AMD officially cancels 20nm chips and takes a $33 million charge

[Thorium19]

Strange, but I can see the sense in it. Moving to a smaller node faster is a good idea instead of having a stopgap at 20nm which would likely end up being a few years. If AMD had done stuff at 20nm, then it still wouldn't be good enough, so straight to 14nm is a more sensible choice.

[Techhog]

This is a problem. The 370 and the 380 are newish but the 390 and 390X are already approaching two years old now. They are going to be four or five years old by the time they are replaced this is is true. It's even worse if this is referring to Zen, which I really hope it isn't.

 

We'll see. I really want AMD to look like a viable option when I come to move over from X79.

 

 

 

The problem with those cards is that they don't even beat AMD last gen. The 370 is beaten by a 270 and the 380 would be ok if the 280X didn't exist.

 

Did anyone ever even recommend the 265 or 285 last generation? I saw plenty of people recommending 260X instead of 750 Ti (I was among them) and lots of people pitted the 960 straight up against the 280X. The 285 didn't make an awful lot of sense, for the same reason the 960 didn't. The 380 does nothing but justify the 960's existence which is odd.

Uh, the 370 is the oldest chip in the series...

 

7850 = 265 = 370

[Atmos]

Ohhh, I like this. AMD really seems lately to be picking up some steam with pioneering some technologies. If they could within the next 16 months leap up to 16 and 14nm designs it would be staggering. Might even give intel a little push back. 

 

 

 

 currently amd gpus are a btter value all the way up to the fury x (up to as in not including)

 

I'd debate that even a fury X is a great value for 4k resolutions. Some time back now I pulled on some massive resources and the fury x still beats out the 980ti at 4k about 50% of the time, and it even beats the titan x about 22% of the time, something that in those tests, the 980ti could not do. So, for 4k I'd have to go for a fury, but at anything less than 4k? Nope, 980ti is just better.

[Briggsy]

I dont think it matters if the chips still beat out the competition.. if a 20 year old gpu beats out a brand new one the old one is still better not to mention they rebranded the 265 and 285 in the 3xx series which arent 7XXX rebrands and they still wreck nvidia face... at the price points currently amd gpus are a btter value all the way up to the fury x (up to as in not including)

 

Pretty much this ^^. Why waste hundreds of millions to make a new low end chip (other than to satisfy a small group of vocal enthusiasts that don't use low end cards)? Silicon refinements alone give their previous cards a performance boost and power reduction with each refresh, and nvidia aren't improving performance by any significant amount at those performance tiers, despite blowing hundreds of millions.

 

There is one simple answer though: Nvidia had no choice but to release Maxwell at lower tiers. Reason: DX12 features. AMD cards are already DX12 feature compliant, no need to waste money when there's literally no reason to.

[othertomperson]

Uh, the 370 is the oldest chip in the series...

 

7850 = 265 = 370

 

I thought the 7850 was the 260X, and the 265 was a new 200 series card.

 

 

Pretty much this ^^. Why waste hundreds of millions to make a new low end chip (other than to satisfy a small group of vocal enthusiasts that don't use low end cards)? Silicon refinements alone give their previous cards a performance boost and power reduction with each refresh, and nvidia aren't improving performance by any significant amount at those performance tiers, despite blowing hundreds of millions.

 

There is one simple answer though: Nvidia had no choice but to release Maxwell at lower tiers. Reason: DX12 features. AMD cards are already DX12 feature compliant, no need to waste money when there's literally no reason to.

 

Because the 390X, 390 and 380 are not meant to be "low end"!

 

Aside from that, if someone is wanting a cheap GPU, the 750 Ti end, are they really going to want to spend money on a power supply that can handle a 290X in five year's time? Power efficiency is so important for those low end because they are for people who are really on a budget. The GTX 480 does not make sense as a low-mid end purchase now for this reason.

[Atmos]

Uh, the 370 is the oldest chip in the series...

 

7850 = 265 = 370

 

Oldest core architecture, not oldest card. Minds greater than my own have been through this. We love calling this stuff rebrands, and just the same thing generation after generation, but they're not actually "rebrands" they're by definition "refreshes" with each generation getting refinements in manufacturing, better power delivery, and better power efficiency. To call the new 300 series a "rebrand" is the same thing as calling the haswell-e series a "rebrand"

 

They use the same core concept, and same core architecture, but have many changes as they age with aforementioned power delivery, refinements in processing, and efficiency. So, you're right, but only like, 70% right.

[david cassar]

 

I thought the 7850 was the 260X, and the 265 was a new 200 series card.

 

 

 

Because the 390X, 390 and 380 are not meant to be "low end"!

 

Nope the 260x was the 7790. The 265 was a higher clocked 7850, while the 7870 was the r9 270/x. The only 200 series cards which were not rebrands or refreshes were the r7 250 , 285 and 290/x.

Edit : Oh and the 260 non x. But no one remembers that card lmao.

[Bouzoo]

Title: AMD officially cancels 20nm chips and takes a $33 million charge

Article: AMD moves 20nm chips to FinFET and takes a $33 million charge

To be able to move to a new project you have to cancel an old one if it's worse. They are going to move to something, that goes w/o saying. It's not like they are cancelling everything and stopping with production. So yes, the title is exactly what it's about, unless you were expecting an article like: "AMD cancels yada yada yada. There will be no new chips. End of article."

[othertomperson]

Oldest core architecture, not oldest card. Minds greater than my own have been through this. We love calling this stuff rebrands, and just the same thing generation after generation, but they're not actually "rebrands" they're by definition "refreshes" with each generation getting refinements in manufacturing, better power delivery, and better power efficiency. To call the new 300 series a "rebrand" is the same thing as calling the haswell-e series a "rebrand"

 

They use the same core concept, and same core architecture, but have many changes as they age with aforementioned power delivery, refinements in processing, and efficiency. So, you're right, but only like, 70% right.

 

Haswell E is part of Haswell, it's just X99. It's like Intel's equivalent to a Titan or Fury. It's neither a refresh or a rebrand.

[Techhog]

Oldest core architecture, not oldest card. Minds greater than my own have been through this. We love calling this stuff rebrands, and just the same thing generation after generation, but they're not actually "rebrands" they're by definition "refreshes" with each generation getting refinements in manufacturing, better power delivery, and better power efficiency. To call the new 300 series a "rebrand" is the same thing as calling the haswell-e series a "rebrand"

 

They use the same core concept, and same core architecture, but have many changes as they age with aforementioned power delivery, refinements in processing, and efficiency. So, you're right, but only like, 70% right.

Which is why I edited it to "chip"

[marldorthegreat]

ZEN is at 14nm, 20nm was probably designed mainly for gpu's, not for cpu's.

After Fiji, im not looking for anything good in zen, they are just going to overhype it. 

[marldorthegreat]

Nope the 260x was the 7790. The 265 was a higher clocked 7850, while the 7870 was the r9 270/x. The only 200 series cards which were not rebrands or refreshes were the r7 250 , 285 and 290/x.

Edit : Oh and the 260 non x. But no one remembers that card lmao.

The 260x was not a rebrand. It was a new chip. As it supported true audio and supported freesync. 

[marldorthegreat]

Strange, but I can see the sense in it. Moving to a smaller node faster is a good idea instead of having a stopgap at 20nm which would likely end up being a few years. If AMD had done stuff at 20nm, then it still wouldn't be good enough, so straight to 14nm is a more sensible choice.

Thats if it is not delayed... like 20nm... like 28nm.... like 32nm.... like 45nm....

[Atmos]

Haswell E is part of Haswell, it's just X99. It's like Intel's equivalent to a Titan or Fury. It's neither a refresh or a rebrand.

 

...

 

Haswell-e is a refresh man... and it's not just x99, its lga 1150 socketed cpu's as well... You're so blatantly mistaken it actually made me chuckle.

 

Haswell-e is a literal refresh, they took the 4770K, refined power delivery, swapped out the tim under the heatspreader, and whoala! 4790K! on a fancy 1150 socket instead of 1155. Same goes for the rest of the Haswell-e lineup. 

[Atmos]

The 260x was not a rebrand. It was a new chip. As it supported true audio and supported freesync. 

 

New card, old chip. It was using the Pitcairn architecture. Or at least it used to be called Pitcairn, it's now called after its modifications Curaçao. They took the old arc. and revamped it for a more modern gpu core, as they've done with a lot of their gpus of late.

 

Misread that bubble entirely. New chip, old architecture. The 260X was a refresh of the Bonaire XT core arc. codename Bonaire XTX. Like i said earlier it was just an older desgin revamped for newer tech. 

[david cassar]

The 260x was not a rebrand. It was a new chip. As it supported true audio and supported freesync. 

Those are software differences. It is the same chip in the hd 7790, just overclocked which in theory increased the memory transfer rate.

[harrynowl]

How are they going to defeat Intel?

TSMCs 20nm was a production process for their GPUs.

[deviant88]

I only care about the CPU Zen , thats the biggest problem right now, GPU's wise they have more sales and money in that department, but CPU market is the real problem, especially on intel side beign completely stagnant for mainstream desktop.

[vm'N]

...

 

Haswell-e is a refresh man... and it's not just x99, its lga 1150 socketed cpu's as well... You're so blatantly mistaken it actually made me chuckle.

 

Haswell-e is a literal refresh, they took the 4770K, refined power delivery, swapped out the tim under the heatspreader, and whoala! 4790K! on a fancy 1150 socket instead of 1155. Same goes for the rest of the Haswell-e lineup.

The 4790k is noit considered a haswell-e processor. It is considered a haswell refresh processor.

Haswell-e is LGA2011 with 6-8 cores.

wikis page have a nice table to see what SKU goes under what segments:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)

[othertomperson]

...

 

Haswell-e is a refresh man... and it's not just x99, its lga 1150 socketed cpu's as well... You're so blatantly mistaken it actually made me chuckle.

 

Haswell-e is a literal refresh, they took the 4770K, refined power delivery, swapped out the tim under the heatspreader, and whoala! 4790K! on a fancy 1150 socket instead of 1155. Same goes for the rest of the Haswell-e lineup. 

 

Intel says otherwise

 

By all means send Intel an email outlining how funny you find their mistake to be, you clearly know best...

[harrynowl]

Haswell-e is a refresh man... and it's not just x99, its lga 1150 socketed cpu's as well... You're so blatantly mistaken it actually made me chuckle.

 

Haswell-e is a literal refresh, they took the 4770K, refined power delivery, swapped out the tim under the heatspreader, and whoala! 4790K! on a fancy 1150 socket instead of 1155. Same goes for the rest of the Haswell-e lineup. 

Haswell-E is purely the X99 lineup (LGA2011_3), just like Sandybridge E was X79 (LGA2011) and Ivybridge E was X79 (LGA2011_2). The 4790K is Devil's Canyon. And something like the i3 4150 is Haswell Refresh. Plus 4770K was also socket 1150... the 3770K Ivy CPU was 1155. Not quite sure where you got that one from

 

______________________________________________________________________

 

Which leads to another point (unrelated to your post)... everyone had no problems with Haswell Refresh/Devil's Canyon, no-one arguing they're just rebrands of the same chips (I mean, the 4790K is the exact same silicone design as the 4770K), they just refined them and added some capacitors to the base. So if people are fine with that being a refresh then those same people should not be arguing 3xx series is a rebrand.

[Atmos]

Haswell-E is purely the X99 lineup. The 4790K is Devil's Canyon. And something like the i3 4150 is Haswell Refresh. Plus 4770K was also socket 1150... the 3770K Ivy CPU was 1155. Not quite sure where you got that one from

 

______________________________________________________________________

 

Which leads to another point (unrelated to your post)... everyone had no problems with Haswell Refresh/Devil's Canyon, no-one arguing they're just rebrands of the same chips (I mean, the 4790K is the exact same silicone design as the 4770K), they just refined them and added some capacitors to the base. So if people are fine with that being a refresh then those same people should not be arguing 3xx series is a rebrand.

 

...

 

Got that from it being 6:00 in the morning, and having been awake for almost 37 hours working on a colab. Well then. I'm going to back away slowly, and pretend this didn't happen,

[othertomperson]

Which leads to another point (unrelated to your post)... everyone had no problems with Haswell Refresh/Devil's Canyon, no-one arguing they're just rebrands of the same chips (I mean, the 4790K is the exact same silicone design as the 4770K), they just refined them and added some capacitors to the base. So if people are fine with that being a refresh then those same people should not be arguing 3xx series is a rebrand.

 

 

Because when Intel did it they called it "Haswell Refresh". When AMD did it they called it the 300 series. Do you not see the difference? Intel continued the 4th generation, they didn't announce the all new 5770k and the 5670k, and release those products as Broadwell. They called it Haswell refresh. If AMD had been open about what the 300 series is, if they had called it 200 series Refresh it would not have been a blatant lie. As it is they are shouting from the rooftops that these are not rebrands or refreshes but an entirely new generation of products.

 

And that's the problem, because people are going to look at the 4770k and 4790k and think one is slightly better than the other, one's slightly more expensive than the other. But people -- hell not even noobs, but lots of people on this forum -- look at the 290X and look at the 390X and think that they are actually different enough to warrent a different in price of £75. Maybe it is for some people, but they shouldn't be lied to to reach that conclusion.

 

From another point of view, the 290 and 290X are nearly two years old now. Haswell Refresh came about because Broadwell was taking its time, but it's here now. It didn't replace Broadwell. Rebranding last gen's products as all new this time around would be like Broadwell never existing. Unless AMD come up with something new by the end of 2015 it would be like Skylake never existing too and Haswell just making up the difference, which is not what the 300 series should have been.

 

 

...

 

Got that from it being 6:00 in the morning, and having been awake for almost 37 hours working on a colab. Well then. I'm going to back away slowly, and pretend this didn't happen,

 

I dunno, there's a limit to how obnoxious you can be about how right you are and how wrong the other person is before backtracking like that gets really awkward

[Atmos]

Because when Intel did it they called it "Haswell Refresh". When AMD did it they called it the 300 series. Do you not see the difference? Intel continued the 4th generation, they didn't announce the all new 5770k and the 5690k, and release those products as Broadwell. They called it Haswell refresh. If AMD had been open about what the 300 series is, if they had called it 200 series Refresh it would not have been a blatant lie. As it is they are shouting from the rooftops that these are not rebrands or refreshes but an entirely new generation of products.

 

And that's the problem, because people are going to look at the 4770k and 4790k and think one is slightly better than the other, one's a bit more expensive than the other. But people -- hell not even noobs, but lots of people on this forum -- look at the 290X and look at the 390X and think that they are actually different enough to warrent a different in price of £75.

 

the 390x and 290x? Well, yes. an 8gb 290X costs the same as a 390X in my area. Hell the 390X is the same price as many of the 4gb 290x's in my area. To get what is essentially a 290X 8gb with better power efficiency and significantly faster memory for the same price as a medium range 4gb model? Awesome, sign me up!

 

Really though, there have been improvements, in jayztwocents testing a stock 390 was beating out all the highest end 290's and a good number of the lower end 290x's. Thats actually pretty legit. for them to change the way it acts enough that it's basically 1/2 a tier higher in performance? I'm fine with that if they're charging the same price, which in my area, they are atm.

[othertomperson]

the 390x and 290x? Well, yes. an 8gb 290X costs the same as a 390X in my area. Hell the 390X is the same price as many of the 4gb 290x's in my area. To get what is essentially a 290X 8gb with better power efficiency and significantly faster memory for the same price as a medium range 4gb model? Awesome, sign me up!

 

Really though, there have been improvements, in jayztwocents testing a stock 390 was beating out all the highest end 290's and a good number of the lower end 290x's. Thats actually pretty legit. for them to change the way it acts enough that it's basically 1/2 a tier higher in performance? I'm fine with that if they're charging the same price, which in my area, they are atm.

 

The 290 has always done that, though. The difference between the 290 and 290X has only ever been an overclock away, and that's just what the 390 is. An overclocked 290.