AMD Reveals its new cooler for Zen

[patrickjp93]

What the hell are you saying. YOU DONT KNOW, you cant say how zen will perform.

 

Yes you can. We know the instruction set latencies for Steamroller and have the 5% IPC gain going to Excavator and then the 40% IPC gain from Excavator to Zen. All you have to do is throw the starting stats and max improvement range into an integer linear program that tries to optimize scores of open source benchmarks by running them through a virtual CPU on a VM or Hypervisor environment such as qEMU. Mind you running that simulation took my 4960X at home overclocked to 4.3GHz over 9 hours even properly multithreaded (nothing stressing RAM or cache was run with compute-intensive benches on other cores, hence the extra time since there wasn't a way to evenly divide such benchmarks into the rest of the set), but it completed with the best case result of being 3-5% over Haswell if AMD optimized the right instructions. Now mind you they're also moving to a FinFET design which we all know knocked some headroom off of Intel's clock speeds. IF you think it won't do the same to AMD, on a low power process no less, I've a bridge to sell you.

 

In terms of IPC it's going to at the absolute best eke out some room over Haswell. Barring that, there's still the issue of the node in question giving us clock speed ceilings probably in the low to mid 3GHz range for 8-core Zen.

[dalekphalm]

Now if they revealed real performance numbers as compared to Skylake or Haswell, that would be interesting. Coolers? I think it's fine, but most people will replace them anyway with aftermarket solutions, because face it - it's pretty loud anyway. 

For tech enthusiasts? Yes. But "most" people will in fact keep the stock cooler. Hell, even a lot of gamers will keep the stock cooler.

 

Remember, this is going to be the same cooler that pre-built machines will use, as well.

 

But for tech enthusiasts, yeah - anyone who is overclocking will be replacing the stock cooler. But if you aren't overclocking? Literally a waste of money to replace the stock cooler, unless you want to do so for other reasons, like having a silent build.

 

i was at a lan party where someone had a stock cooler on an fx8350, and well.. i couldnt hear my laptop over his tower cooler on the other side of the room...

He must have had a custom fan curve, with the fan maxed - or there was a problem with his system. Normally, the stock cooler is fine - just as good (Actually better in many cases) compared to the stock Intel cooler.

[patrickjp93]

and that is a fair point, since from 32nm to 14nm FF+ its like THREE NODES....

THREE DIE SHRINKS IN ONE GENERATION....

AMD uses 28nm for Steamroller and Excavator, not 32nm.

[manikyath]

He must have had a custom fan curve, with the fan maxed - or there was a problem with his system. Normally, the stock cooler is fine - just as good (Actually better in many cases) compared to the stock Intel cooler.

well, he *is* an idiot...

(recently he got fired from a company that i applied for a job at, i was refused because i was too skilled)

[Guest Kloaked]

noise*

 

 

I laughed so hard i nearly farted.

 

Jk but that was funny.

[Dabombinable]

Still though....considering almost any cooler made to fit AMD sockets to this date still work...for AMD fans upgrading from older CPU their current coolers might be all they need. I've got an Aunt who runs a Phenom II X4 (all that she needs and more than likely ever will need-web browsing, documents and FB games) running the same stock cooler that is still used on FX6300, and her computer is nearly silent. Makes me wonder what the FX8350 stock cooler would do (got one floating around some where-though I'd really love to see the difference a Cooler Master Eclipse would make-quieter at full RPM and a lot better with high TDP CPU than both current AMD stock coolers).

[TetraSky]

I guess it's fine, but still louder than what you would achieve with an after market cooler.

[Prysin]

AMD uses 28nm for Steamroller and Excavator, not 32nm.

i know, but he was also mentioning bulldozer.

i think we all know that the worst stigma atm is against "FX". which most certainly is 32nm

[Samfisher]

tell that to my 4790k                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

 

.... Did you completely miss the part where I say non OC'd systems?

[patrickjp93]

i know, but he was also mentioning bulldozer.

i think we all know that the worst stigma atm is against "FX". which most certainly is 32nm

 

The 8370 is 28nm SHP.

[Dabombinable]

The 8370 is 28nm SHP.

None of the FX line is 28nm. APU yes there are some. But not with the FX line.

[patrickjp93]

None of the FX line is 28nm. APU yes there are some. But not with the FX line.

 

I'm pretty sure Anandtech analyzed it and concluded it had come from 28nm SHP... I'll look.

[Trixanity]

I wonder if AMD will also come up with a new stock cooler design for Polaris. Although I doubt it since nothing has been revealed and Polaris is closer to release than Zen. Maybe for the successor to Polaris?

Considering that the fans were running at full speed, I think we can expect decent performance in both thermals and acoustics for regular, non-OC use. Perhaps even for mild overclocking as well but I think it would be foolish to assume that AMD is pursuing such a design to enable extreme overclocking out of the box. I also doubt it's because Zen runs too hot.

I think it's feasible for a AMD to make a good performing cooler design that they can mass produce for the next five or ten years at relatively low costs.

[DildorTheDecent]

I'm pretty sure Anandtech analyzed it and concluded it had come from 28nm SHP... I'll look.

 

First line: The 2nd generation FX series processors have been built upon what you guys know as the Vishera architecture, all managed on the very same 32nm fabrication node.

 

Further down: The eight-core PileDriver based FX processor is manufactured by GlobalFoundries on its 32nm SOI (Silicon-On-Insulator) process.

Guru3D on the FX 8370 and FX 8370E.

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_fx_8370_and_8370e_processor_review,2.html

 

Intel released a monster of a heatsink for Skylake, TS15A. Much larger than the Core i7 EE cooler which is the TS13A. 

[Prysin]

The 8370 is 28nm SHP.

nope

http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/processors/desktop/fx#

go to "model number comparison" tab

[dalekphalm]

I'm pretty sure Anandtech analyzed it and concluded it had come from 28nm SHP... I'll look.

Source for that? In their review, they don't have a single mention of 28nm in the entire article:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8427/amd-fx-8370e-cpu-review-vishera-95w

[AresKrieger]

.... Did you completely miss the part where I say non OC'd systems?

Even if it was oced as long as it is at no more than 4.4 Ghz (on the 4790k) you could get away with it, I did on my 4790k, and for a non oc'd system as you said it would be pointless to get a aftermarket cooler on the intel side as they aren't even that loud.

 

 

I'm surprised by just how loud the old cooler could get, well at least amd is actually fixing worthwhile things, so +1 to them, now we just need to see the CPU performance.

[flipped_bit]

No, I mean revived - as in brought back to life. Looks like all they did was change the fan and add a plastic cover. Though, I guess you could call that revised.

 

 

Why would you say it's "pretty unlikely"? You haven't seen the Zen architecture - they could very well match/exceed Haswell. We won't know until it's released. But I certainly wouldn't make the assumption that it's "pretty unlikely". I'd say it's "quite possible" based on what we know thus far. 

 

I know many of us have the Bulldozer/Excavator etc. performance and characteristics ingrained in our minds, but Zen will be a completely new architecture on a much smaller manufacturing node. To assume lesser performance because of past architectures on larger nodes isn't really logical.

 

I say it's pretty unlikely based on AMD's history of over-promising and under-delivering.  Also they have a fraction of the R&D budget as Intel.  I do agree that due to Bulldozer's many problems, there is ample scope for improvement with Zen, and indeed a 40% increase over Excavator - as they've claimed - would put it around the Haswell level. 

 

Everyone should be cheering for them to succeed because Intel's current margins are massive.  I'd like to stick with the red team to replace my aging Phenom II, but I'm trying to manage expectations.

[dalekphalm]

I wonder if AMD will also come up with a new stock cooler design for Polaris. Although I doubt it since nothing has been revealed and Polaris is closer to release than Zen. Maybe for the successor to Polaris?

Considering that the fans were running at full speed, I think we can expect decent performance in both thermals and acoustics for regular, non-OC use. Perhaps even for mild overclocking as well but I think it would be foolish to assume that AMD is pursuing such a design to enable extreme overclocking out of the box. I also doubt it's because Zen runs too hot.

I think it's feasible for a AMD to make a good performing cooler design that they can mass produce for the next five or ten years at relatively low costs.

Why do you doubt a new cooler? Not that they necessarily need a new one - but they don't usually make a separate announcement for GPU Stock Coolers - if there is a new cooler, it's usually included in the announcement for a new GPU itself - often with barely more than a footnote, unless it's something super exciting like Fury X Watercooling.

[Prysin]

.... Did you completely miss the part where I say non OC'd systems?

mine is at stock speeds. because i havent bothered to OC it

[patrickjp93]

Guru3D on the FX 8370 and FX 8370E.

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_fx_8370_and_8370e_processor_review,2.html

 

Intel released a monster of a heatsink for Skylake, TS15A. Much larger than the Core i7 EE cooler which is the TS13A. 

 

 

nope

http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/processors/desktop/fx#

go to "model number comparison" tab

 

 

Source for that? In their review, they don't have a single mention of 28nm in the entire article:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8427/amd-fx-8370e-cpu-review-vishera-95w

 

Mark this in your record books gentlemen, I was wrong, and it's the first time this year.

[dalekphalm]

I say it's pretty unlikely based on AMD's history of over-promising and under-delivering.  Also they have a fraction of the R&D budget as Intel.  I do agree that due to Bulldozer's many problems, there is ample scope for improvement with Zen, and indeed a 40% increase over Excavator - as they've claimed - would put it around the Haswell level. 

 

Everyone should be cheering for them to succeed because Intel's current margins are massive.  I'd like to stick with the red team to replace my aging Phenom II, but I'm trying to manage expectations.

One thing you have to remember is that AMD has ALWAYS had a fraction of Intel's R&D Budget. And multiple times in the past AMD came out with products that literally blew away the competition - no holds barred. Athlon XP series, Athlon 64 series, Athlon 64 X2 series. Those are just examples. AMD has shown in the past that on occasion, it can come out with something truly extraordinary.

 

Will Zen be such an occasion? Only time will tell. I'm not holding my breath, but I'm also not throwing them under the bus. AMD has made comebacks before. They have a chance to do so again.

[Prysin]

Mark this in your record books gentlemen, I was wrong, and it's the first time this year.

so far....

[DildorTheDecent]

Mark this in your record books gentlemen, I was wrong, and it's the first time this year.

We are only 6 days into the near year though. 

[dalekphalm]

Mark this in your record books gentlemen, I was wrong, and it's the first time this year.

Only 6 days in? Must be getting rusty