Obama plans to BAN 5.56 through executive order

[CatCloud]

Actually things are going the opposite direction in the US right now. Many states have passed many pro-gun state laws in the last year or so. In fact Colorado recalled a couple of state senators over their votes on gun rights issues. Kentucky recently passed a law that mandates that CLEO's have to sign NFA paperwork if the requesting citizen can pass a standard NCIS check and a 4473, regardless of the CLEO's views on the NFA.

Firearms sales in 2013 have been estimated to be double that of 2012, and 2014 was not far behind 2013. CCW permit applications have almost doubled in the last couple of years.

what the shit? Why? How is that a good thing?

[Real_PhillBert]

what the shit? Why? How is that a good thing?

Are you asking me how personal freedoms are a good thing? Or how your rights shouldn't be dependent on another persons personal views?

[ChineseChef]

what the shit? Why? How is that a good thing?

 

How is what a good thing?  And why would anything he said be bad?  Voters holding elected officials accountable to the vote, law enforcers not allowed to prevent LEGAL things they disagree with on a personal level, and generically more interest in guns and proper licensing.

[CatCloud]

Are you asking me how personal freedoms are a good thing? Or how your rights shouldn't be dependent on another persons personal views?

Both. I'm more concerned how this can be safe.

I don't think I ever want to go back to the US knowing everyone and there baby has a gun and can shot me because reasons zxy.

Insecurity must be damn high if everyone has a gun.

Or security/ law enforcement must be non existence.

Idunno... I can't picture this as a good thing, maybe because I'm not American?

Idunno

[Zhuocheng]

I support this

[Real_PhillBert]

Both. I'm more concerned how this can be safe.

Let me start with the NFA sign off. Imagine for a second that you have freedom of speech, but only if what you are saying is approved by the mayor. Does that really count? What the NFA sign off is saying is that if the person can legally own the firearm, (just about every non-felon can) it is illegal for the CLEO to refuse to sign the NFA paperwork, as that person is not a prohibited person. Given that NFA firearms are just about never (less than .0001%) used in crimes, this is a complete non-issue. There have been exactly ZERO cases of a legally owned transferable machine gun being used in a crime since 1997.

 

The violence problems that persist in the US are often misconstrued as simply gun problems, when in reality if you remove all of the gang violence from the crime statistics the US becomes considerably safer than Europe. The problem we have is a gang problem, an education problem, and a parenting problem. I am for solving problem of the angry guy with a hammer by calming down the angry man, not taking away the hammer. 

[ChineseChef]

Both. I'm more concerned how this can be safe.

I don't think I ever want to go back to the US knowing everyone and there baby has a gun and can shot me because reasons zxy.

Insecurity must be damn high if everyone has a gun.

Or security/ law enforcement must be non existence.

Idunno... I can't picture this as a good thing, maybe because I'm not American?

Idunno

 

You say this, but it is not like you are extremely likely to be involved in something.  It is really all about where you live (inner city vs small town), what you do, what kind of activities you are involved in.  It isn't the wild west out here, and even the wild west wasn't near as bad as people think it was.  Crime is steadily getting better and better in the US, and is the lowest it has been in something like 30 years.  Plus, you have to remember, "America" is a huge place, and extremely diverse.

[CatCloud]

Let me start with the NFA sign off. Imagine for a second that you have freedom of speech, but only if what you are saying is approved by the mayor. Does that really count? What the NFA sign off is saying is that if the person can legally own the firearm, (just about every non-felon can) it is illegal for the CLEO to refuse to sign the NFA paperwork, as that person is not a prohibited person. Given that NFA firearms are just about never (less than .0001%) used in crimes, this is a complete non-issue. There have been exactly ZERO cases of a legally owned transferable machine gun being used in a crime since 1997.

The violence problems that persist in the US are often misconstrued as simply gun problems, when in reality if you remove all of the gang violence from the crime statistics the US becomes considerably safer than Europe. The problem we have is a gang problem, an education problem, and a parenting problem. I am for solving problem of the angry guy with a hammer by calming down the angry man, not taking away the hammer.

what about "accidents"? Those don't count as crimes right?

[Real_PhillBert]

what about "accidents"? Those don't count as crimes right?

Your correct, accidents are not reflected in crime statistics because they are not a crime. 

 

By owning a gun, you are more likely to be hurt with a gun, this is true. But in the same way that you are more likely to be hurt in a car if you own a car. 

 

The world is a dangerous place, you can make it safer by learning to drive defensively and pay attention on the road. Similarly, if you own a gun, it is wise to learn how to handle it safely. But there are always idiots. I admit that. 

[ChineseChef]

what about "accidents"? Those don't count as crimes right?

 

Depends on the nature of the accident, but more often than not, no they don't count.

 

Just did some fast research, looks like accidental gun deaths are around 3% of yearly gun deaths (roughly 700-800).  By comparison, 30,000+ people die every year from falling.

[ObeseWalrus]

Don't hate me(I know all americans will lynch me for saying this) but the weapon law In the US is stupid as fuck, In no ideal country a man should be able to buy such firepower with only a licence, you should have a job that requires it and then pump action only for private people(farmer or millitary).

[Yoinkerman]

So did anything go through?

[Real_PhillBert]

So did anything go through?

No, necro-thread.

[boboman342]

Don't hate me(I know all americans will lynch me for saying this) but the weapon law In the US is stupid as fuck, In no ideal country a man should be able to buy such firepower with only a licence, you should have a job that requires it and then pump action only for private people(farmer or millitary).

You're not alone. Many non-Americans (no offence), including most Europeans, think the same. It has been a traditional pastime for the USA to shoot guns and stuff. Ever since we wanted to break free from Britain, we held guns by our sides.

[Atmos]

Don't hate me(I know all americans will lynch me for saying this) but the weapon law In the US is stupid as fuck, In no ideal country a man should be able to buy such firepower with only a licence, you should have a job that requires it and then pump action only for private people(farmer or millitary).

Epic thread necromancy there mate. 

 

And believe me, the vast majority of americans believe we need stricter gun control. More than 60% of citizens here voted that we need higher control over the sale and transfer of firearms, but thanks to the now majority hold of the republicans that's not going to happen. It'll be a glorious day when the republicans and esp. the tea party are rid of america, then maybe, we can have a non war declaring, safe, and just government.

 

(Note: That can't be acheived alone by democrats in america, but they are at least better at not declaring a war over false pretenses.)

[Trik'Stari]

Epic thread necromancy there mate. 

 

And believe me, the vast majority of americans believe we need stricter gun control. More than 60% of citizens here voted that we need higher control over the sale and transfer of firearms, but thanks to the now majority hold of the republicans that's not going to happen. It'll be a glorious day when the republicans and esp. the tea party are rid of america, then maybe, we can have a non war declaring, safe, and just government.

 

(Note: That can't be acheived alone by democrats in america, but they are at least better at not declaring a war over false pretenses.)

Your information is so inaccurate it's not even funny. The majority of gun owning Americans, who are of legal age to vote, own guns. But by all means, continue to blindly support the democrats and their unceasing march towards facism/communism. Because that will somehow be a good thing.

 

What america really needs, is an end to political parties, and for people to stop voting based upon those parties.

 

Not to mention that so many people own guns that the government has literally zero capability of imposing a gun ban, which is what the democrats actually want. You'd start an immediate civil war that the government could not hope to win, as the majority of the military and police would "desert" the government. Why? Because they aren't stupid enough to want to fight a battle against an unwinnable insurgency the likes of which the earth has never seen. Just ask any law enforcement officer what would happen. Just look up what happened in Connecticut when they tried to enforce and "assault" weapons registration law, so many people refused that they had to repeal the law, because there was no possible way to enforce it.

 

Don't necro a thread based on an idea that's impossible, let alone one based upon information that's not factual. The standard military 5.56 round is capable of penetrating average police body armor, as is the round from any hunting rifle bigger than a .22, even ones using lead bullets. Why? Because police body armor is meant to defeat pistol rounds. Just about any rifle will penetrate it easily.

[Unhelpful]

if its a dangerous calibre then maybe less people will be killed. 

Do you not remember what a fool you made of yourself on this thread before? Don't even comment on here.

 

http://imgur.com/a/12Pfr

[Atmos]

Your information is so inaccurate it's not even funny. The majority of gun owning Americans, who are of legal age to vote, own guns. But by all means, continue to blindly support the democrats and their unceasing march towards facism/communism. Because that will somehow be a good thing.

 

What america really needs, is an end to political parties, and for people to stop voting based upon those parties.

 

I never said that democrats were the way to a better america. All i said was that they at least don't declare wars on false pretenses.

 

And No, my information is not inaccurate. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but the vast majority of studies before the election shown that more than 60% of americans WANTED better gun control. Our system of gun control is horribly broken, with some states doing away completely of absolutely valid and responsible laws stopping people with criminal histories from purchasing large firearms, and removing restrictions on waiting periods that then the overwhelming majority of their citizens want back and think was a terrible idea to get rid of. Most of the states that did remove laws such as that are republican controlled, some democrat controlled, but most republican. So I'm sorry that my facts don't make you feel good. But just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its wrong.

 

Now there are plenty of occasions were a study can be rigged, keep that in mind, but the vast majority of studies during that time were conducted by groups from both sides of the party-line, and even some on the red side had majority ruling as wanting better levels of gun control.

[Unhelpful]

 

Source.

[Trik'Stari]

Source.

You won't find one.

 

 

I never said that democrats were the way to a better america. All i said was that they at least don't declare wars on false pretenses.

 

And No, my information is not inaccurate. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but the vast majority of studies before the election shown that more than 60% of americans WANTED better gun control. Our system of gun control is horribly broken, with some states doing away completely of absolutely valid and responsible laws stopping people with criminal histories from purchasing large firearms, and removing restrictions on waiting periods that then the overwhelming majority of their citizens want back and think was a terrible idea to get rid of. Most of the states that did remove laws such as that are republican controlled, some democrat controlled, but most republican. So I'm sorry that my facts don't make you feel good. But just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its wrong.

 

Now there are plenty of occasions were a study can be rigged, keep that in mind, but the vast majority of studies during that time were conducted by groups from both sides of the party-line, and even some on the red side had majority ruling as wanting better levels of gun control.

Your information is indeed inaccurate.

 

1. Waiting times don't do a freaking thing.

2. The "stricter controls' you want passed, are those outlawing person to person transactions (the gun trade equivalency of internet piracy), also known incorrectly as the "gun show loop hole", which is just some random person selling a gun to another, for cash, without a background check. ANYONE with a federal firearms license FFL (a licensed gun dealer) MUST perform a background check to sell a gun. That is federal law that is required in ALL STATES. No state can override that law.

 

Nothing the democrats suggest about gun laws has EVER worked. Literally NOTHING. That's part of the reason that Democrat controlled states have the absolute highest gun crime rates in the nation, because only the criminals can actually get their hands on guns. The idea of outlawing person to person gun sales, will be about as effective as outlawing internet piracy, zero effect. Not to mention that it's already a felony to sell a gun to a convicted criminal, whether or not you have an FFL. Also ignoring things like the VP suggesting that people commit a crime by firing warning shots through their door (reckless discharge of a firearm, or possibly potential murder if someone who isn't a threat is on the other side of that door)

 

Your arguments are based on ignorance, and agenda.

 

Someone please lock this thread, as the issue was already settled when someone realize that Obama had ZERO authority to do this.

[Atmos]

Source.

47% For Stricter control in 2015  58% for in 2012 (During the time i was talking about)

38% Keep where it is

14% Less Strict

http://www.gallup.com/poll/179045/less-half-americans-support-stricter-gun-laws.aspx

 

47% For Stricter control in 2015  58% for in 2012 (During the time i was talking about)

38% Keep where it is

14% Less Strict

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/10/31/support-for-new-gun-control-laws-plummets-n1912634

 

"60% of americans want stricter gun control"

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/03/17572210-morning-joe-poll-60-percent-of-americans-want-stricter-gun-laws

 

"Americans favor stricter gun control over gun rights"

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/americans-favor-stricter-control-over-gun-rig

 

58% Demanding higher levels of gun control in 2012

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/15/newtown-shooting-tighter-gun-control-laws

 

91% Want Universal Background Checks (A bill shot down by the republican controlled sector)

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/28/poll_finds_strong_support_for_gun_regulations/

[Unhelpful]

 

For a country with almost 320 million people... Sample sizes of under 2k don't cut it.

[Trik'Stari]

47% For Stricter control in 2015  58% for in 2012 (During the time i was talking about)

38% Keep where it is

14% Less Strict

http://www.gallup.com/poll/179045/less-half-americans-support-stricter-gun-laws.aspx

 

47% For Stricter control in 2015  58% for in 2012 (During the time i was talking about)

38% Keep where it is

14% Less Strict

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/10/31/support-for-new-gun-control-laws-plummets-n1912634

 

"60% of americans want stricter gun control"

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/03/17572210-morning-joe-poll-60-percent-of-americans-want-stricter-gun-laws

 

"Americans favor stricter gun control over gun rights"

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/americans-favor-stricter-control-over-gun-rig

 

58% Demanding higher levels of gun control in 2012

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/15/newtown-shooting-tighter-gun-control-laws

 

91% Want Universal Background Checks (A bill shot down by the republican controlled sector)

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/28/poll_finds_strong_support_for_gun_regulations/

Universal background checks are already a thing, as I stated. Not to mention that The Guardian, Salon, and MSNBC are a as biased as Fox News is.

 

Literally, Salon.com, they made an argument defending the Soviet unions murder of 20 million people by saying 'well they were communists, so it's okay".

 

Stricter gun controls, preventing legal carrying of firearms, DO NOT WORK. That's why cities and states where those things are illegal, have the highest violent crime rates in the nation. Why? Because a piece of paper saying "you can't do that" does almost nothing. The same way that speeding laws don't stop people from speeding, they only stop people from speeding when they can see a cop.

 

For a country with almost 320 million people... Sample sizes of under 2k don't cut it.

 

^Also this.

 

@prolemur @ixi_your_face please kill this thread. It's so very old that it's not even funny.

[Real_PhillBert]

*Polls*

You know what I love about public polls?

 

By carefully selecting the questions, along with the time and location of the poll you can get any result you want. 

 

Whats the old joke? 87% of statistics can be made to say whatever you want 68% of the time...

[spartaman64]

Do you not remember what a fool you made of yourself on this thread before? Don't even comment on here.

http://imgur.com/a/12Pfr

ikr what a fool I was guns obviously don't kill people