Republicans want to kill the FCC's plan to subsidize internet for the poor

[Trik'Stari]

That was I joke but I understand, secret military research can just be annotated as just "Ariel Defense Research".

 

But don't we already have stats for the size of the black budget? 

I think we know how big it is, but that's about it AFAIK

[Embattled]

I think we know how big it is, but that's about it AFAIK

That's what I thought.

 

And that's a bit comical when u consider how many things can just be thrown in there and called "Defense".

[patrickjp93]

May we have someone who was in poverty at some point please check this? Because I am sure the poor aren't capable of obtaining a lot of educational opportunities.

I'm your first key witness. I didn't grow up in money. My family lived in poverty for most of my childhood until I was fifteen. 

[Embattled]

I'm your first key witness. I didn't grow up in money. My family lived in poverty for most of my childhood until I was fifteen. 

But wouldn't you say other children at least had some educational opportunities you didn't have?

[jecho]

There shouldn't be subsidized Internet. ISPs are already farming there current customers because they don't want to improve infrastructure. Not only that but the federal government already gave them money to improve infrastructure, which they just pocketed. What's next. Federal subsidies for iPads. There was recently an article on the LTT forums about TWC charging $35 for the cheapest package and it cost them ~$2 to provide service to their customers on average. Subsidized Internet. F$@% NO!

[Sharp_3yE]

It should be a right given how many businesses are moving toward online-only job applications. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to a store to talk to a manager only to be directed to the internet.

No one has a right to a job, driving a car, having a phone or most things in life. What we do have a right to is the ability or freedom to pursue what ever you want to make you happy in your life.

Now, that doesn't mean our taxes shouldn't be paid for things like roads or some peoples phones or food. What it does mean is the government shouldn't take peoples money just to give it to others because they feel bad for them or think they should have something while the rest of everyone is working hard to earn the same thing. Taking money from someone to give someone else something is really just stealing. So, a discussion of what certain things that should be paid for that costs tax payer money for private use should be made about everything that is suggested. Some are an obvious yes while others are no or a maybe.

You will also always get abuse which means there has to be a system in place to reduce it.

Having private access to internet I think isn't a need. Neither is a phone but I find a phone much more important these days then internet.

[patrickjp93]

But wouldn't you say other children at least had some educational opportunities you didn't have?

In name only. Sure, I only had time to take 2 AP classes in my high school career; but I took and aced 6 exams and could have done more if I'd chosen to, though I had a love for music too and focused on developing my voice and basic piano skills during high school as well. Maybe richer schools got more field trips, but there's no way you can take the natural history museum and transplant it throughout the country, or the San Diego Zoo, but hey, with books and the Internet at the local library, you can go anywhere any time you please.

[jaggysnake57]

why do people always blame the poor for being poor?   the internet is so much more than you tube porn and games....if it could help people to do more and be less reliant on the state surely its a good thing to let people have access to...the us debt isnt as bad as what people make it out to be so its not like you cant afford it

[patrickjp93]

why do people always blame the poor for being poor? the internet is so much more than you tube porn and games....if it could help people to do more and be less reliant on the state surely its a good thing to let people have access to...the us debt isnt as bad as what people make it out to be so its not like you cant afford it

It's worse actually. The 18 trillion is just what we have spent. There's another 40 or so trillion in unfounded liabilities. We really can't afford more. And there's free internet already. Go to the library or to Starbucks/McDonald's.

[TroubleKlef]

I'm actually glad about this. Subsidized internet doesn't solve the fundamental problem of ISPs lack of competition, which if existed, wouldn't call for subsidized pricing in the first place.

[jaggysnake57]

It's worse actually. The 18 trillion is just what we have spent. There's another 40 or so trillion in unfounded liabilities. We really can't afford more. And there's free internet already. Go to the library or to Starbucks/McDonald's.

unfunded and its a bit pie in the sky.that figure seams to be based on what people think the county will spend in the next 10+ years. 18 trillion isnt that high, you see the problem with looking at debt as a figure is, it only tells half the story....the US is debt is 87% in relation to GDP. to put it into context Greece, who are in the midst of financial crisis, has a debt to GDP ratio of 170%, there debt is around 500 billion.  put it like this, if you earn 25k a year 100k debt is huge if you earn 125k a year that same 100k debt isnt so bad....its all relative.....given that your GDP is so high how much do you think free internet is really gonna cost?

[patrickjp93]

unfunded and its a bit pie in the sky.that figure seams to be based on what people think the county will spend in the next 10+ years. 18 trillion isnt that high, you see the problem with looking at debt as a figure is, it only tells half the story....the US is debt is 87% in relation to GDP. to put it into context Greece, who are in the midst of financial crisis, has a debt to GDP ratio of 170%, there debt is around 500 billion.  put it like this, if you earn 25k a year 100k debt is huge if you earn 125k a year that same 100k debt isnt so bad....its all relative.....given that your GDP is so high how much do you think free internet is really gonna cost?

No, those unfunded liabilities are guarantees of spending based on the system as it stands today in terms of medicare and other programs. Our debt is an enormous problem.

 

To put across the country? 200 billion easy.

[ObscureMammal]

 

For a rare instance, I'm inclined to agree with the GOP. The poor can go to public schools or libraries for internet and apply themselves there to better their learning and lives. Only a few edge cases, mostly linked to disability, should really need any subsidy.

If you make piss poor decisions, it should be entirely on you to pay for the consequences. Most poor people are poor because of crappy decision making. Emphasis on most. There are exceptions, notable ones, but I'm not going to write a full-length essay differentiating them all right here. In this instance, the GOP is right. 

The only ways the system works against those impoverished is giving them too much for free and enabling them to remain impoverished but in comfort. Survival instinct should kick in when you're that poor. You should be clawing your way up over the corpses of the dregs of society if you must, though do take the children with you. Most if not all of them are innocent of their parents' mistakes.

Our education system is fine. There exist enough resources outside the classroom you could teach yourself up through a full college education for free. 

If you live in a crime-ridden area, the Salvation Army can help you move out for a deferred expense you pay back when you get a job down the line. No one in this system is trapped but the truly ignorant, lazy, and/or stupid.

The poor need to get off their behinds in most cases. Nose to the grindstone and fight for what you want, because what you need has already been provided. 

 

 

Fox News is always looking for a fresh face, I'm sure you'll fit in quite well over there. You already have some of the Republican talking points down - blame the poor for their situation and call them lazy and ignorant.

[Embattled]

I still think the main problem here is HOW FUCKING EXPENSIVE EVEN A LOW SPEED CONNECTION is in many parts of the U.S. It's not like the cost of operation is even that high either, all the ISPs make HUGE profit margins and are rolling around in cash right now. All of this while they just let their infrastructure rot, their costumer service remain piss poor, and sue the hell out of anything that is even remotely a threat. 

 

Two great articles that show just how bad things have gotten: 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/02/verizon-sells-three-state-territory-including-1-6-million-fios-users/  As a So Cal resident I am scared AS SHIT from this. Right now I enjoy 100 down 75 up business class internet at my home with static IPs, granted at a huge price premium when google fiber costumers probably pay a third as much as my family does for even better service. I live in the hills a fair bit away from my cities suburbs too, so the fact that all Frontier does is let its infrastructure rot and collect money cannot bode well for me. It was a pain in the ass to convince Verizon to pull a fiber line up to where we live and they insisted that we just get shitty satellite internet. They only came and installed their shit once we heartened to go to the city over it. Kicker is the only other ISP in our area is Time Warner and they are even more shit and offer only low speeds

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/05/isps-costs-revenues-dont-support-data-cap-argument/ Self explanatory, they are making profit margins that are UNHEARD OF in any other business. Like fucking 70% shit right here. 

 

Like the reason the gov would have to subsidize so many people in the first place is because the ISPs make it so damn expensive to have even basic internet for no good reason other than their bottom line. 

[jaggysnake57]

No, those unfunded liabilities are guarantees of spending based on the system as it stands today in terms of medicare and other programs. Our debt is an enormous problem.

 

To put across the country? 200 billion easy.

there vague estimates based on "some time in the future" they dont take into account how the economy will be or what the GDP is. its like saying that your kids will cost you 500k....they might but thats over 20+ years and dosnt take into account what you will be earning further down the road...its sensationalist 

[patrickjp93]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fox News is always looking for a fresh face, I'm sure you'll fit in quite well over there. You already have some of the Republican talking points down - blame the poor for their situation and call them lazy and ignorant.

 

I speak from experience and having grown up poor. A broken clock is right twice a day, and the poor have it very easy in the U.S.. There's opportunity around every corner. Go seize it and quit whining.

[patrickjp93]

there vague estimates based on "some time in the future" they dont take into account how the economy will be or what the GDP is. its like saying that your kids will cost you 500k....they might but thats over 20+ years and dosnt take into account what you will be earning further down the road...its sensationalist 

GDP is not going to break past 4.5% for the next decade. It's not at all sensationalist. there's rigorous, but easily followed, math behind this based in solid fact. As the baby boomer generation retires, Medicare and other programs are going to come down on the treasury like a ton of bricks.

[patrickjp93]

I still think the main problem here is HOW FUCKING EXPENSIVE EVEN A LOW SPEED CONNECTION is in many parts of the U.S. It's not like the cost of operation is even that high either, all the ISPs make HUGE profit margins and are rolling around in cash right now. All of this while they just let their infrastructure rot, their costumer service remain piss poor, and sue the hell out of anything that is even remotely a threat. 

 

Two great articles that show just how bad things have gotten: 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/02/verizon-sells-three-state-territory-including-1-6-million-fios-users/  As a So Cal resident I am scared AS SHIT from this. Right now I enjoy 100 down 75 up business class internet at my home with static IPs, granted at a huge price premium when google fiber costumers probably pay a third as much as my family does for even better service. I live in the hills a fair bit away from my cities suburbs too, so the fact that all Frontier does is let its infrastructure rot and collect money cannot bode well for me. It was a pain in the ass to convince Verizon to pull a fiber line up to where we live and they insisted that we just get shitty satellite internet. They only came and installed their shit once we heartened to go to the city over it. Kicker is the only other ISP in our area is Time Warner and they are even more shit and offer only low speeds

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/05/isps-costs-revenues-dont-support-data-cap-argument/ Self explanatory, they are making profit margins that are UNHEARD OF in any other business. Like fucking 70% shit right here. 

 

Like the reason the gov would have to subsidize so many people in the first place is because the ISPs make it so damn expensive to have even basic internet for no good reason other than their bottom line. 

You should see IBM's margins on the power chips and their mainframe computers. 70% is chump change.

[jaggysnake57]

GDP is not going to break past 4.5% for the next decade. It's not at all sensationalist. there's rigorous, but easily followed, math behind this based in solid fact. As the baby boomer generation retires, Medicare and other programs are going to come down on the treasury like a ton of bricks.

 

what?  4% of what?

[Guest]

Internet access is not in your home is not a necessity. There are literally millions of public wifi locations in the us that you can use. 

 

Internet access in your home is a luxury, not a necessity. 

To be fair, here in little WV, public wi-fi is rare, and if you are putting a child through public education a internet connection is almost needed. 

[patrickjp93]

what?  4% of what?

sorry, meant to insert the word "growth." We know where we're headed with upper and lower bounds.

[AlwaysFSX]

I speak from experience and having grown up poor. A broken clock is right twice a day, and the poor have it very easy in the U.S.. There's opportunity around every corner. Go seize it and quit whining.

Actually that's not 100% true. There's very little opportunity in a lot of areas.

[patrickjp93]

Actually that's not 100% true. There's very little opportunity in a lot of areas.

An illusion. Anywhere with a public library has the same opportunity available if you're willing to look hard enough online.

[AlwaysFSX]

An illusion. Anywhere with a public library has the same opportunity available if you're willing to look hard enough online.

In the context of going from poor to not poor, not education, there is not enough opportunity everywhere.

 

Education itself, yeah that's available. Most libraries have free computers to use with internet access where you can find information on pretty much anything.

[beebskadoo]

An illusion. Anywhere with a public library has the same opportunity available if you're willing to look hard enough online.

Maybe 25 years ago that would have gotten someone somewhere, countless hours of research into a career path used to mean something, but now employers want a college degree in many fields. You can't get a college education at a library.