Republicans want to kill the FCC's plan to subsidize internet for the poor

[DeViLzzz]

Wow! This thread really went off the rails and is totally off topic now.

[mr moose]

Wow! This thread really went off the rails and is totally off topic now.

 

Political discussion is mostly wasted on the internet anyway.   Most users are too young or not involved enough in a first hand way to fully appreciate the pro's and cons of governance. 

[Trik'Stari]

WHAT??

 

GUI is slower because it utilizes many resources to organize the information and lay it out in a pretty fashion so that grandma Joe can understand it somewhat.

 

GUI is simply designed for that, make it easier to use for the applications that the general audience wants to use. Outside of that, it is cumbersome and very painful. A lot of the finer control of the hardware have been masked away for the sake of simplicity. As CLI lacks all the pretty colours and icons, it allows a more efficient utilization of resources, and runs very close to the theoretical performance of the PC. A lot of the things you see a PC doing actually uses commands in the background (especially in Linux).

 

The reason why enterprise usually opt for CLI-only OS's is that they do not want to waste time and money learning bizarre and hacky workarounds to problems that they can easily resolve with the interface that gets frequently updated but never overhauled. There are so many variations of GUIs that it is bewildering; they have to find a new tactic each update. That may seem easy to you, but to the professionals, it consumes time that they do not even have to begin with. They do not choose something that looks good, they choose something that works.

Yup, if I had to change my environment variables with a mouse when doing performance tuning, it would add hours to an already long night. CLI is just that much faster when you get good at it.

I actually don't care about the look of things, more the lack of mouse in CLI. IF there was a way to eliminate the "extra resources" that GUI uses (and I had a clear goal of what I was doin lol) I'd be willing to race both of you.

 

I'll admit, my experience on CLI is limited to whatever version of Unix/ubuntu this class is currently using. Things like the text editor are just terrible. Why can't I just click where I want the damned cursor to be? Why do I have a switch between typing and commands, when I could just click to a command bar for needed commands within the cursor? I just don't see it as faster, I see it as primitive.

 

Granted, I'm still adjusting to this 10-keyless k65 with smaller keys than my keyboard so that's another factor in my disliking cli (constant errors which are a pain in the ass to fix in text editors)

 

Edit: Also, almost everything in the windows GUI can be operated without the use of a mouse. Not sure if linux does that. Granted it might take a while longer to tab through everything lol

[KirbyTech]

Probably because you're in the UK and not the US. Assuming that by your use of the word Uni lol. Back when I was in high school, you could almost always figure out the answer by looking closely at the question. Now, it seems the questions are designed specifically to confuse the shit out of you, to the point you aren't quite sure what they're actually asking or want as an answer.

Nope Canada, even says on the side under my name.

[Agent181]

Political discussion is mostly wasted on the internet anyway. Most users are too young or not involved enough in a first hand way to fully appreciate the pro's and cons of governance.

Well said

[Trik'Stari]

You don't need omnipotence to understand that is true.  Look at people like famous Hollywood stars, scientists, politicians, successful business people and sportsmen. They all get offered lucrative contracts all the time.  They do not have to go out looking for jobs, jobs and income get offered to them.  Whilst for the average common man, if they aren't looking or working at keeping their job they'll die poor.

You're comparing well known people at the top of their game, who've proven themselves (whether or not we agree with how they've done it), people who are "name brand", with people (like me, you , etc) who are essentially "off brand". Is it really that hard to understand? Especially with scientists.

 

Although I do think politicians, actors, and sportsmen are SEVERELY overpaid considering what little they do for society (especially the politicians, considering they're supposed to govern society and not just line their freaking pockets with money)

 

Let's take the UK Top Gear presenters as an example.

 

Clarkson gets fired for giving some knob a fat lip (which I think is ridiculous, guy should have just given him a fat lip back and called it even)

Hammond and May quit, because they say it's not top gear without all three of them (which is true. Top Gear isn't about cars, it's about three bumbling bafoonish middle aged men making fools of themselves, with a backdrop of their love of cars. Which they do, EXTREMELY WELL).

Now, The BBC has lost their biggest show, in fact THE biggest fact based television show of all time. 200 million viewers in I don't know how many countries.

And now, Clarkson, Hammond, and May are looking at going with another broadcasting/production company.

 

Why are they getting that option? Because companies know that they are valuable. They know, that whatever show those three end up making, will be popular, and thus generate revenue.It's just like another user said to me on here. You want a job offer? You have to make a company think you are worth their time, that you are capable, that you are valuable. Which anyone can do with enough effort, PLENTY of people have gone from dirt poor college dropout, to captain of industry to have proven that. http://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-who-came-from-nothing-2013-12.

 

And that's just billionaires, not counting people who've gone from dirt poor to making millions, or people like my dad who have spent their lives working 60+ hours a week and gotten to the point that they make almost 100k a year? (he made more, but the company fired him because of a recall, that he warned them about, and was actually an engineers fault, but apparently it makes more sense to fire the plant manager rather than the engineer making WAY more than the plant manager, who actually made the mistake, and yeah, it was bullshit, but somehow it made sense to them) despite him having been a college dropout?

 

Yes, things are harder for some people than others, no that's not fair. But who said life has to be fair? Those who need help, don't get to dictate the terms of that help to those who provide it. I don't like the BS I have to jump through to get my student loan (although I don't like having a student loan in the first place, because I don't like loans and I have a healthy sense of shame) but complaining about having to redo my fafsa every year and pay back a ridiculous amount of money won't change anything.

[patrickjp93]

I actually don't care about the look of things, more the lack of mouse in CLI. IF there was a way to eliminate the "extra resources" that GUI uses (and I had a clear goal of what I was doin lol) I'd be willing to race both of you.

 

I'll admit, my experience on CLI is limited to whatever version of Unix/ubuntu this class is currently using. Things like the text editor are just terrible. Why can't I just click where I want the damned cursor to be? Why do I have a switch between typing and commands, when I could just click to a command bar for needed commands within the cursor? I just don't see it as faster, I see it as primitive.

 

Granted, I'm still adjusting to this 10-keyless k65 with smaller keys than my keyboard so that's another factor in my disliking cli (constant errors which are a pain in the ass to fix in text editors)

 

Edit: Also, almost everything in the windows GUI can be operated without the use of a mouse. Not sure if linux does that. Granted it might take a while longer to tab through everything lol

Because you'll never be able to fit all the commands you need into those bars, and the menu opening/closing will slow you down relative to typing.

 

Like I said, without aliasing and tab completion, your professor is making you do it wrong, and while I sympathize, that doesn't change the fact GUIs are slow.

 

True, but the key combos to move around it change every other update, and you can rarely guess the layout the designers chose, so it takes a while if you use a lot of applications.

[Trik'Stari]

Because you'll never be able to fit all the commands you need into those bars, and the menu opening/closing will slow you down relative to typing.

 

Like I said, without aliasing and tab completion, your professor is making you do it wrong, and while I sympathize, that doesn't change the fact GUIs are slow.

 

True, but the key combos to move around it change every other update, and you can rarely guess the layout the designers chose, so it takes a while if you use a lot of applications.

That is true.

 

I still think that CLI could be VASTLY improved by allowing the mouse to be used, but then again, I'm good with a mouse. That, and some other general improvements. Then again, I am apparently using an ANCIENT form of linux with terrible text editors.

 

Example: aww, you made a typo, guess what, in order to fix it, you have to delete that entire word, and then retype it. Why? Because deleting the erroneous letter, somehow puts the cursor back to a space between letters, and the delete key only deletes the letter it highlights. Because f**k you that's why.

 

Unless of course I'm missing a command. Because, of course, there's a special command to delete text without moving the cursor between two letters, thus making your attempt to only delete the incorrect letter possible. Because simply hitting backspace or delete can't be a thing for some retarded reason.

 

Oh, and you want to move that cursor around while in "insert mode" eh? Well guess what, if you use the arrow keys on your keyboard, they insert a new line with a letter at the beginning......because.....reasons?

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

I actually don't care about the look of things, more the lack of mouse in CLI. IF there was a way to eliminate the "extra resources" that GUI uses (and I had a clear goal of what I was doin lol) I'd be willing to race both of you.

 

I'll admit, my experience on CLI is limited to whatever version of Unix/ubuntu this class is currently using. Things like the text editor are just terrible. Why can't I just click where I want the damned cursor to be? Why do I have a switch between typing and commands, when I could just click to a command bar for needed commands within the cursor? I just don't see it as faster, I see it as primitive.

 

Granted, I'm still adjusting to this 10-keyless k65 with smaller keys than my keyboard so that's another factor in my disliking cli (constant errors which are a pain in the ass to fix in text editors)

 

Edit: Also, almost everything in the windows GUI can be operated without the use of a mouse. Not sure if linux does that. Granted it might take a while longer to tab through everything lol

 

Trust me, typing out commands and text is much faster without the need for the mouse. It is rather deceiving; it feels that you are saving time with using the cursor when you are actually wasting time dragging your mouse around and constantly switching your hand from the keyboard to mouse. Also, the risk of creating accidental errors in typing with the mouse is much greater when the keyboard is inherently more accurate at selecting text.

 

All it takes is practice, a mouse in this case is like training wheels of a bike; more comfortable to the newcomers, but does not actually get you very far. 

[patrickjp93]

That is true.

 

I still think that CLI could be VASTLY improved by allowing the mouse to be used, but then again, I'm good with a mouse. That, and some other general improvements. Then again, I am apparently using an ANCIENT form of linux with terrible text editors.

 

Example: aww, you made a typo, guess what, in order to fix it, you have to delete that entire word, and then retype it. Why? Because deleting the erroneous letter, somehow puts the cursor back to a space between letters, and the delete key only deletes the letter it highlights. Because f**k you that's why.

There are some "advanced" command prompt programs that come with window splitting and other features. There's probably one that lets you click internally too, though if you can't get there as fast with your arrow keys, I question if you have fine motor skills.

 

I've never had the displeasure of dealing with a CLI that not only didn't allow aliasing/tab completion, but also not survive backspacing. Ick.

[Trik'Stari]

Trust me, typing out commands and text is much faster without the need for the mouse. It is rather deceiving; it feels that you are saving time with using the cursor when you are actually wasting time dragging your mouse around and constantly switching your hand from the keyboard to mouse. Also, the risk of creating accidental errors in typing with the mouse is much greater when the keyboard is inherently more accurate at selecting text.

 

All it takes is practice, a mouse in this case is like training wheels of a bike; more comfortable to the newcomers, but does not actually get you very far. 

Yes but I could already do it faster with the mouse than I can with the keyboard. Is clicking seriously that difficult to you "old timers"? Because it would seriously take me half a second, if that. If only just to place the cursor where I want it. Combined with the ability to highlight, then right click + normal right click functions (like copy, cut, paste, etc).

 

There are some "advanced" command prompt programs that come with window splitting and other features. There's probably one that lets you click internally too, though if you can't get there as fast with your arrow keys, I question if you have fine motor skills.

 

I've never had the displeasure of dealing with a CLI that not only didn't allow aliasing/tab completion, but also not survive backspacing. Ick.

Yeah, I don't know wtf this thing is. Because when using a text editor, your arrow keys (when in the mode that allows you to actually type something other can commands, only insert a new line with a letter at the beginning)

 

 

From what I've been told, Linux people are in big demand, so why not make it slightly easier to user, if an nth less fast (again, I would race you on that for most tasks) so that we can have more people.

[patrickjp93]

Yes but I could already do it faster with the mouse than I can with the keyboard. Is clicking seriously that difficult to you "old timers"? Because it would seriously take me half a second, if that. If only just to place the cursor where I want it. Combined with the ability to highlight, then right click + normal right click functions (like copy, cut, paste, etc).

 

Yeah, I don't know wtf this thing is. Because when using a text editor, your arrow keys (when in the mode that allows you to actually type something other can commands, only insert a new line with a letter at the beginning)

 

 

From what I've been told, Linux people are in big demand, so why not make it slightly easier to user, if an nth less fast (again, I would race you on that for most tasks) so that we can have more people.

It's not that it's difficult. You're not doing anything difficult enough yet to see just how much time it loses you. There are comprehensive studies of thousands of users that show GUI wastes time solely based on the amount of time it takes to move the mouse, let alone the extra overhead of processing time the GUI program itself provides.

Just remember you're using probably the worst CLI that exists these days outside PintOS.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Yes but I could already do it faster with the mouse than I can with the keyboard. Is clicking seriously that difficult to you "old timers"? Because it would seriously take me half a second, if that. If only just to place the cursor where I want it. Combined with the ability to highlight, then right click + normal right click functions (like copy, cut, paste, etc).

 

You then need to improve your keyboard skills. There are quite a number of industrial settings where a mouse flat-out does not exist, in hardware or software, and there are several legitimate, technical reasons for this. In that situation you hit a brick wall. Learning to use a keyboard without a mouse prepares you for such situations in which there are actually plenty.

 

If you need the cursor functions THAT bad, check if you have CPM installed. As i said, however, this is little more than artificial assistance. You would do FAR better without it.

[mr moose]

You're comparing well known people at the top of their game, who've proven themselves (whether or not we agree with how they've done it), people who are "name brand", with people (like me, you , etc) who are essentially "off brand". Is it really that hard to understand? Especially with scientists.

 

Although I do think politicians, actors, and sportsmen are SEVERELY overpaid considering what little they do for society (especially the politicians, considering they're supposed to govern society and not just line their freaking pockets with money)

 

Let's take the UK Top Gear presenters as an example.

 

Clarkson gets fired for giving some knob a fat lip (which I think is ridiculous, guy should have just given him a fat lip back and called it even)

Hammond and May quit, because they say it's not top gear without all three of them (which is true. Top Gear isn't about cars, it's about three bumbling bafoonish middle aged men making fools of themselves, with a backdrop of their love of cars. Which they do, EXTREMELY WELL).

Now, The BBC has lost their biggest show, in fact THE biggest fact based television show of all time. 200 million viewers in I don't know how many countries.

And now, Clarkson, Hammond, and May are looking at going with another broadcasting/production company.

 

Why are they getting that option? Because companies know that they are valuable. They know, that whatever show those three end up making, will be popular, and thus generate revenue.It's just like another user said to me on here. You want a job offer? You have to make a company think you are worth their time, that you are capable, that you are valuable. Which anyone can do with enough effort, PLENTY of people have gone from dirt poor college dropout, to captain of industry to have proven that. http://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-who-came-from-nothing-2013-12.

 

And that's just billionaires, not counting people who've gone from dirt poor to making millions, or people like my dad who have spent their lives working 60+ hours a week and gotten to the point that they make almost 100k a year? (he made more, but the company fired him because of a recall, that he warned them about, and was actually an engineers fault, but apparently it makes more sense to fire the plant manager rather than the engineer making WAY more than the plant manager, who actually made the mistake, and yeah, it was bullshit, but somehow it made sense to them) despite him having been a college dropout?

 

Yes, things are harder for some people than others, no that's not fair. But who said life has to be fair? Those who need help, don't get to dictate the terms of that help to those who provide it. I don't like the BS I have to jump through to get my student loan (although I don't like having a student loan in the first place, because I don't like loans and I have a healthy sense of shame) but complaining about having to redo my fafsa every year and pay back a ridiculous amount of money won't change anything.

 

You missed the point,  sorry you wrote all that, but builders point was simply that majority of people will have to work all their lives and work at keeping that work to survive while the small portion at the top will never have to work again because they are valuable (I agree whether we agree with why they are valuable or how they got their is moot).  They will get offered jobs and contracts from so many sources and most probably have enough money earning on residual royalties to never have to work again anyway.  I think your post actually supports this.

[Victorious Secret]

You missed the point,  sorry you wrote all that, but builders point was simply that majority of people will have to work all their lives and work at keeping that work to survive while the small portion at the top will never have to work again because they are valuable (I agree whether we agree with why they are valuable or how they got their is moot).  They will get offered jobs and contracts from so many sources and most probably have enough money earning on residual royalties to never have to work again anyway.  I think your post actually supports this.

 

I'm on my way to becoming one of those people, to be honest. I got my job because of who I knew. I proved my worth. Now I have letters of recommendations from a dozen of the top surgeons in their field, in all of North America.

 

That goes far. But I put in that initial effort to get to this position of "not needing to work". Am I going to apologize for that? 

 

Lol. Never. I won't apologize for the work I did to get ahead and make myself a valued asset. I also don't feel sorry for those who squander their opportunities. 

[patrickjp93]

I'm on my way to becoming one of those people, to be honest. I got my job because of who I knew. I proved my worth. Now I have letters of recommendations from a dozen of the top surgeons in their field, in all of North America.

 

That goes far. But I put in that initial effort to get to this position of "not needing to work". Am I going to apologize for that? 

 

Lol. Never. I won't apologize for the work I did to get ahead and make myself a valued asset. I also don't feel sorry for those who squander their opportunities. 

I always have to ask this: do people know the difference between elitism and being elite?

[Trik'Stari]

You then need to improve your keyboard skills. There are quite a number of industrial settings where a mouse flat-out does not exist, in hardware or software, and there are several legitimate, technical reasons for this. In that situation you hit a brick wall. Learning to use a keyboard without a mouse prepares you for such situations in which there are actually plenty.

 

If you need the cursor functions THAT bad, check if you have CPM installed. As i said, however, this is little more than artificial assistance. You would do FAR better without it.

It's not that it's difficult. You're not doing anything difficult enough yet to see just how much time it loses you. There are comprehensive studies of thousands of users that show GUI wastes time solely based on the amount of time it takes to move the mouse, let alone the extra overhead of processing time the GUI program itself provides.

Just remember you're using probably the worst CLI that exists these days outside PintOS.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/377675-cli-vs-gui-mini-rant/?p=5104439

 

We're getting way off topic here. Made a new thread to discuss further.

[itchiTriGgeR]

Get a job, buy your Internet.

Give them Internet, and I bet Amazon will start excepting EBT cards.

The more you give them, the more they won't feel the need to have to do anything for themselves.

[ilikepizzainpeanutbutter]

According to the treasury, the U.S. government actually owes $6.176 tn. to other countries, the rest is internal U.S. debt.

I said varis countries not only to other countries.

[SansVarnic]

 

<snip>

 

Any subsidy from the government is paid out from the taxes you pay which are high enough already. More subsidies = more taxes to cover the pay outs. 

I believe in paying for what you get. Republican doctrine (at least when the party was formed) thought the same way. I am not stating I am Republican tho.

[SansVarnic]

Give them Internet, and I bet Amazon will start excepting EBT cards.

You may not be far off there but Amazon can't declare the use of ebt cards tho, the state legislature does. Shoot Conneticut may do just that, they have already attempted to open up the use ebt to buy almost anything (ill look  it up and post link later) but guns and ammo. Conn may attempt to do it again. EBT was designed to replace the food stamp.

[wpirobotbuilder]

Any subsidy from the government is paid out from the taxes you pay which are high enough already. More subsidies = more taxes to cover the pay outs. 

I believe in paying for what you get. Republican doctrine (at least when the party was formed) thought the same way. I am not stating I am Republican tho.

For the majority of people, taxes are actually at their lowest in the last 100 years. You can say you'd prefer paying less, but they're by no means high.