Fury X price might be affected by a Cooler Master suit vs Asetek

[Sauron]

But they can increase the price on all future orders, and then AMD can move to some other manufacturer if they disagree. In the end this won't really affect AMD very much. 

 

no, that's not how it works. amd most likely has a contract that allows them to order as many of those exact models as they want at a fixed price.

[Agent181]

[zMeul]

some speculation on why this is happening, again .. speculation on my part - and I could totally be absolutely wrong 

remember last year Asetek launched a press release?

Thursday, August 14, 2014

Asetek® today announced that it has secured a design win with an undisclosed OEM customer for a graphics liquid cooling product. The ambitious project is forecasted by the customer to result in 2 – 4 million dollars of revenue. Shipping is scheduled to begin in the first half of 2015. The design win continues Asetek’s success in the growing graphics liquid cooling market.

“We have been anticipating the rising importance of graphics card cooling for many years and building an OEM business requires patience. This design win is the largest single design win in the history of the company and a great example of our long term investments paying off,” said André Sloth Eriksen, Founder and CEO of Asetek. “We expect the demand for graphics liquid cooling to increase and for it to make up an increasing portion of Asetek’s Desktop business revenue.”

Asetek’s graphics cards liquid cooling enables graphics cards manufacturers to extract more performance at significantly lower noise levels, while maintaining industry standard graphics card form factors. Factory filled and sealed for maximum reliability and ease-of-use, Asetek’s patented liquid coolers have been thoroughly tested and certified to operate without maintenance for over 50,000 hours.

it was speculated that the contract would be for manufacturing the AIOs for the Fury X; but something happened and the contract went to Cooler Master instead

now, the guess on my part is that Asetek got really pissed by AMD's move and to "hurt" them indirectly, they launched a law suit against CM

a representative from Asetek made a post on Overclocker's forums: http://www.overclock.net/t/1574682/various-amd-r9-fury-x-to-be-possibly-impacted-by-asetek-lawsuit/30#post_24442990

the really interesting bit is this:

The cooler on the Fury X is very similar to the Seidon 120V (which is part of the successful injunction). This means it could fall under the injunction and might also be banned.

[HalGameGuru]

@Notional

They COULD very well be considered to have a monopoly on AIO if they were the only legal provider of AIO, other cooling solutions do not negate a monopoly in AIO unless some of those other solutions are ALSO AIO.

 

@Briggsy

The wccfTech article is similarly mistitled. There is no information supporting FuryX being hindered by this result. I would wager the Chip binning process is causing more hindrance than AIO. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sitting on enough stock to handle the interim until finding a new supplier or design, IF it comes to that. In the end the part that would be suspect is the pump integrated block, most of the AIO is not what is under contention. now COULD FuryX be hindered by this? Sure. But, if CM is smart, and wants to keep this contract they would do well to get a new Pump integrated block tested and ready to be implemented before AMD gets its own injunction, were it to come to that.

[jos]

They will have contract .. cooler master has to bear the loses..

[jos]

@Notional

They COULD very well be considered to have a monopoly on AIO if they were the only legal provider of AIO, other cooling solutions do not negate a monopoly in AIO unless some of those other solutions are ALSO AIO.

 

@Briggsy

The wccfTech article is similarly mistitled. There is no information supporting FuryX being hindered by this result. I would wager the Chip binning process is causing more hindrance than AIO. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sitting on enough stock to handle the interim until finding a new supplier or design, IF it comes to that. In the end the part that would be suspect is the pump integrated block, most of the AIO is not what is under contention. now COULD FuryX be hindered by this? Sure. But, if CM is smart, and wants to keep this contract they would do well to get a new Pump integrated block tested and ready to be implemented before AMD gets its own injunction, were it to come to that.

The only issue is you cant integrate block and motor together.. can do it elsewhere.. like radiator, fan etc.. still it will be AIO.

[Trik'Stari]

As long as it has the pump on the CPU, it's patented by Asetek.  Unfortunately, no one wants to put it elsewhere except for people like EK and swiftech on their H240 which fixed the 220 problem.

I still don't understand how something that vague can be patented.

[Notional]

@Notional

They COULD very well be considered to have a monopoly on AIO if they were the only legal provider of AIO, other cooling solutions do not negate a monopoly in AIO unless some of those other solutions are ALSO AIO.

 

@Briggsy

The wccfTech article is similarly mistitled. There is no information supporting FuryX being hindered by this result. I would wager the Chip binning process is causing more hindrance than AIO. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sitting on enough stock to handle the interim until finding a new supplier or design, IF it comes to that. In the end the part that would be suspect is the pump integrated block, most of the AIO is not what is under contention. now COULD FuryX be hindered by this? Sure. But, if CM is smart, and wants to keep this contract they would do well to get a new Pump integrated block tested and ready to be implemented before AMD gets its own injunction, were it to come to that.

 

As long as there is an alternative solution, you cannot really talk about monopoly. In fact in our globalized world, de facto monopoly almost doesn't exist anymore. You will usually only see real monopoly in the medicine industry.

 

Right now EKWB has their own AIO, that does not violate Asetek's patents. Swifttech has one too where the pump is on the radiator too. So now there are 3 different product types in the AIO market alone. Then you have custom water coolers, which voids the monopoly status too, as well as certain aircoolers, which can be used on the PC you need a cooler for. Asetek does not hold a monopoly status in any part of any market.

 

Asetek's solution is the best/cheapest/easiest/most practical. That makes it a superior product, not a monopoly.

[Prysin]

I don't see how you can change a AIO cooler that much. They are pretty much the same (difference here and there) but all run water over the core and memory and pump it to a radiator.

its rather easy

instead of a cold plate, use a vapor-chamber between the pump and core.

instead of having the pump on the CPU/GPU block, put it on the radiator (EK/Swiftek solution) or on the fan (Antec solution). Or put the pump ouside of the radiator/fan/block. Then again that makes it less user friendly.

There ARE plenty of slutions.

you could make 5,25" bay reservoire + pump combo like EK has (not sure if patented), then allow for "modular radiator selection"

[Prysin]

As long as there is an alternative solution, you cannot really talk about monopoly. In fact in our globalized world, de facto monopoly almost doesn't exist anymore. You will usually only see real monopoly in the medicine industry.

 

Right now EKWB has their own AIO, that does not violate Asetek's patents. Swifttech has one too where the pump is on the radiator too. So now there are 3 different product types in the AIO market alone. Then you have custom water coolers, which voids the monopoly status too, as well as certain aircoolers, which can be used on the PC you need a cooler for. Asetek does not hold a monopoly status in any part of any market.

 

Asetek's solution is the best/cheapest/easiest/most practical. That makes it a superior product, not a monopoly.

you forgot Antec stuff - pump is intergrated with the fan motor.

[Prysin]

The only issue is you cant integrate block and motor together.. can do it elsewhere.. like radiator, fan etc.. still it will be AIO.

you can, you would have to use either a riser with heatpipes, or a vaporchamber. What you cannot do is mount a pump ontop of a slab of copper, aluminium, gold, silver or other heat conducting material.

It cannot be a slab of metal.

[BuckGup]

its rather easy

instead of a cold plate, use a vapor-chamber between the pump and core.

instead of having the pump on the CPU/GPU block, put it on the radiator (EK/Swiftek solution) or on the fan (Antec solution). Or put the pump ouside of the radiator/fan/block. Then again that makes it less user friendly.

There ARE plenty of slutions.

you could make 5,25" bay reservoire + pump combo like EK has (not sure if patented), then allow for "modular radiator selection"

But that isn't changing what they are. Sure I can butter corn with my eyes but I am still buttering corn

[Prysin]

But that isn't changing what they are. Sure I can butter corn with my eyes but I am still buttering corn

true, but the way you do it is different.

patents are not allowed to block a product. They are allowed to block a specific METHOD of making that product.

Take coka cola. They cannot ban ALL cola flavored soda, but their patent covers the recipe and method of mixing used to make THEIR cola flavored soda version.

you can produce the same product, aslong as it deviates enough to clearly show your design is NOT a 100% copy... even if it is 75% similar, you can and rightfully so argue on the semantics enough to win. The decidin factor in those cases is who buys the judge or not

This is why certain older guns look very similar on the outside, but the inside is quite different. Even in the olden days, patent trolling was a thing. It just so happens that in the last 100 years our methods of production has been flexible enough to let us find other ways. now that everyone can use CAD and 3D printers, we are again reaching an era where innovation is becoming harder. Until we unlock a way of manufacturing that allow us to go into an even more refined way of producing stuff (molecular modeling)

[HalGameGuru]

As long as there is an alternative solution, you cannot really talk about monopoly. In fact in our globalized world, de facto monopoly almost doesn't exist anymore. You will usually only see real monopoly in the medicine industry.

 

Right now EKWB has their own AIO, that does not violate Asetek's patents. Swifttech has one too where the pump is on the radiator too. So now there are 3 different product types in the AIO market alone. Then you have custom water coolers, which voids the monopoly status too, as well as certain aircoolers, which can be used on the PC you need a cooler for. Asetek does not hold a monopoly status in any part of any market.

 

Asetek's solution is the best/cheapest/easiest/most practical. That makes it a superior product, not a monopoly.

I never said it was a monopoly, but non-AIO products would not negate monopoly in AIO. Competing AIO products negate monopoly in AIO. Just because you can take a train or a coach to Albany doesn't mean Vanderbilt didn't have a monopoly on ferry traffic there. You still have a monopoly on your new patented pain killed even though people can still use Aspirin for their headaches.

 

As for asetek specifically, I'm still not sure how the status of pump being mounted to plate is patentable. But, then people have patented pinching fingers and the "rectangle" so I shouldn't be surprised.

[HalGameGuru]

The only issue is you cant integrate block and motor together.. can do it elsewhere.. like radiator, fan etc.. still it will be AIO.

I think it just cannot be one piece, you could have a pump directly attached to the block still, just not integrated into the plate as a single piece.

[jos]

I think it just cannot be one piece, you could have a pump directly attached to the block still, just not integrated into the plate as a single piece.

You cannot make pump and the block together..specifically can not place  pump on top of the block//

[HalGameGuru]

You cannot make pump and the block together..specifically can not place  pump on top of the block//

No from what it was explained as it sounds more like the integration of pump and plate. Not just having a pump attached to the block. Just make a modular system or put the pump inline off the plate itself. I wonder if those new artificial heart designs could inject some new thinking into these things.

[Icecube26]

AMD is going to be  fine... fury X is not the only card they sell... btw... all they have to do is give the Fury X chips to OEM vendors ... Like Asus, Msi or Gigabyte a let them make air cooled versions of the Fury X with custom pcb etc... that what the should have done in the first place....tbh

[Icecube26]

Should start posting anti-nvidia threads. Those would probably get locked straight away, it's made worse by the fact that the OP has a serious penchant for posting anti-AMD bullcrap. Even more so that this isn't likely to affect prices of the Fury X at all.

my thread about AMD preparing Fury X2 got locked by a mod for not following posting guidelines. The fanboyism is strong with linus tech tips... inb4 all AMD thread will get insta locked soon for no reason.. because its  AMD...

[Notional]

my thread about AMD preparing Fury X2 got locked by a mod for not following posting guidelines. The fanboyism is strong with linus tech tips... inb4 all AMD thread will get insta locked soon for no reason.. because its  AMD...

 

It's because it's mandatory to put all copy pasted text in a quote box AND to write your personal opinion too. A bit too aggressive when it's a 5 page thread.

[zMeul]

a shot in the dark .. what if CM models in question get banned in the US and the Fury X² AIO was already contracted to CM, assuming they use the same or similar construct as Fury X did - if all the wrong checkboxes get marked, it could spell disaster for Fury X²'s launch

[Dabombinable]

you can, you would have to use either a riser with heatpipes, or a vaporchamber. What you cannot do is mount a pump ontop of a slab of copper, aluminium, gold, silver or other heat conducting material.

It cannot be a slab of metal.

And that just points out how retarded some patents are.