Some user are mad because Nvidia new driver (347.09) Blocked Overclocking for GTX 900M

[MrTiC]

 

The way it's ment to be DIGGED -, Nvidia

[Homicidium]

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Then don't comment.

He is allowed to so yeah.

On topic. I aproove this. I had a gaming laptop and my GPU would hit 75 degrees with the wind turbine fan on so I don't really see how the hell I could overclock my card.

[LAwLz]

I think the problem is that it's hard to determine if a failure was caused by overclocking or just a defect product. Overclocking on laptops is not a good idea to begin with, so there is probably a much higher risk of the GPU breaking from overclocking in a laptop compared to a desktop.

I think this is just Nvidia trying to protect themselves from a massive amount of RMAs from stupid users breaking their laptops. It seems like they have locked overclocking on the highest end GPUs as well so it is not a cause of "let's lock the low end parts so people don't just buy those and overclock them to match the high end parts" (see: Intel).

It's a shame for the responsible overclockers but dumb people need restrictions to not overdo things, and those restrictions have to apply to smart people as well.

[McMurderMonkey]

Trying to overclock a mobile GPU is a kinda stupid idea, but they should still let people choose whether they want to or not.

[Sheldon_King]

No one wants to deal with people's expensive gaming notebooks crashing left and right, and getting replacements because they weren't cautious when doing their OC. A lot of people aren't educated, so they see the shiny product advertisement that you can squeeze more out of it for free, so they crank it to 11 immediately instead of doing OCs the right way. Then the notebook dies, and the customer wants another one. It's not worth it to them to deal with this, or have their vendors deal with it, for the small minority that knows how to properly overclock.

I overclock my desktops, but I won't touch my laptops. That's about all I have to offer you. If you still want to argue with me about this, then bring some compelling argument as to why they should allow it. There hasn't been much of one yet.

You are missing teh entire point here. 

 

A: Designed for Overclocking. 

To be designed for overclocking, you would need more than just a microcode change. For instance, even a slight change to the chip design, which no Unlocked intel CPU has EVER had. The change is simply to unlock the multiplier, rise the price, and charge for a warranty to make the idiots feel better.  

 

To the same point, and I am going to restate this better since you did not understand it.   AMD and Nvidia put out chips, say the 290x and the 780ti. The chip is the same unit weather it is a Strix, a Lightning, or a reference card. MSI, Saphire, Asus etc can change the board all they want to, it will never be anything more than a tested 290x/780ti, manufactured by AMD/Nvidia, with the same design. If you claim that Desktop parts are designed to overclock (specifically the GPU), it falls into the same boat on laptops. Nvidia/AMD make the chip, and it is the same in most cases (for instance a 680/770 is only a slightly modified 780m/880m).

 

B: There are no unlocked laptop CPUs.

This is strait up bull. The x series cpus on laptops are unlocked (Intel does not allude to this in the specs, but the 5960x and 4790k specs also do not mention it!) Evidence: http://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz

and

http://ark.intel.com/products/75133/Intel-Core-i7-4930MX-Processor-Extreme-Edition-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

Evidence for unlocked multi: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core%20i7-4930MX%20Mobile%20Extreme%20Edition.html(in notes section) and http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/how-to-overclock-the-alienware-18-and-haswell-cpu-or-actually-have-it-run-full-stock-turbo-speed.734696/ (specifically overclocked (CPU) laptop  and http://www.techpowerup.com/cpudb/1460/core-i7-4930mx.html (decently respectable source).  

 

C: Laptops are very restrictive compared to desktops: 

This argument has been used for decades, and it has never truly been correct, with some exclusions (same can be said of desktops).   Most laptops can be upgraded a lot if you wanted to do so. Almost all (blame netbooks/chromebooks) laptops can have the HDD/SSD changed out for another 2.5" drive, with only a few limiting the height of the drive. Most (slightly less than Storage) can be upgraded on the RAM. Assuming the CPU is not soldered (U and HM on intel are the soldered ones, unless you are using a macbook), and the vender bothered with support beyond one cpu, it is easy to upgrade. If there was BIOS support for it, you can also upgrade GPUs on MXM compatible models (same as PCIe on desktops). 

 

The only way that laptops are more restrictive than desktops is you are limited to 4 cores minus one unit from Eurocom, and you are limited to the powerbrick, which there are laptops that are capable of using up to 330 watts on the brick, and Eurocom has units capable of 660 watts via 2 adapters. If you can not properly OC with their amazing cooling designs, a 90ish watt CPU and 2 100 watt GPUs on 660 watts, then you are abusing Voltage to a dangerous (for your safety) level.  

 

Farther you did not mention core 2, I did. Core 2 was the last ones to not have any unlocked multipliers (maybe the X versions did, Intel specs don't say). Also, are you saying a Q6600 was designed to run 1.4V or 4.3GHz? It is not an unlocked part. The P and X series chipsets did not officially support overclocking at that time. 

 

 

What is being said (probably not very clearly) is that the difference between a "Overclockable" CPU and one that is not (at least on Intel), is the PRICE, and a simple microcode ID tag. A 2500 and a 2500k are the same silicon. If as you say K is designed to overclock, then so is the vanilla 2500, oh wait, sad for you, it can not. The same silicon. It is a money grabbing exercise by intel, nothing more. 

THe GPUs are all the same chips. One is no more designed to overclock than another. They release drivers that allow it, but also viod your warranty, so you take a $200 gable with each MHz...  

(same with RAM, and Northbridge (on LGA775 and before, or all AMD boards)). 

 

What I am trying to say (and failing to do so), is overclocking is not a feature. It is a treat, and a way to make Intel some more money. 

 

EDIT: Fixing the INtel links. 

[Prastupok]

-snip-

 

With the one exception of the extreme edition mobile CPUs, you're still wrong. 

 

I was going to argue back... but when you said that last line, I lost all interest in trying to explain anything to you. But I will anyway.

You clearly aren't in the same conversation I am... I'm not talking about the GPU's warranty. I'm saying the product is designed to handle the abuse above and beyond factory clock.

 

As for the K cpus, as with ANY product in ANY market... if you want additional functionality, there will be additional price.

 

 

C: Laptops are very restrictive compared to desktops: 

This argument has been used for decades, and it has never truly been correct, with some exclusions (same can be said of desktops).   Most laptops can be upgraded a lot if you wanted to do so. Almost all (blame netbooks/chromebooks) laptops can have the HDD/SSD changed out for another 2.5" drive, with only a few limiting the height of the drive. Most (slightly less than Storage) can be upgraded on the RAM. Assuming the CPU is not soldered (U and HM on intel are the soldered ones, unless you are using a macbook), and the vender bothered with support beyond one cpu, it is easy to upgrade. If there was BIOS support for it, you can also upgrade GPUs on MXM compatible models (same as PCIe on desktops). 

 

If you REALLY think laptops aren't more restrictive than Desktops, you need to get off of this thread.

I'm not talking about upgradability. If you would have read what I said, cooling and power are where the restriction is.

Edit: BOTH cooling and power are a huge concern while overclocking.

 

Please actually read what I'm saying before trying to argue your... "points".

[Sheldon_King]

Quoted section without using plaintext making it almost invisible! 

What you said was

Laptops are very restricted compared to desktops. You have a very small amount of room to make things work in, and the power brick you get with it is what you get. There is no supplemental cooling (Beyond a cooling pad), and there is no PSU upgrade for stability. Cooling on a desktop is done with 80 - 140mm fans on average. We are talking around 45-50mm fans, depending on the notebook. You also are limited to two in most cases. Case fans, you can add on, you can liquid cool. You don't get that in a laptop. There are many constraints just to get the system working properly even at stock. Adding even more stress onto the components is a recipe for disaster. Intel/AMD/Nvidia know that, so they lock the functionality out of their own tools. Now, the only difference is that Nvidia is locking it down at a close-to-hardware level to prevent other tools from bypassing it.

 

Laptops are very restrictive compared to desktops. You then start talking about power usage and suplimental cooling, both of which are no more restrictive on a laptop than a desktop, unless you remove the stock cooling from your GPU as soon as you buy it. The power envolope is no more restrictive on a laptop than it is on a desktop. You work within the PSU you have, unless you set out to overbuild everything (which cost you more money down the road).  

 

Just agree to disagree. There was no need for Nvidia to do this (lock ocing, and they have not done it on the quadro line yet).  Overclocking is not a feature in my opinion anyway. 

[Prastupok]

What you said was

 

 

Laptops are very restrictive compared to desktops. You then start talking about power usage and suplimental cooling, both of which are no more restrictive on a laptop than a desktop, unless you remove the stock cooling from your GPU as soon as you buy it. The power envolope is no more restrictive on a laptop than it is on a desktop. You work within the PSU you have, unless you set out to overbuild everything (which cost you more money down the road).  

 

Just agree to disagree. There was no need for Nvidia to do this (lock ocing, and they have not done it on the quadro line yet).  Overclocking is not a feature in my opinion anyway. 

 

They are... and I said they are restrictive to bring my point across as there is not room for cooling like there is on the desktops.

 

"You then start talking about power usage and suplimental cooling, both of which are no more restrictive on a laptop than a desktop,"

 

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?...

 

Cooling on a laptop is ALWAYS less powerful and more restricted than it is on a desktop, as is the supplemental cooling. And power is ALWAYS much less than it is on a desktop, with no non-hacked way to upgrade it.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Prastupok

[Trik'Stari]

I think the point here is that if a user wishes to burn up their laptop by overclocking it, who the hell are Nvidia to tell them no?

 

They already paid for it, if they want they can take it out back and throw it in a fire, none of Nvidia's business.

[Dabombinable]

I think the point here is that if a user wishes to burn up their laptop by overclocking it, who the hell are Nvidia to tell them no?

 

They already paid for it, if they want they can take it out back and throw it in a fire, none of Nvidia's business.

Exactly.

[Trik'Stari]

Exactly.

addendum: if a program might cause this to happen by accident, require the creator of said program to include a warning and statement that running said program voids any and all warranties.

 

problem solved....how can lawyers be this stupid?

[Dabombinable]

addendum: if a program might cause this to happen by accident, require the creator of said program to include a warning and statement that running said program voids any and all warranties.

 

problem solved....how can lawyers be this stupid?

Didn't Nvidia already have a thing about overclocking voiding warranties? (Or at least the vendors?)

[Trik'Stari]

Didn't Nvidia already have a thing about overclocking voiding warranties? (Or at least the vendors?)

If that's true then their actions are the equivalent of spitting in the customers face for no reason.

[Sheldon_King]

They are... and I said they are restrictive to bring my point across as there is not room for cooling like there is on the desktops.

 

"You then start talking about power usage and suplimental cooling, both of which are no more restrictive on a laptop than a desktop,"

 

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?...

 

Cooling on a laptop is ALWAYS less powerful and more restricted than it is on a desktop, as is the supplemental cooling. And power is ALWAYS much less than it is on a desktop, with no non-hacked way to upgrade it.

I am sorry that you have never had the pleasure of using or working on a quality laptop. Since you seem to be a desktop only kind of guy, lets stop this disagreement right here. 

 

And Yes, I do know what I am talking about. Also, you lost all credibility at the word ALWAYS. I would like to know in what way the cooling on a nettop is better than a top of the line Sager unit, or for that matter, a Zbook 17 G2.  (Don't answer that, it is a rhetorical to get the point across). 

 

Didn't Nvidia already have a thing about overclocking voiding warranties? (Or at least the vendors?)

As I understand it, Nvidia and AMD viod the warranty for even 1MHz over stock (as does intel, unless you buy the Tuning Plan). That said, Afterburner and Trixx both have a bit about voiding the warranty in the TOC iirc (may be a popup on launch). 

[Xsilent(X)]

It is everyones freedom to do the heck he want to do with its hardware! if he wants to OC his laptop it is all his freedom to do so....

[Prastupok]

I am sorry that you have never had the pleasure of using or working on a quality laptop. Since you seem to be a desktop only kind of guy, lets stop this disagreement right here. 

 

And Yes, I do know what I am talking about. Also, you lost all credibility at the word ALWAYS. I would like to know in what way the cooling on a nettop is better than a top of the line Sager unit, or for that matter, a Zbook 17 G2.  (Don't answer that, it is a rhetorical to get the point across). 

 

As I understand it, Nvidia and AMD viod the warranty for even 1MHz over stock (as does intel, unless you buy the Tuning Plan). That said, Afterburner and Trixx both have a bit about voiding the warranty in the TOC iirc (may be a popup on launch). 

 

I've owned and used top of the line Asus laptops for 4 product generations now.

I've owned the desktop clevo with SLI graphics.

I've owned many many good laptops in my life, so don't try and discredit me on that front.

 

That being said, Desktops STILL will ALWAYS have better cooling. Even one with terribly optimized cooling. You're an idiot if you think otherwise, even on big clevos. But lets find out.

 

Trik'Stari, what has better cooling, a laptop or a desktop?

[Trik'Stari]

I've owned and used top of the line Asus laptops for 4 product generations now.

I've owned the desktop clevo with SLI graphics.

I've owned many many good laptops in my life, so don't try and discredit me on that front.

 

That being said, Desktops STILL will ALWAYS have better cooling. Even one with terribly optimized cooling. You're an idiot if you think otherwise, even on big clevos. But lets find out.

 

Trik'Stari, what has better cooling, a laptop or a desktop?

Desktop....at least mine does.

 

I'd be stunned if there was a laptop that had better cooling.

 

(btw I'm no expert here....I just post alot lol)

[Prastupok]

Desktop....at least mine does.

 

I'd be stunned if there was a laptop that had better cooling.

 

(btw I'm no expert here....I just post alot lol)

 

There isn't, don't worry. There are laptops with good cooling, but not desktop level, by any means.

[Trik'Stari]

There isn't, don't worry. There are laptops with good cooling, but not desktop level, by any means.

I've never heard of one that has cooling good enough to overclock, at least not enough of an overclock to be worth the time and effort.

 

Yeah you can get cooling stands and what not, but it's still not a very good idea. Still no reason for Nvidia to just kick people in the shins like this and say "NEIN"

 

@LukaP would be the better person to ask. he/she is the one I go to with questions

[LAwLz]

Didn't Nvidia already have a thing about overclocking voiding warranties? (Or at least the vendors?)

I don't know how it is in other countries, but here in Sweden it is up to the manufacturer to prove that the customer is responsible for the damage on a device when claiming warranty within the first 6 months.

If I destroyed my laptop though overclocking then I would have mine replaced for free unless Nvidia could prove that I was the one responsible. That's pretty much impossible for them to do. That's why I said I think this is just Nvidia trying to cover their own butts from stupid people. It's bad for people who were going to overclock them responsibly, but those are a very small minority. For like 99% of laptop customers this is just to protect them from destroying their laptops and possibly blame Nvidia for their own incompetents.

[spartaman64]

so people prefer 5-10% more speed/power above 40-50% more lifespan of their hardware?

call me a idiot but i prefer more lifespan above the power/speed

so nvidia should disable overclocking for all their gpus

[spartaman64]

Im jus wondering if this rolls back factory overclocks also because that would suck if a manufacturer overbuilt a laptop just for that overclock and have it disabled

[BrianPena]

While I see no purpose in overclocking a laptop, the owner who paid for it should have the right to do so even if it voids their warranty. I personally wouldn't care but if someone were to pay upwards of $2k I can see how they could get angry.

[Kyle86GT]

I personally think Nvidia is in the wrong on this one. Once I purchase a laptop, I own it and it's mine to do with as I please. I See it like buying a ghz edition graphics card then having it down clocked, I'm no longer getting what I paid for, if I bought it manufactured oc'ed.

I personally do overclock my laptops. I think people forget that just because it doesn't make sense for them doesn't mean it doesn't make since for others. My job requires me to live on an airplane for a week at a time and I travel a lot. I can't bring my desktop with me. So I buy gaming laptops and OC them. I know it will never be as good as my desktop but I use it often enough that I don't want to settle for medium settings when I know it could go to higher settings.