Skype summoned to court in Belgium

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

An investigating judge in a case regarding a local Armenian criminal organization noticed that his suspects used Skype to communicate, so the court asked Skype for "access to the conversations".

By law the court or its investigating judges can demand such access from telecom operators. "Telecom operator" is legally defined here as "someone who is operator of a network or provider of a telecom service"

Skype refused to grant access to the calls, arguing that they are not a Belgian telecom operator or provider of a telecom service and hence are not bound by Belgian laws.

Skype has now been summoned to appear in court. If the court rules that Skype is indeed a provider of a telecom service, they will have to hand over the data and possibly pay a fine up to 60.000 EUR.

Source : http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/26/skype-belgium-court-idUSL5N0YH0VA20150526?type=companyNews

Source with more info but in Dutch : http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/cultuur%2Ben%2Bmedia/media/1.2350800

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Personally I'd argue that since its primary functions are voice chat and PC->telephone calls, Skype is indeed providing a telecom service.

I also find it amusing how they'll readily hand over every random person's data to the NSA under Prism and then fight other country's courts when those try to get data on people who are actually suspected of crimes.

[Village idiot]

this might be a precedent if they win it. hmm.

[Chasem121]

Eh I hope skype wins, just because NSA forces them to give data doesn't mean they should have to give every other agency in every country their data as well. I think that peoples right to have privacy is more important than the chance of convicting these guys.

[Hexram]

The court is not an agency. If the data is required for a fair trial i dont know why skype are being douchbags about it.

[Enferk]

I don't see problem with giving access to the suspected criminals conversations. It's a part of fair trial and good law enforcement to ensure if someone guilty or not. 

[StareX]

60,000 EUR not 60.000..

[SirRoderick]

60,000 EUR not 60.000..

60,000 would be 60 EUR. We note numbers differently.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

60,000 would be 60 EUR. We note numbers differently.

Indeed, but I should have kept that in mind. I used the period out of habit instead of realizing that most of the people here use a comma indeed.

 

 

"sixty thousand" then. 

[SirRoderick]

Indeed, but I should have kept that in mind. I used the period out of habit instead of realizing that most of the people here use a comma indeed.

 

 

"sixty thousand" then. 

Hey if we conform on just about EVERYTHING else we get to be weird about that one thing

[Bouzoo]

Doesn't that mean that they should also summon every mobile operator that they used? Never heard of them being summoned.

[Xorbot]

Doesn't that mean that they should also summon every mobile operator that they used? Never heard of them being summoned.

 

Humans make sound through voice which requires exhaling air in an atmosphere.  The nation of Belgium claims air space above their land.  Therefore, Belgium is complicit in the crimes and should appear in court.

[SirRoderick]

Doesn't that mean that they should also summon every mobile operator that they used? Never heard of them being summoned.

Mobile operators comply to the laws, no need to call them to court. We actually have a department for cooperation with the police at the provider I work for.

[samcool55]

Well, screw belgium, they are stupid. 

"we need skype calls and texts to proof they are criminals" Well if you know they are criminals, you must have prove enough for that.

Just a bunch of BS, belgium, i hope you will fail.

The fact the criminals will go to jail or not won't make a huge difference for the normal people.

The criminals are known for being in the "underworld" so they probably won't bother us (normal average people) anyway.

We all know it exists, but i've never seen anything from them in the normal world. And we probably never will.

 

edit: also, 60k for skype? That's nothing for them. So they probably won't even bother complaining.

[Alurit]

Eh I hope skype wins, just because NSA forces them to give data doesn't mean they should have to give every other agency in every country their data as well. I think that peoples right to have privacy is more important than the chance of convicting these guys.

So you'd let the NSA illegally spy on you without permission for no reason, but you'd refuse a court to acquire the data of an crime organisation legally and according to law for a trial? I just can't understand that logic.

[Toddwjp]

Well, screw belgium, they are stupid. 

"we need skype calls and texts to proof they are criminals" Well if you know they are criminals, you must have prove enough for that.

Just a bunch of BS, belgium, i hope you will fail.

The fact the criminals will go to jail or not won't make a huge difference for the normal people.

The criminals are known for being in the "underworld" so they probably won't bother us (normal average people) anyway.

We all know it exists, but i've never seen anything from them in the normal world. And we probably never will.

 

edit: also, 60k for skype? That's nothing for them. So they probably won't even bother complaining.

 

umm thats why there taking them to court, to show they have a valid reason for the information. 

[samcool55]

umm thats why there taking them to court, to show they have a valid reason for the information. 

If they have a valid reason, why isn't it enough to put the criminals into jail?

If the reason they have is good enough to get the info from skype, it's good enough to put them into jail. no?

It just doesn't make sense. They need a reason to get the info, but if they have a reason, they don't need the skype stuff to get them into jail.

[zMeul]

60,000 EUR not 60.000..

60.000=60,000=60 - number formatting wise "," and "." are decimal separators

the correct form for digit grouping is 60`000 or simply .. 60000

[Toddwjp]

If they have a valid reason, why isn't it enough to put the criminals into jail?

If the reason they have is good enough to get the info from skype, it's good enough to put them into jail. no?

It just doesn't make sense. They need a reason to get the info, but if they have a reason, they don't need the skype stuff to get them into jail.

 

thats not how it works, you still aim to collect more evidence because it allows you to charge them with other crimes they might not have a 100% case on.

[Chasem121]

So you'd let the NSA illegally spy on you without permission for no reason, but you'd refuse a court to acquire the data of an crime organisation legally and according to law for a trial? I just can't understand that logic.

I don't "let" the NSA do anything, they just do it. A court should be able to convict a POTENTIAL criminal without taking their right to privacy away as well. Being accused of a crime shouldn't mean you no longer have any rights to privacy.

[Yog]

60.000=60,000=60 - number formatting wise "," and "." are decimal separators

the correct form for digit grouping is 60`000 or simply .. 60000

 

Both are right, depending on where you live.

[Xorbot]

Both are right, depending on where you live.

 

Schrodinger's Number Format.

[zMeul]

Both are right, depending on where you live.

both are wrong depending where you use them

in computer programming "," cannot be used as a decimal separator because it has it's own alternate use, especially inside a instruction / function as argument / parameter separator - thus, "." is used instead

 

pseudo-code example:

function (parameter1, parameter2, 1.99)

[as96]

Eh I hope skype wins, just because NSA forces them to give data doesn't mean they should have to give every other agency in every country their data as well. I think that peoples right to have privacy is more important than the chance of convicting these guys.

Why? If that helps win a case against a criminal organization, Skype should hand over the conversations.

[MrTiC]

The belgian law/justice system is a joke riddled with hole's the seize of mars -.-

Here you can murder someone, get 25 years and be out in 7 .... nuff said

Im pretty confident that the guys at skype will have a good laugh

[dalekphalm]

60.000=60,000=60 - number formatting wise "," and "." are decimal separators

the correct form for digit grouping is 60`000 or simply .. 60000

 

 

Both are right, depending on where you live.

 

 

 

both are wrong depending where you use them

in computer programming "," cannot be used as a decimal separator because it has it's own alternate use, especially inside a instruction / function as argument / parameter separator - thus, "." is used instead

 

pseudo-code example:

function (parameter1, parameter2, 1.99)

... what?

 

code != grammar

 

@Yog is correct.

 

In European nomenclature, 60.000 = "60000"

 

In North American nomenclature, 60,000 = "60000"

60.000 CAN equal "60", depending on the region and context, but this is not universally true. Furthermore, numbering syntax and grammar has been around a hell of a lot longer then programming syntax. The reason why "60.000" = "60" in programming is because of the limitations of computer code and avoiding confusion. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

On topic: I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I applaud Skype for taking a stand against a users privacy. On the other hand, if the Belgian courts are following the law, and getting a proper court order to have the information released because of an active, on going investigation, where they have reasonably strong suspicion that the Skype data is involved in a crime in some manner, then yes, Skype should release the data.

 

Also, to everyone saying "dur hur, NSA spies on you so who cares?" That is NOT the same thing.The NSA does not ask your permission, nor do they acquire a legal court order or warrant before stealing your data. Besides, I'm fairly sure almost everyone here disagrees with the NSA spy program. The difference is we can't do anything about it yet (Seriously though, lobby your local congress person for change).