ATM Industry Association announces Windows 10 migration plan, will skip Windows 8

[RH00D]

Glad they are planning migration early. I halfway cringe every time I go to use an ATM knowing its probably running a 14 year old OS long past its day.

 

 

ATMs running on older versions of Windows will be upgraded to Windows 10 when it becomes available, according to a new recommendation by the ATM Industry Association (ATMIA).

It is a cumbersome task to update the millions of ATMs each time a new version of Windows is released. Therefore, the ATMIA has now issued a position paper of recommendation for vendors to begin the deployment of Windows 10 as soon as the OS becomes available.

The currently deployed versions of Windows on these machines include Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows CE. In case of Windows XP based ATMs, the vendors are asked to go with Windows 7 as waiting for the Windows 10 release could be a risk.

In addition to the Windows 10 deployment, ATMIA is also looking at alternative ATM architectures that may support Linux or Android. Meanwhile, the association has shown support for Microsoft's One platform initiative and feels that Windows 10 will overcome the issues that impacted Windows 8 that resulted in skipping the OS from the upgrade path.

While the position paper from ATMIA makes some good suggestions, it will take plenty of time till the ATMs are actually upgraded as 95% of ATMs were running on Windows XP even after 5 years since the launch of Windows 7.

 

And from the ATMIA CEO Mike Lee:

“ATM deployers should start their 2020 migration without delay,” explained CEO Mike Lee, “as ATM hardware purchased now will still be in use when support for Windows 7 OS ends in that year. This means terminals would need to be upgradeable and compatible with the next big operating system. It’s important to know which ATM configurations are going to be Windows 10 compatible.”

The ATM industry is no stranger to large-scale migrations to newer computer operating systems, having migrated from OS/2 to Windows XP (or, in the case of many retail ATMs, to Windows CE) and, more recently, from Windows XP to Windows 7.

“For those deployers seeking alternatives, the association has a Next Generation ATM Architecture looking into such innovations as Linux-based ATMs or Android-operated ATMs,” Lee added. “We expect there to be some parallel trajectories in future with a mainstream solution adopted by the majority of deployers, probably Windows 10 in our view, and alternative systems like Linux and Android.”

 

He explains that they are also looking into alternative solutions such as Linux and Android based ATMs. It will be interesting to see if those will get off the ground. Lets see what the ATM OS marketshare will look like by 2021 as by that year all ATMs should be completely off of Windows XP and Windows 7.

 

Source: http://www.neowin.net/news/atm-industry-association-announces-windows-10-migration-plan-will-skip-windows-8

Official Source: https://www.atmia.com/news/atmia-position-paper-recommending-migration-to-windows-10/2607/

Position Paper PDF: https://www.atmia.com/files/Position%20Papers/Position%20Paper%20Recommending%20a%20Migration%20to%20Windows%2010%20Operating%20System%20-%20PUBLISHED.pdf

[FatPenguin]

wow XP doesn't even have updates anymore I wont trust me $$ on a shitty old OS

[Norman_the_Owl]

Neat. I saw an arcade game BSOD and relaunch in windows XP the other day. I was cringing and laughing at the same time.

 

Although why something as important as an ATM is running windows is beyond me. Seems like trying to build a boat out of sponge

[Mo5]

I see no reason why ATMs couldn't run Linux

[HeyKenGuy]

I see no reason why ATMs couldn't run Linux

 

because windows

[Victorious Secret]

I see no reason why ATMs couldn't run Linux

 

There are a lot of reasons why, support is a big reason. No ATM distributor wants to have the headache of needing specialized support for a goddamn ATM running an obscure OS when they can just pay for embedded Windows and get MSs business grade support when things need fixing. 

[RH00D]

wow XP doesn't even have updates anymore I wont trust me $$ on a shitty old OS

 

When I go into a store now I look at their Point of Sale terminals and if its running Windows XP I won't even buy anything there, or if I do I pay with cash instead. Most shops now are running Windows 7 but I still see a few on XP.

[AMICLG]

LOL, I can wait for the 0-day exploits. If they want them to be secure they would choose to run some form of embedded Linux with a custom hardware accelerator for encryption by either FPGA or a custom Intel 14nm (for secure uplink, one of the biggest problems is them being network connected but have no security) . If you've actually looked at the hardware in them they're super low specs (even for xp days, sometimes just a crappy ARM SoC with NT 3.1) so to think their putting a modern OS on it makes me chuckle.

[Mo5]

There are a lot of reasons why, support is a big reason. No ATM distributor wants to have the headache of needing specialized support for a goddamn ATM running an obscure OS when they can just pay for embedded Windows and get MSs business grade support when things need fixing. 

But distributors also want to save as much money as possible to make those $$$. And paying for so many licences isn't cheap.

[RH00D]

Neat. I saw an arcade game BSOD and relaunch in windows XP the other day. I was cringing and laughing at the same time.

 

Although why something as important as an ATM is running windows is beyond me. Seems like trying to build a boat out of sponge

 

Windows security is fine when configured properly, likewise Linux security can be abysmal when not configured properly.  Also when it comes to ATM security, security of the network is arguably more important than the security of the OS itself. I'm not saying OS security is not important but if someone has compromised your network then you have significantly bigger problems on your hands.

[TheSLSAMG]

But distributors also want to save as much money as possible to make those $$$. And paying for so many licences isn't cheap.

Neither is paying for said obscure specialized support. I presume they have run the numbers.

[dragosudeki]

They're probably doing this because Microsoft makes it sound like the last OS. I think it is just going to be a much longer time before they make another

[RH00D]

They're probably doing this because Microsoft makes it sound like the last OS. I think it is just going to be a much longer time before they make another

 

Windows 10 may be the "last version" as a brand like how Apple has been on OS X for 14 years. But it will continually be updated. It makes sense for the ATMIA to recommend a swift deployment of Windows 10 as staying up to date is just logical from a security and support perspective. If they waited until the very last year of Windows 7 support to migrate to Windows 10, they may run into delays and end up still having ATMs running Windows 7 past the end of support. Better to be ahead of schedule.

 

This is from Wikipedia on Windows 10 updates/releases: "Windows 10 will be serviced in a significantly different manner from previous releases of Windows.^[88] While Microsoft began to distribute a larger number of updates for Windows 8 that added features (such as interface improvements) beyond security patches and bug fixes, Windows 10 will adopt a tiered approach: users receive critical updates, security patches and non-critical updates to the operating system and its functionality as they are released. On Windows 10 Enterprise,^[65] administrators can choose between "Current Branch for Business" (CBB) and long-term support release channels. CBB will receive all updates at the same pace as consumers, but allow administrators to delay non-critical updates to ensure they are suitable for their environment. LTSB versions of Windows 10 are periodic snapshots of Windows 10's CBB branch, and will only receive critical patches over their 10-year support lifecycle. Systems can also be placed one or two versions behind the most recent LTSB version to allow for structured deployments and internal lifecycles.^[76][89][90] Stella Chernyak explained that "we have businesses [that] may have mission-critical environments where we respect the fact they want to test and stabilize the environment for a long time".^[91]

Windows 10 Home is permanently set to download and install updates automatically. Only Pro and Enterprise editions of Windows 10 may defer updates.^[63]"

 

The ATMs will likely be running a Long Term Servicing Branch version which gets a 10-year support life cycle.

[NumLock21]

When I go into a store now I look at their Point of Sale terminals and if its running Windows XP I won't even buy anything there, or if I do I pay with cash instead. Most shops now are running Windows 7 but I still see a few on XP.

ATM with XP?! in Japan there is a vending machine that's running on Intel Core i5.

[GoodBytes]

wow XP doesn't even have updates anymore I wont trust me $$ on a shitty old OS

I have seen some crashed and you can clearly see running OS/2 on them. And that was like 3 years ago.

Upgrading cost money, and the companies that runs the ATM machines, really doesn't care about you, despite the high fees they charge.

Here is a view from Black Hat showing how crappy their security is:

(it is long, but it includes ATM spitting out cash )

[Misanthrope]

Yeah when you need something to be mission critical you actually should aim to update as little as possible. Mostly security concerns and bugs but it's not like an ATM should be updated every week and such, it needs to be rock solid. I actually should be using a much more stable and minimal os like Debian but that is asking too much

[LAwLz]

Neither is paying for said obscure specialized support. I presume they have run the numbers.

Why do people keep saying GNU/Linux is obscure, especially in embedded devices? It's much more common than Windows in these areas, and every sysadmin worth a damn knows how to handle GNU/Linux. Besides, they have to pay for support even if they go with Windows.

[RH00D]

Why do people keep saying GNU/Linux is obscure, especially in embedded devices? It's much more common than Windows in these areas, and every sysadmin worth a damn knows how to handle GNU/Linux. Besides, they have to pay for support even if they go with Windows.

 

He didn't say GNU/Linux is obscure. Read it again.

[bcredeur97]

I see no reason why ATMs couldn't run Linux

This ^^

 

If I was a sysadmin for a bank, I would mention this in every single meeting

[MrRavens]

Wow I'm out of the loop. I didn't know ATMs ran on a OS. I thought they had their own custom software that they have developed for generic ATM stuff. The more you know.

[mr moose]

This will be the second time this debate has sprung up on LTT,  as fun as Linux is it is the same as any other OS,  it has places where it excels and places where it doesn't.  Engineers like to use it in routers and modems and so on, but this doesn't make it universally better as an imbedded OS.  

 

The economics behind which OS, which software vendor and which hardware to install play a bigger role than the subjective opinions of tech geeks.   For something like OS's companies will have to pay for implementation regardless which OS they choose, they will have to pay for support regardless which OS to use,  the difference between windows and Linux is that windows is ready to use out of the box with a few tweaks while banks/atm manufacturers would have to recode all their software and employ people to setup Linux.  If the extra cost of switching to linux isn't offset by the savings or the difference isn't enough on a risk analysis then why would they?