor the phone calls of Joe who went to a bar last night and tried to seduce Maria?

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11 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Joe who went to a bar last night and tried to seduce Maria?

But Joe might be a terrorist too. Can't run the risk of not monitoring him. /s

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28 minutes ago, biggiebody said:

No matter what is said you'll believe what you want I'll believe what I want.  I'm tired, just got off of work, I don't want spend the rest of my day debating on this subject.

 

In my opinion, if you take away someone else's right's, you shouldn't have any rights.  I understand people are seeing that this is more than just that one terrorists phone and opens the door to other possibility, but if it can eliminate even just one terrorist I wouldn't have a problem with that possibility.

You need to really study about cryptography, and the benefits of those systems for the citizens/consumers/us. It takes a while to fully comprehend the pros, which SIGNIFICANTLY outweigh the cons. I'm certain you've never done any research, and are just making your observations based on what you believe.

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Just now, Stuff_ said:

You need to really study about cryptography, and the benefits of those systems for the citizens/consumers/us. It takes a while to fully comprehend the pros, which SIGNIFICANTLY outweigh the cons. I'm certain you've never done any research, and are just making your observations based on what you believe.

Never said I was against the data being encrypted, so not sure why are you are bring that up.  All I said was I don't mind the government being able to access a known terrorist phone

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20 hours ago, carolkarine said:

BTW guys, this file apple has been ordered to provide doesn't decrypt the phone. All it does is change the unlock procedures so that the FBI won't get locked out while brute-forcing the password

That doesn't matter, once they have unlimited tries its just a matter of time before they brute force it. They can then apply it to any phone and just try to brute force the phone. It will take them a bit more time to unlock, but in the end it's just the same result.

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4 minutes ago, biggiebody said:

Never said I was against the data being encrypted, so not sure why are you are bring that up.  All I said was I don't mind the government being able to access a known terrorist phone

In this case, the encryption is only as good as the passcode. Once the passcode has been compromised, the data is fine to siphon off.

Essentially you're undermining the encryption system.

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8 hours ago, Entropy said:

Now,  I'm against governments being able to decrypt your information at will,  but if you're attached directly to the murder of multiple people...  You tossed that right to privacy away already. 

 

I get that people don't trust governments with their data,  but I don't get this notion that murderers are entitled to the same level of privacy. 

The issue is not that they are taking the murderer's privacy. No one has an issue with that. The issue is that if they take his away, it will compromise everyone else's privacy along with it. Once the FBI have the tool they can use it on anyone's phone, even for simple crimes or whenever they feel like it.

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Posted

I'm surprised, and impressed, that Apple are taking such a great stance on this. I fully agree with what they say. I only hope that more companies begin to adopt this outlook on the user's right to privacy and security.

"Be excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted
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Posted

Why are people flipping out about this. The NSA has tools like dreamy smurf were they can watch you and listen to you through your mic and camera. Not to mention farm all your meta data to see if you are a terrorist. Honestly I don't know what they are trying to find as private data once pooled together with millions of the same type become the same. Also what terrorist is going to use a smart phone 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

Pretty sure you can't be forced to aid in a police investigation if you were not involved in the crime. Apple should appeal the court order. 

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2 minutes ago, GSTARR said:

why the hell would you not

because then the fbi could ask for it on any iPhone or use the tool on any old iPhone 

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21 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

I'm pretty sure under United States law that Apple doesn't have to unlock the killer's phone.

Keep in mind, it is the courts who interpret the law, so if they say they have to - bar precedent/an appeal to a high court - that is what they law says. 

21 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Personally, I feel that if court ordered (and technically feasible), Apple should decrypt the device themselves. The FBI should not get the means to decrypt things directly themselves.

The issue is that if it is feasible for Apple to do it, then it is feasible for others to too. There's not way to create this ideal "black box" in which only Apple can do something. See this article

 http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/01/encryption-wont-work-if-it-has-a-back-door-only-the-good-guys-have-keys-to-

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/the_risks_of_ma.html

 

Quote

That's total Bullshit. Apple tried to convince its users that it can't decrypt or modify firmware, yet Apple is now saying it's dangerous to do so. Meaning: Apple knows of an way to actually make it happen. They're just pushing back.

That's not exactly what Apple said, but someone else already addressed that part of your argument. 

In reality, it really is dangerous, see the article linked above. 

Quote

Honestly, the better thing to have been done was for Apple to just have cooperated rather than saying its possible, but they don't want to do it. They could have kept it 'hush hush' but rather decide to blow it up publicly. Don't think Apple won't suffer repercussions via their investors, backers, users. It puts Apple in an interesting position, defend privacy of users, or acknowledge that their helping terrorists hide data (What the public interprets from the media).

Why should they comply? If it goes against their principles and beliefs why should they just fold like that? Personally, I prefer that they have stood up for their beliefs and principles, but most importantly, they've stood up for their customers. 

Quote

I'd rather see this type of situation be handled on an case by case basis. Rather than giving the FBI an all mighty 'master' firmware which disables security checks, Apple should just do it themselves when subpoenaed to do so. This means that such firmware never leaves their labs and the government won't have the firmware to abuse.

How would they prevent the firmware from leaving their labs? Companies have security breaches all the time, and the presence of something as valuable and critical such as this would create a huge risk. imagine how appealing this software would be to an unfriendly foreign power? Heck, imagine how appealing this would be to many of the world's spying agencies? They've already shown that they're willing to go the extra mile (Stuxnet, for example), who's to say that this would not be another case of that?

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27 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Why are people flipping out about this. The NSA has tools like dreamy smurf were they can watch you and listen to you through your mic and camera. Not to mention farm all your meta data to see if you are a terrorist. Honestly I don't know what they are trying to find as private data once pooled together with millions of the same type become the same. Also what terrorist is going to use a smart phone 

well obviously this one did. also if they had all that stuff why couldn't they stop him. it's because they don't have everything and this will basically give it to them. 

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20 hours ago, Bensemus said:

What if it is impossible like Apple keeps saying? Can you be fined for not complying with an impossible court order?

Except Apple implied with it's latest statement it is totally possible.

 

So yea...

 

" Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession. "

 

Totally something you would say if it was impossible to do....

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19 minutes ago, GSTARR said:

why the hell would you not

There are many reasons why someone might not want to aid in a police investigation. 

 

But to keep it on this topic,  Apple wants to maintain their customers trust in the security of their devices.  If they unlock this persons phone,  people may worry that someone could gain access to the tools Apple created,  or that it might be possible for someone else to create a similar tool. 

 

Apple might also want to avoid the hassle of police departments constantly contacting them to unlock a criminals phone for them.  They might also worry that this tool could leak out of those police departments or federal agencies, or that their customers may fear that might happen.

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1 minute ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Except Apple implied with it's latest statement it is totally possible.

 

So yea...

 

" Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession. "

 

Totally something you would say if it was impossible to do....

it's on an old iPhone.  it's impossible on the newer ones. also I think they meant impossible to backdoor, not release a new os without that feature. 

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On 2/17/2016 at 7:22 PM, 13CA350 said:

-Sneep-

 

If they have a warrant, it's perfectly legal action.

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21 minutes ago, FAQBytes said:

If they have a warrant, it's perfectly legal action.

If the procedure to unlock the phone is not in place, what is this warrant for?  Slave labor?

 

...just asking BTW.

 

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56 minutes ago, bobhays said:

well obviously this one did. also if they had all that stuff why couldn't they stop him. it's because they don't have everything and this will basically give it to them. 

I don't think a company should do something because the government is too stupid to figure it out. There is either some large amounts of money they are bribing Apple or they are pointing a gun at them.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 hours ago, stconquest said:

If the procedure to unlock the phone is not in place, what is this warrant for?  Slave labor?

 

Well, considering that phones are considered personal property inside the US, the government can issue a search warrant. Just like searching your home with a warrant. Considering Apple made the encryption standard, they are by law required to help the government access the data, else they be named accomplices. 

Am I a fan? Ehh? As a libertarian yeah, I like government to have as little power as possible, but this is criminal procedure. One of the few things I think the Gov't ought be responsible for. 

It's kinda like how Google has been forced to fork over emails that have been sent through its servers if it has been found that it may relate to criminal procedures and they have a warrant stating so. I'm sure the government is compensating Apple in some way. 

COMPUTER: Mobile Battlestation  |  CPU: INTEL I7-8700k |  Motherboard: Asus z370-i Strix Gaming  | GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW ACX 3.0 | Cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. b |  PSU: Corsair SF600 | HDD: Samsung 860 evo 1tb

 

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16 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

I don't think a company should do something because the government is too stupid to figure it out. There is either some large amounts of money they are bribing Apple or they are pointing a gun at them.

lol I just realized I might have misread your intention and made my comment ambiguous. I'm fully supporting apple on this one. 

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