Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[Corrupt_Liberty]

7 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

From what I can find, SAO stands for Single Action Only (no Double Action trigger).

 

*EDIT*
Curses, ninja'd by @Real_PhillBert

 

Yup, Single action only for those of us with discerning taste in triggers.

 

5 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

 

 

[Jito463]

2 minutes ago, Corrupt_Liberty said:

Yup, Single action only for those of us with discerning taste in triggers.

Just from a curiosity standpoint, why do you prefer single action?  I get that it has a lighter trigger pull (4-5 lbs versus 9-10 lbs), but it also means you need to manually cock the hammer before firing.  I would think having the option of double action would be preferable.

[Real_PhillBert]

3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Just from a curiosity standpoint, why do you prefer single action?  I get that it has a lighter trigger pull (4-5 lbs versus 9-10 lbs), but it also means you need to manually cock the hammer before firing.  I would think having the option of double action would be preferable.

There are merits to both. 

 

Personally I am not a fan of DA/SA guns (Double Action/Single Action) as there are two distinct trigger pulls. However, as you pointed out you do lose the double strike ability with striker or SAO guns. 

 

Different strokes for different folks.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jito463 said:

Just from a curiosity standpoint, why do you prefer single action?  I get that it has a lighter trigger pull (4-5 lbs versus 9-10 lbs), but it also means you need to manually cock the hammer before firing.  I would think having the option of double action would be preferable.

My guess would be carrying. If the hammer isn't cocked, you don't have to worry about shooting your di-... shooting yourself in the foot.

Yeah, let's go with that. 

If my airsoft experience means ANYTHING: muscle memory, and training will permit you to whip out the gun, cock it, and fire swiftly in an appropriate situation. 

Like this:

 

[Snadzies]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

I severely doubt you have a Sword Art Online P226.

 

There was that whole story arc in SOA that took place in that shooter MMO...

I doubt you'd find SOA branded firearms due to Japan's firearms restrictions but I bet you can find SOA branded airsoft rifles and such without much trouble.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Snadzies said:

 

There was that whole story arc in SOA that took place in that shooter MMO...

I doubt you'd find SOA branded firearms due to Japan's firearms restrictions but I bet you can find SOA branded airsoft rifles and such without much trouble.

I was picturing some custom art as like a contract thing so it wouldn't be easy to copyright against. 

Like if you wrote LTT on the side of your PC, I doubt LTT would come after you and sue you. 

 

But still I see what your saying. Official merchandise with that stuff would be easier to find in airsoft. 

[Corrupt_Liberty]

1 hour ago, Jito463 said:

Just from a curiosity standpoint, why do you prefer single action?  I get that it has a lighter trigger pull (4-5 lbs versus 9-10 lbs), but it also means you need to manually cock the hammer before firing.  I would think having the option of double action would be preferable.

You only have to cock the hammer for each round with a SAO revolver.  With semi-auto SAO pistols you only have to cock the hammer for the first shot.  The hammer is cocked by the slide moving to the rear after each subsequent shot.  When I carry a SAO firearm I do so in what is known as Condition 1, or cocked and locked.  This means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is back and the safety is on.  As you're drawing the firearm you only have to swipe the safety off and it's ready to fire.  I prefer this to the Glock "Safe Action" system because I think cocked and locked is actually safer.  The trigger pull being short and clean with little to no take up, a crisp break and a very short reset are just added benefits.  

[Jito463]

Just now, Corrupt_Liberty said:

You only have to cock the hammer for each round with a SAO revolver.  With semi-auto SAO pistols you only have to cock the hammer for the first shot.  The hammer is cocked by the slide moving to the rear after each subsequent shot.  When I carry a SAO firearm I do so in what is known as Condition 1, or cocked and locked.  This means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is back and the safety is on.  As you're drawing the firearm you only have to swipe the safety off and it's ready to fire.  I prefer this to the Glock "Safe Action" system because I think cocked and locked is actually safer.  The trigger pull being short and clean with little to no take up, a crisp break and a very short reset are just added benefits.  

Interesting.  You're making me consider getting a hammer style pistol for my next purchase.  Right now, I carry with one in the chamber, but no safety (my gun doesn't have one).  It does give me pause every time I slide it away, since I do consider potential hardware failures as something to be concerned about.  I'm not so concerned about accidentally pulling the trigger, as it does have a double-trigger function and I keep it in a sheath that shields the trigger.  However, the striker failing and firing on its own is something I worry about.

[Corrupt_Liberty]

1 minute ago, Jito463 said:

Interesting.  You're making me consider getting a hammer style pistol for my next purchase.  Right now, I carry with one in the chamber, but no safety (my gun doesn't have one).  It does give me pause every time I slide it away, since I do consider potential hardware failures as something to be concerned about.  I'm not so concerned about accidentally pulling the trigger, as it does have a double-trigger function and I keep it in a sheath that shields the trigger.  However, the striker failing and firing on its own is something I worry about.

I don't know of a single case where the striker failed and caused an AD.  That would be the least of my worries.  I'd be more worried about getting a jacket caught up while re-holstering.  I even read an article where a guy had a worn leather holster that folded into the trigger guard.  He shot himself in the leg as he was getting into his car.  "Safe Action" pistols do not prevent the firearm from discharging when the trigger is pulled, a manual safety does.  It does take a bit more practice to manage a safety.  I practice drawing and holstering with a cleared firearm for about 15 minutes a day for a few days a week.  It doesn't take long before it is second nature, muscle memory sets in and it doesn't require any thought. 

 

I've actually gotten to the point where when using a DA pistol (i do have one or two) it actually gives me pause when there isn't a safety on the side of the frame.  Of course that presents it's own problem.  If, god forbid, I ever needed to defend myself with a DA firearm, that slight pause could be detrimental to my health.  My suggestion would be to pick a firearm you like and stick to the same "manual of arms" or operations.  If you practice with SA, carry single action.  If you practice DA, carry double action. 

[Jito463]

2 minutes ago, Corrupt_Liberty said:

I don't know of a single case where the striker failed and caused an AD.

Well that's reassuring.  It's been my primary concern since I started carrying with this gun.  Especially after I had to send the gun back to Ruger because it stopped firing (not the same issue, but related).

 

3 minutes ago, Corrupt_Liberty said:

I'd be more worried about getting a jacket caught up while re-holstering.  I even read an article where a guy had a worn leather holster that folded into the trigger guard.  He shot himself in the leg as he was getting into his car.

That's not really a concern for me, as I pocket carry.  I insert the gun into the sheath before it ever goes in my pocket.  If it ever folded to the point where it could catch the trigger, I'd know before it became an issue.

[Corrupt_Liberty]

2 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

That's not really a concern for me, as I pocket carry.  I insert the gun into the sheath before it ever goes in my pocket.  If it ever folded to the point where it could catch the trigger, I'd know before it became an issue.

That's good to know.  I doubt any one firearm is particularly safer than another.  In the end it all comes down to us to make sure we follow every safety rule every time.  Due diligence is what will keep you safe.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jito463 said:

That's not really a concern for me, as I pocket carry.  I insert the gun into the sheath before it ever goes in my pocket.  If it ever folded to the point where it could catch the trigger, I'd know before it became an issue.

I hope you never have the sheath fold into the trigger.

I also hope that if you ever NEED it, the sheath doesn't trip you up. 

[Jito463]

Just now, fpo said:

I hope you never have the sheath fold into the trigger.

I also hope that if you ever NEED it, the sheath doesn't trip you up. 

The former shouldn't be an issue, for the reasons I described above.  The latter is actually a minor issue right now, as the sheath I'm using was for a smaller gun (this gun fits a bit too snugly into it).  I need to order a new one that's the correct size for my LC9s Pro.

[Zando_]

Any suggestions on a good .22 LR rifle under $200? I was thinking of the Savage Arms Stevens Model 300 (long title!), since A friend has one and I really like it. Are there any better ones for the price? It's around $165. 

[Snadzies]

Took the 226 to the range Wednesday.

The trigger while shooting SA is going to take some getting used to as I find it has a rather long take up before the break and a very long reset as it doesn't reset till the trigger is fully released.

The trigger is pretty light and the break is good and the gun has the lightest recoil of any of my 9mms.

The action is very smooth and I am very impressed how smoothly it feeds rounds.

Even manually running the action very slowly there is no resistance anywhere as the round is stripped from the mag and slips into the chamber.

[Snadzies]

17 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Any suggestions on a good .22 LR rifle under $200? I was thinking of the Savage Arms Stevens Model 300 (long title!), since A friend has one and I really like it. Are there any better ones for the price? It's around $165. 

 

Look around for a Ruger 10/22. New they are around $200 -$230.

It is a little more than the Savage Arms but there are a metric ass load of parts and accessories for them available and mountains of videos showing how you can tune and tweak them.

 

They can be picky with ammo (most semi auto .22s are) but since it is .22 even higher end stuff is pretty cheap.

[Zando_]

1 minute ago, Snadzies said:

 

Look around for a Ruger 10/22. New they are around $200 -$230.

It is a little more than the Savage Arms but there are a metric ass load of parts and accessories for them available and mountains of videos showing how you can tune and tweak them.

 

They can be picky with ammo (most semi auto .22s are) but since it is .22 even higher end stuff is pretty cheap.

Hmmm... I've heard they're really good. Though I like bolt-actions, I think they're a bit more reliable and they feel kind of like a mini sniper rifle. How good are semi-autos, and how hard are they to take care of for a noob? 

 

Savage also has a really cheap one, the 64 F. The stock mag sucks, but it's great with a better one. And the trigger is a little mushy. But from what I read it's really accurate. 

[Real_PhillBert]

7 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Hmmm... I've heard they're really good. Though I like bolt-actions, I think they're a bit more reliable and they feel kind of like a mini sniper rifle. How good are semi-autos, and how hard are they to take care of for a noob? 

 

Savage also has a really cheap one, the 64 F. The stock mag sucks, but it's great with a better one. And the trigger is a little mushy. But from what I read it's really accurate. 

The 10/22 is a great option if you want semi-auto. I've had one for 15 years and when it was new it was kinda picky on ammo, but now it'll eat anything you throw at it.

 

Another awesome option is the Savage MKII series, the MKII F and MKII FV can be found right about the $200 mark. I've owned a MKII TR for five or six years now as a long range rimfire plinker and it's stupidly accurate. I've done things with that rifle that people have told me are impossible with the .22lr cartridge. 

[Zando_]

Just now, Real_PhillBert said:

The 10/22 is a great option if you want semi-auto. I've had one for 15 years and when it was new it was kinda picky on ammo, but now it'll eat anything you throw at it.

My dad (23 years in the Marines, so he knows plenty about guns) says you need to put about 500 rounds through a rifle to break it in, that's probs why people think it's picky. 

 

1 minute ago, Real_PhillBert said:

Another awesome option is the Savage MKII series, the MKII F and MKII FV can be found right about the $200 mark. I've owned a MKII TR for five or six years now as a long range rimfire plinker and it's stupidly accurate. I've done things with that rifle that people have told me are impossible with the .22lr cartridge. 

The MkII's look really nice as well. I think Savage is one of the best bolt-action rifle makers for .22LR, at least from what I've read. 

[Snadzies]

11 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Hmmm... I've heard they're really good. Though I like bolt-actions, I think they're a bit more reliable and they feel kind of like a mini sniper rifle. How good are semi-autos, and how hard are they to take care of for a noob? 

 

Savage also has a really cheap one, the 64 F. The stock mag sucks, but it's great with a better one. And the trigger is a little mushy. But from what I read it's really accurate. 

 

I'm afraid I can't comment on bolt action .22s as I've never owned or fired one.

If you like the idea of a bolt action .22 then totally go for it!

 

As for how easy/hard a 10/22 is to work on:

 

I wouldn't disassemble it any further than the 4 minute mark as you only need to disassemble the trigger pack if the gun is really gunked up.

Even then just soaking the whole trigger pack in a tub of CLP or something should do the trick.

[Real_PhillBert]

8 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

My dad (23 years in the Marines, so he knows plenty about guns) says you need to put about 500 rounds through a rifle to break it in, that's probs why people think it's picky. 

This can be accurate with centerfire firearms, but one of the main issues with .22LR is that there's such a huge variation in loadings that it can be difficult or impossible to get a spring combination that works well with all loads. 22s can be fickle at any time. I find that CCI Mini-mags are some of the best and most consistent .22lr ammo, and is all I buy in .22lr these days.

[Zando_]

3 minutes ago, Snadzies said:

 

I'm afraid I can't comment on bolt action .22s as I've never owned or fired one.

If you like the idea of a bolt action .22 then totally go for it!

 

As for how easy/hard a 10/22 is to work on:

 

I wouldn't disassemble it any further than the 4 minute mark as you only need to disassemble the trigger pack if the gun is really gunked up.

Even then just soaking the whole trigger pack in a tub of CLP or something should do the trick.

Wow. That is super simple. I'd love a semi-auto, but bolt actions have such a satisfying feel... I love mechanical metally stuff. 

[Zando_]

1 minute ago, Real_PhillBert said:

This can be accurate with centerfire firearms, but one of the main issues with .22LR is that there's such a huge variation in loadings that it can be difficult or impossible to get a spring combination that works well with all loads. 22s can be fickle at any time. I find that CCI Mini-mags are some of the best and most consistent .22lr ammo, and is all I buy in .22lr these days.

Ah. So looks like it's either the 10/22 or Savage MKII F. 

[Real_PhillBert]

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

Ah. So looks like it's either the 10/22 or Savage MKII F. 

Both are great options with a pile of aftermarket support. The 10/22 has even more aftermarket support, but the Savage will almost certainly be a bit more accurate as they spend a bunch of time and money on their barrels.

 

You really cant go wrong with either one TBH. 

[Zando_]

Just now, Real_PhillBert said:

Both are great options with a pile of aftermarket support. The 10/22 has even more aftermarket support, but the Savage will almost certainly be a bit more accurate as they spend a bunch of time and money on their barrels.

 

You really cant go wrong with either one TBH. 

Yeah. I don't need a ton of aftermarket stuff, just iron sights, a nice polymer or wood stock, and an easily removable scope. So basically everything I need except the scope comes on the gun. Now it's just semi vs. bolt action.