PSU ranking and tiers

[quan289]

-"If you actually paid attention to the OP you'd realize that I did take into serious consideration what you'd said, and have adjusted many thing, including most of your suggestions."

Deja vu. I recall you telling me to pay attention about something, when I did noticed. I noticed because I came back to see if you had actually proof-read and fixed some stuff. Then I saw a discussion about a tier list and a simple whitelist, so I gave my general input regarding it and made an comment how my concerns is reflected on this thread as well.
 
Since the reason why I dislike it is due to my concerns, I took offense when you told me to "ignore it and move on". It sounded like you weren't taking it into serious consideration that there still have issues with the list and had brushed it aside. Rather than telling me to ignored it, you could have stated that you made some changes and await for my feedback. After all, you felt that I didn't look at the OP after I made my first post here.

 

Btw, there are still duplicates in two different tiers.

 

-"People still make lots of threads asking for PSUs and if you want to help them out with your infinite PSU knowledge then do go right ahead as you've been doing for the past while."

You should know me well enough, when I have comments on something I disagree with, I tend to type a "wall-of-text" (due to my own inability to know how to condense my thoughts process after translating it from another language in my mind) and yet I only typed an one line comment regarding it. There's a reason for that, and that is I don't have the time anymore to be doing as I like as in the past; hence the reason of me not being on for 5-ish months. Priorities.

 

In fact, the only reason why I started to post here again was because I stumbled upon this list accidentally.

-"I have school, work, and other things to worry about. I can't just sit on this forum all day, especially this thread, working on making it perfect. Also, 99% of my posts are not in the PSU section, I actually help people in other sections as well."

When did I ever told you to sit all day on this forum? Just like me, you have your own life and priorities that you have and should deal with. I also never told you to do this in a single sitting. Spread the workload across a span of a month or two, if you have to.  An informative list should at the very least be relatively accurate by the time it goes live for people to see. In other words, if you don't have time to maintain it now, wiped everything out from your opening thread, put it on hold, and then work on it behind the scene by doing some research and get some advice if you need it. Once you have done that, come back with a finalized list.  I'm not expecting perfection. Chances are, it will end up needing some correction here and there; however, it should at least presentable.

 

-"You don't have to make yourself look like a big critic for everyone to know you have extensive PSU knowledge. We know you are right, buddy."

Oh, okay...that's an interesting attitude you got there. Didn't you often criticized people who recommend the CX, RM, G1, etc. every chance you get a while back? To the point that it seem like you had became Shilka 2.0 of LTT in which you made multiple of threads to tell how bad their recommendations are. You even made what you called a meme to mock them.
 
If I see something that feel needs to be fix, improved on, etc, I will bluntly tell you as I always been doing, just like how you have no problem being a "big critic" to others. So don't criticized me for doing something that you are also guilty of doing, "buddy". The only thing different now is that you are on the receiving end.

 
-"If you don't like that, then either ignore it or make your own thread in which you have full control over, rather then complain about other people's. There's a reason this thread is not stickied unlike the wattage one."

Telling me once again to ignore something that had been "stickied" in people's signature and have been spouting around the forums like a plague. Not to mentioned, telling me to ignore it is the same as telling me to allow other people to view it, even though you know there's a reason why it is not stickied. As I already told you "Many of these people are putting their trust in you for providing an accurate, unbiased information on various of PSUs. I'm quite sure they would feel cheated had they spent money on something if that wasn't the case".

 

-"If you want to make some immediate changes, do give a list of changes you want to make, either here or over PM, and they will be done ASAP. But if you want me to do the work myself and continue improving on it independently, it will take time."

Fine. Since I decided not to find some time and help you as a co-creator, I will at least provide some feedback by typing and finding links without trying to condense it until I have to go to my night shift. After that, you are on your own.
 
While I would like to give you a list of changes I want you to make, that won't help this thread, as I would provide a list of different ranking criteria / methodology. This is something you have to work out yourself, as you have your own methods of maintaining this list. Otherwise, you are essentially changing pretty much everything to some degree (not just what should be in what tier, but the general overall layout). For example, your list is based off of a 4 tiers of what's acceptable and another one to avoid, correct? Well, if you based it off someone like Jonny Gerow (Jonnyguru - and it is no longer being maintain as he too felt it was to "daunting to maintain"), it would have 10 tiers because he felt that the complexity of SMPS to too great to be cover in 3-5 tiers like many list does.
 
This bring up a flaw. Your list is too condense. As you should already know, PSU manufacturers do not make multiple of PSU lines of similar quality. It is more spread out to fit the segment that they are targeted at. It's not very lucrative for a company if they equalized their engineering capability with their low-end budget units with their premium, high-end units. For example, let's talk about the "Tier 2" Enermax Revolution x't. I had recall you was going on about how it is similar to the RM series. However, the x't is part of the DSA series - specifically DSA-IV. Sound familiar? DSA-III based Corsair CX? While it is likely above the CX series due to it being a DC-DC, Gold rated PSU, this shows that CWT didn't intend the platform to be in the mainstream segment like the RM but lowered. Yes, even though the x't does offer comparable voltage regulation to the RM series, it had shown to exhibit higher residual ripples than the RM series to the point that it reach nearly 70mV on the 12v and nearly touching the 50mV limit on the minor rails on the 630w model.
 
Not only that, it seem like you are trying to compare platforms of lower wattage to platform of higher wattage. Certain designs may have some sort of limitation. Platforms that do very well at the lower output levels can significantly suffer at higher output levels. I'm quite sure I had talked to you about this in the past. For example, why is the Seasonic S12II / M12II Bronze 380w-620w and its rebrand in tier 2? It's not because of capacitor choice, as the Straight Power E9 (for some reason) and X't is in the same tier, and they used Teapo or CapXon. You often compare voltage regulation of units, but the Corsair CS, Cooler Master GM, Fractal Design Integra M, NZXT Hale90v2, FSP Aurum Pro, EVGA 1000G1 that is one Tier lower, as well as the higher wattage 650w-850w of this series will all offer vastly superior v.reg thanks to independent regulation via dual mag-amp or DC-DC. Just because Oklahoma Wolf @ Jonnyguru stated that the S12II 520w went a little outside of 1% v.reg doesn't mean it offer comparable to the Seasonic G 550w v2 with a ~1% v.reg (not necessary saying you are - just making a point).

Far from it actually, as that is only 5 test with a set incremental increase in loads. The result will greatly differ in a more random, dynamic testing scenario (like what you see in the real world). Crossload test @ TPU is great at simulating this, as it's show line regulation readings from thousand of load simulations (although this test doesn't simulate how well it adjust to sudden changes). Antec HCG-620M (Tier 2) vs Corsair CX600M (Tier 4) vs Antec VP550P (Tier 4) vs Cooler Master G550M (Tier 3). The HCG and CX have similar readings, while the VP and GM has more consistent, stable readings.
 
So why is it in tier 2 above units like the Aurum Pro, EVGA 1000G1, and NZXT Hale90v2 (FSP AAG platform - a server based platform)? Why are those three units in Tier 3 for that matter?
 
Another point I like to make is that you need to defined each tier properly and follow it. For example, tier 1 should be reserved for units that offer something like top electrical performance, uncompromising build quality, and a large over-engineering overhead, correct? After all, top tier should be the representation of units that are among the "best". Units like the Antec Signature 650w that can be overloaded to ~870wDC, Seasonic X 750w that can be overloaded to ~940wDC, or Antec HCP-1200 that can be overload to ~1700wDC can be said to be among them.
 
Tier 1 units shouldn't have something that has issues with the OPP being set too high and +12v schottky had burned out when drawing ~130wDC more than what it is rated for, in which Behemot of HardwareInsight had tested the S12G, G, and TP-*50C as stated here. While you can say  "who in the world would would overload their PSU in such a way in RL", that's not the point. The point is that this list is grouping it with units that can be overloading 200wDC+ while still having excellent performance, shut down safely, and still have some engineering overhead on top of that. Even if Seasonic address this issue, it shows that the attention to detail that went into deciding the overall quality of these units is not the same as the their X / P series.
 
Now, if you are willing to change some stuff based on what I have said, the tier list would probably be something like this: Seasonic G (2) > SS-*50AT / SS-*50AM (3) > S12II / M12II-B 380-620w (4), right? However, you probably feel conflicted because now the lower wattage S/M12II is now group with, so chances are you would feel inclined to make a tier 5.
 
This bring up another flaw. If I'm able to change your mind, my input may have created a domino affect in which you may need to reevaluate every other PSU to tier two and down (which you should). It's a good idea to have a firm foundation to build on at the start; otherwise, you may end up having to break everything down and have to start over.

 

Well, I have to go.

[GER_T4IGA]

-snip-

Conclusion:

As (almost)always: You get what you pay for

[Mikjul]

No Corsair TX?

Antec VP is tier 1? http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/antec-vp450-power-supply-review/

[don_svetlio]

No Corsair TX?

Antec VP is tier 1? http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/antec-vp450-power-supply-review/

TX are old and no longer in production.

[Mikjul]

TX are old and no longer in production.

Fair enough mate.

[Mikjul]

Good write up OP, nice to see a dedicated thread to PSU's.

[themaniac]

No Corsair TX?

Antec VP is tier 1? http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/antec-vp450-power-supply-review/

if thats true than you can get a good psu for only 15 USD, @Aniallation and @STRMfrmXMN is this review notable?

[AliveGhost13]

Conclusion:

As (almost)always: You get what you pay for

Not really

[themaniac]

Not really

yep look at the corsair rm you pay more for what its worth

[STRMfrmXMN]

if thats true than you can get a good psu for only 15 USD, @Aniallation and @STRMfrmXMN is this review notable?

They are pretty good for what you pay for them. 15 USD though? It's probably one of the FSP units

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page673.htm

[Aniallation]

No Corsair TX?

Antec VP is tier 1? http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/antec-vp450-power-supply-review/

They are tier 3-4 depending on what the suffix is. Just plain VP is tier 4, a rather meh FSP unit, but it gets the job done for $15. A friend of mine has a VP450 and has had no issues running his G3258 and 650Ti Boost off of it.

[Aniallation]

Good write up OP, nice to see a dedicated thread to PSU's.

Thanks, I have also another thread that is stickied for wattage selection: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/199255-how-many-watts-do-i-need-check-here/

 

That thread and this one were designed to generally be a good basic reference as to what PSU to get, there's also STRMfrmXMN's PSU whitelist for a broader selection of what's good: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/404921-strmfrmxmns-psu-whitelist/

 

Of course they all need refining which will happen over time as things change and we have the time to do so.

[STRMfrmXMN]

Thanks, I have also another thread that is stickied for wattage selection: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/199255-how-many-watts-do-i-need-check-here/

 

That thread and this one were designed to generally be a good basic reference as to what PSU to get, there's also STRMfrmXMN's PSU whitelist for a broader selection of what's good: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/404921-strmfrmxmns-psu-whitelist/

 

Of course they all need refining which will happen over time as things change and we have the time to do so.

 

Good write up OP, nice to see a dedicated thread to PSU's.

Can never have too many! Don't forget to learn about 80 Plus efficiency and also use the PSU tier list Aniallation made to help (hopefully) kill off the stupid PCMR Reddit one...

[quan289]

Speaking of the VP series, Antec really need to reconsidered their naming scheme and/or what OEM/platform they used, as it can be rather confusing. Similar to Thermaltake in that regard.

For example.

VP450, VP450P, VP500P = FSP APN

VP350P = Group regulated Delta.

VP550P/650P = Indy regulated Delta

VP*00PC + VPA500P = CWT GPA

VP*00P + VP500Pv2 = FSP Hyper

 

Even the VP450F is different from the VPF450...

At least in the NA, the VPF*50 is the current Earthwatt Green.

[Aniallation]

Can never have too many! Don't forget to learn about 80 Plus efficiency and also use the PSU tier list Aniallation made to help (hopefully) kill off the stupid PCMR Reddit one...

This is the tier list lol

[Aniallation]

Speaking of the VP series, Antec really need to reconsidered their naming scheme and/or what OEM/platform they used, as it can be rather confusing. Similar to Thermaltake in that regard.

 

-snip-

Thanks, put that on the list of what's going to be changed on OP as it will be undergoing a decent overhaul hopefully in the next few days.

 

Do you have any insight on the Thermaltake TR2 series? I often get asked a lot about those. From what I've heard the TR2-x00P by FSP are okay while most others are awful, but some citing would be nice.

[STRMfrmXMN]

This is the tier list lol

THIS TIER LIST WILL END ALL TIER LISTS

[Aniallation]

THIS TIER LIST WILL END ALL TIER LISTS

[don_svetlio]

THIS TIER LIST WILL END ALL TIER LISTS

All hail @Aniallation! Our one true savior, the opener of the way! (reference Half Life 2 mostly )

[Aniallation]

All hail @Aniallation! Our one true savior, the opener of the way! (reference Half Life 2 mostly )

[don_svetlio]

Feel free to join the Witch Hunt against the CX units - people sharing barbecue stories about them here

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/445460-stable-and-safe-psu-for-gtx-970/

[themaniac]

agreed ALL HAIL ANIALLATION also look at my sig as i named this the best psu tier list known to man

[don_svetlio]

agreed ALL HAIL ANIALLATION also look at my sig as i named this the best psu tier list known to man

Official Aniallation fan poster anyone?

/jk

[themaniac]

Official Aniallation fan poster anyone?

/jk

just add "ANIALLATION" to it than its perfect

[themaniac]

They are pretty good for what you pay for them. 15 USD though? It's probably one of the FSP units

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page673.htm

yeah 15 USD, its the regular so it is the fsp unit