Valve did not just give everyone in the EU a chance for game refunds

[Misanthrope]

They're never going to give a fuck about releasing broken games unless consumers -- meaning you and I, stop purchasing their broken games. Preordering also allows them to make profit off shittily made games. That's not going to happen until console players catch up with the times... eg not distributing content through discs and going to a store to purchase your game, for starters, because they always preorder their copy of a game so they can get it release day. If Valve tries and forces them to do refunds, they'll more than likely simply say: "Sucks to suck, we're moving to a new platform."

 

Agreed, but it shouldn't be entirely on consumer's side to impulse change like that. I am sorry but I do not believe the free market will magically solve everything, moving to a new platform it's just not realistic given the size of Valve right now. It might eventually happen yes but it is a lot to ask out of someone with 100+ games on their steam library already, specially for developers since it would mean they would see dramatically less sales just by not being on Steam.

 

Most other areas of life do have consumer protection laws precisely because the law recognizes the potential for consumers to be abused without em. Like I said I feel Valve already does this, so leaving them behind is an option but that doesn't means that they shouldn't be taken to court for their refusal to adhere to the law.

[Jade]

Agreed, but it shouldn't be entirely on consumer's side to impulse change like that. I am sorry but I do not believe the free market will magically solve everything, moving to a new platform it's just not realistic given the size of Valve right now. It might eventually happen yes but it is a lot to ask out of someone with 100+ games on their steam library already, specially for developers since it would mean they would see dramatically less sales just by not being on Steam.

You don't have to stop using Steam to use another platform. Origin and Steam prove that.

[Misanthrope]

You don't have to stop using Steam to use another platform. Origin and Steam prove that.

 

That is a good point yes. But you really don't want to have several competing platforms. I'll give you an example: I have 3 services right now, GOG, Steam and Uplay. I have uplay cause I was forced into it by some games I purchased through steam anyway. EA doesn't gets my bucks since they decided to go all out and not include steam at all. I have some games that I've purchased over Steam even though they're available on gog. That is because it's simply more convenient for me to use Steam. If GOG had feature parity then I would consider buying some of them on gog, specially if they are on sale at a different time and such. But even then it's a hard sale just because something rather simple like having to open, update, use credentials, etc. For a different client would make me go "meh, it's also on steam and discounted right now *clicks purchase*"

I guarantee that I am far from the only user that does this however. Just because I can point out Valve's shortcomings and unfair policies doesn't means that I think all of it is bad there are significant advantages to their service. If anything, I am highly critical cause of my desire to make a good platform better.

[Jerakl]

I'm talking about broken games. Not driver issues

You obviously didn't read that one news post about how most of the time Nvidia/AMD have to fix crappy games in drivers.

[Sonefiler]

I don't know, I got support for this in literally two days, with a full refund. 

[SXCS23]

Very interesting.  I certainly was not given that information when I went through the ordeal myself.

This was about shortly before Arkham Origins was released. I'm not sure if they don't do it anymore. I just remember mentioning my OCD about it and he was happy to help. He stressed that it was not a refund and if I wanted that game again that I would have to repurchase it even though it is the same license key. Before doing it he asked me clearly that I wanted it removed and not just hidden (which Steam allows) and I did have to confirm several times that I was okay with it and that I understood everything.

 

Also, everyone mentions that Steam support is horrible, but I haven't ever had an issue with the support. It's always been quick and easy for me (that's what she said?).

 

[euniqe]

Why are they fighting so hard against this? Origin have happily given people refunds for a long time now...

 

 

Exactly. 

 

 

Valve is just another company hugely paranoid about losing a buck, even thought all evidence points to the contrary - they will probably get MORE customers and make MORE money, not the opposite.

[pixeldensity]

Honestly, I am not bothered at all, once you download the game your right to a refund is void anyway, its not like you can try before you buy

 

Why would you buy a game, and refund it before downloading and playing it? surely you know what game your are buying?

 

maybe if they had the 24 hour return period like origin that would be great, but honestly, it 100% does not bother me

well, one time my friend bought dishonored on steam but it somehow charged him twice and gave him two copies of the game. He didn't download the game yet but he had two keys, thankfully I was willing to buy it off him, valve refused to give him a refund for the extra copy.

[mvitkun]

Don't mean to hijack but is it possible to remove games from your steam list. I just want Lucius out of my list, plus I've got a bunch of free stuff I just didn't like very much cluttering up my list. :0/

Unfortunately you have to go through steam support.  The few I've seen who have tried to remove a game from their list had to wait months before they could have them removed like any other issue.  Sometimes they wouldn't even remove the game unless you have a good reason (bought a game that has since been abandoned by the devs). 

I found that putting your games into categories helps a lot when sorting through the clutter.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2466082/how-to-hide-games-in-your-steam-library.html

[LePawel]

As a game dev student, I can see many possible ways refund can be abused

As a different game dev student, don't make shit games that need refunding.

[Trik'Stari]

Do proper research on a game, and you will decrease the likelihood that you need a refund in the first place.

 

That being said....come on Valve, if EA has a better refund policy than you, you REALLY need to get your shit together.

[TechFan@ic]

I actually hate steam, always have, from the very beginning. I hope people will begin to see why.

And I've never been anything BUT a PC gamer. Never even had a console, except a SEGA Genesis which I replaced with a Win95 PC when I was six, yes six.

[Geekazoid]

It's a good thing that I don't buy my games off Steam otherwise this would be kind of sucky.

[Geekazoid]

Are we gonna start to see a #SteamGate or #ValveGate begin to go around?

[ShadowCaptain]

I actually hate steam, always have, from the very beginning. I hope people will begin to see why.

 

Any reasons?

[TechFan@ic]

Any reasons?

Well it started out as the most awful DRM and it never grew out of it. It creates this artificial barrier between you and the product that you supposedly own. Let me be clear I'm not singling out Steam here, Origin and Ubisoft are even worse. But it's only thanks to Steam that they even exist.

I've never imagined in a million years that I would have to connect to the internet or would have to apply that massive GB+ update NOW just to play a freakin single player game. Or that I can't give my game away to a friend or resell it. To many gamers that's just the norm to me it's absolutely outrageous.

Good deals aside, there are some unmistakable flaws with Steam.

[ShadowCaptain]

Well it started out as the most awful DRM and it never grew out of it. It creates this artificial barrier between you and the product that you supposedly own. Let me be clear I'm not singling out Steam here, Origin and Ubisoft are even worse. But it's only thanks to Steam that they even exist.

I've never imagined in a million years that I would have to connect to the internet or would have to apply that massive GB+ update NOW just to play a freakin single player game. Or that I can't give my game away to a friend or resell it. To many gamers that's just the norm to me it's absolutely outrageous.

Good deals aside, there are some unmistakable flaws with Steam.

 

True but there are many benefits to the steam platform too, steam streaming, largest game library, amazing store, amazing sales, decent friend /chat system, in game browser, big picture mode, keeps all games up to date without any effort, transfer game installations around without reinstalling, file verification if there are any bugs during the install, VAC, steam workshop/ mod management, easy DLC system, join friends mid game from the desktop

 

and those are just a few off the top of my head without much thought 

[TechFan@ic]

True but there are many benefits to the steam platform too, steam streaming, largest game library, amazing store, amazing sales, decent friend /chat system, in game browser, big picture mode, keeps all games up to date without any effort, transfer game installations around without reinstalling, file verification if there are any bugs during the install, VAC, steam workshop/ mod management, easy DLC system, join friends mid game from the desktop

 

and those are just a few off the top of my head without much thought 

Valve can pile up as many awesome features as it wants, but once it takes my freedom away all of those features become absolutely useless to me.

[ShadowCaptain]

Valve can pile up as many awesome features as it wants, but once it takes my freedom away all of those features become absolutely useless to me.

 

Fair enough but I like to look at things on balance, and for me steam has enough benefits that for ME (personally) it outweighs the downsides

 

if it was DRM free, then I would say it was close to perfect, I find the steam DRM very none-intrusive, and offline mode for when I travel

and you CAN lend games to a friend, you can add them to your steam family and they can play your games, I have 3 friends sharing my library, and they have bought some games for themselves so we can play together because of it

[TechFan@ic]

Fair enough but I like to look at things on balance, and for me steam has enough benefits that for ME (personally) it outweighs the downsides

 

if it was DRM free, then I would say it was close to perfect, I find the steam DRM very none-intrusive, and offline mode for when I travel

and you CAN lend games to a friend, you can add them to your steam family and they can play your games, I have 3 friends sharing my library, and they have bought some games for themselves so we can play together because of it

It actually took a very long time for off-line mode to actually "work". Game sharing is also quite new. But both are solutions for problems that shouldn't even exist.

[ShadowCaptain]

It actually took a very long time for off-line mode to actually "work". Game sharing is also quite new. But both are solutions for problems that shouldn't even exist.

 

I agree with you, but I dont think steam would have the game library it does without its DRM protection, you would probably be stuck with developers using their own terrible DRM protection making it 10x worse, at least the steam one is easy to deal with

 

I imagine if steam only allowed DRM free games, it would only have 10% the library it does today, its that protection that developers like

 

Catch22 really, the developers should have protection, the customers should have freedom

[Linusinium]

While Valve deserves some of the flak, it's important to make the distinction that Steam wasn't driving the changes for the worse that have happened over the years. The EULA's hold the key, we don't own the games, we haven't been owning them for a while now. Ownership has been reduced to borrowing and it's not Steam that's been driving that agenda. I do hope Valve takes a closer look at this and gives Steam users more breathing room in terms of refunds. I don't think Valve lacks the will to make it right, rather it strikes me as lack of creativity to give consumers more rights without damaging the content creators.
 
It is strange though to see people get pissy with Steam and argue for consumer rights but at the same time unable to resist preordering Ubisoft games or other publishers for that matter. That's some consumer advocacy right there.

[Guest Strangerbob]

whats the point

1.buy game

2.its broken

3.cant get a refund

 

Dont buy early acces??

Your own fault???

[qwertywarrior]

Dont buy early acces??

Your own fault???

when the hell did i say early access