'E-Sports should be in the Olympics' Says WoW creator

[alpenwasser]

Ooookay people... Fortunately for some I don't have the time at the moment to read through
all the walls of text in this thread and disseminate who deserves a warning for what since
I'm about to head to bed. I cannot make any promises for the other mods though... Or maybe
I'll get bored when I get up and come back.


But seriously, cut out the shitty behavior and be nice to each other, we have neither the
need nor the desire for immature bickering here. Thank you, and merry Christmas.

EDIT:
Debating is fine, just, you know, in a civilized manner please.

[The Benjamins]

 

 

 

All I have to do is research how many hours a day they publicize they play on a daily basis, which is information that is readily available. All the top pros play between 6 and 12 hours a day,  the higher payed ones play up to 14 hours a day. This is information that anyone can go research. The only "pro" gamers that are playing 2-4 hours a day are weekend warriors. Which I'm not talking about. I'm talking about the actual people who don't have a real job on the side and are attempting to do this full time. Those are the numbers that they play at, that's the frequency. Most of these pro gamers are also streaming simultaneously. So what breaks are you talking about? What vacations? This is their life to play video games. I'm talking about one specific group of people. I don't know what you are talking about. Within this specific group of people they are all the same. If they weren't then they wouldn't be actual pro gamers.

 

I think they are an addict because how many hours they consume their lives with playing video games. Go ask any psychiatrist or therapist or any related physician about whether or not it is healthy or normal to be playing video games that much. Stop looking at this through tinted glasses of a video gamer yourself and examine it from the outside looking in. From a professional standpoint. 

 

Why is it stupid? Because you cannot face the facts? That it isn't a healthy lifestyle? It's the lifestyle itself that brought on the persons' depression that caused him to want to end his life.

 

 

 

Athletes don't train 6-14 hours a day every day. They train at most like 24 hours a week. Hardly an addicting lifestyle. They might be risking their lives, but we're not talking about the dangers of sports here. That's an entirely different topic and completely irrelevant. 

 

 

Playing video games is not an actual job. By your logic people who get payed to review weed and smoke it all day are considered working members of society that are constructive and benefiting the world. Your logic is severely flawed.

 

 

about the breaks every one from cloud 9 didn't play for a month after worlds, I think a month of not play is a break. I just don't like how you label people, and force them to fit your description. but whats wrong with working 6-12 hours a day, I do that at my job? their are plenty of people that work more then 10 hours a day, not just pro gamers. why do you take one person getting depressed off playing as a pro and think all pros are like that?

[Psykomantis00]

 

Playing video games is not an actual job. By your logic people who get payed to review weed and smoke it all day are considered working members of society that are constructive and benefiting the world. Your logic is severely flawed.

 

 

If you get paid for doing something, that is a job. Are you really that thick that you don't know what qualifies something as a job? 

[zacRupnow]

You're completely wrong.

It's a job if you like it or not.

They are creating entertainment that millions of people watch and create massive amounts of money.

If you work and get money from it then it's a job no matter what the task is.

I don't think E-sport fits in the Olympics especially since they don't even allow many physical sports to become Olympic.

They should rather make a separate branch like for Winter Olympics and call it E-Olympics.

Its not work, like your work or not, there has to be work for it to be a job. The worthless Royal Family in England is considered an occupation but all they do is be famous and rich because all their luxuries are paid for by the peoples taxes that should be used by the government for upgrading infrastructure. And there should not be an E Olympics, maybe something similar would be great but video games should not even dare to affiliate themselves with or even look at the Olympics.

[FakezZ]

 

Athletes don't train 6-14 hours a day every day. They train at most like 24 hours a week. Hardly an addicting lifestyle. They might be risking their lives, but we're not talking about the dangers of sports here. That's an entirely different topic and completely irrelevant.

 

First, the might train for like 6-14 hours a week, but that's not all. They have to eat very specific things every day and follow a lifestyle that while many think is healthy I would say it's boring. Also it is not only the training that they do every day, they usually also have to go to the gym etc. Also, being friends with basketball players (although not professionals, but to a decent level) they ONLY talk about sports and basketball to the point it makes me angry. Also when I said "risking their lives" I mean the doping and the drugs in sports which is HUGE. The physical dangers of the sport are far less than the drugs the athletes themselves take. Also, I would argue that the 5 member teams in League of Legends(and in other E-Sports for that matter) which I watch quite a bit, although I rarely ever play, are a lot more composed and work cooperatively than teams in basketball, football, you name it. Don't be close-minded people, remember a lot of things that today seem "normal" used to get people killed some decades ago...

[FakezZ]

People like this do not deserve Olympic medals.

But when basketball (or any sport for that matter, I just used basketball as an example) players beat up other players, the referee or the fans, it is okay huh? Also, why does this guy not deserve a medal? Like there aren't athletes that have won medals and are drug addicts, or have killed people. And you tell me that this guy does not, because he plays video games... Logic, I guess...

[ibbadib]

But when basketball (or any sport for that matter, I just used basketball as an example) players beat up other players, the referee or the fans, it is okay huh? Also, why does this guy not deserve a medal? Like there aren't athletes that have won medals and are drug addicts, or have killed people. And you tell me that this guy does not, because he plays video games... Logic, I guess...

Well, when a player beats up someone the team would get a penalty, and likely would not win.

 

IMO, people that want's to watch world championships in LoL, CS or whatever fine, do that. Buy their merchandise, watch the commercials make the players earn a living. That is all good.

 

But gaming can never be a Sport since it is not a physical activity. Chess is not a sport.  Curling is, the competition itself might not be physically challenging or hard (for the body), but the training is. eSport players doesn't need that. They need the same as every other person (enough not to die from obeseity).

 

Golf is a sport, becuase the best of them, train insanely hard, both on the gold field and in the fitness centers. They are strong as hell.

 

I am saying this as a gamer (casual one) and a swimmer. I train 20 hours a week to try and be the best. Golfers, curlers, and others do the same. Pro gamers don't train. They practice. That is where the difference is.

 

I have my definition of sport from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport

"Sport (or sports) is all forms of usually competitive physical activity"

[ibbadib]

I'm all for e-sports, but this is ridiculous. I view the Olympics as a feat of physical strength, not entertainment. (I like to pretend that ping-pong doesn't exist in the Olympics)

Ping pong is not hard?

 

Look at how damn big their legs are, that is from hours and hours of training and excercise:

[FakezZ]

Well, when a player beats up someone the team would get a penalty, and likely would not win.

 

IMO, people that want's to watch world championships in LoL, CS or whatever fine, do that. Buy their merchandise, watch the commercials make the players earn a living. That is all good.

 

But gaming can never be a Sport since it is not a physical activity. Chess is not a sport.  Curling is, the competition itself might not be physically challenging or hard (for the body), but the training is. eSport players doesn't need that. They need the same as every other person (enough not to die from obeseity).

 

Golf is a sport, becuase the best of them, train insanely hard, both on the gold field and in the fitness centers. They are strong as hell.

 

I am saying this as a gamer (casual one) and a swimmer. I train 20 hours a week to try and be the best. Golfers, curlers, and others do the same. Pro gamers don't train. They practice. That is where the difference is.

 

I have my definition of sport from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport

"Sport (or sports) is all forms of usually competitive physical activity"

Yeah exactly, by definition a sport is a competitive physical activity. Definition of physical (Using the body, especially roughly or intimately). Now you say E-Sports are not physical, however by the definition of the word physical, they definitely are! So I am sorry, but your argument is incorrect I don't think there is even an argument whether they are competitive or not

 

btw I got the definition from here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/physical?s=t

[ibbadib]

Yeah exactly, by definition a sport is a competitive physical activity. Definition of physical (Usingthebody,especiallyroughlyorintimately). Now you say E-Sports are not physical, however by the definition of the word physical, they definitely are! So I am sorry, but your argument is incorrect I don't think there is even en argument whether they are competitive or not

btw I got the definition from here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/physical?s=t

How is gaming physical?

[FakezZ]

How is gaming physical?

Ugh unless there is a way to interface with computers by pure thought, then yeah it is physical. I even gave you the definition.

[Bensemus]

@BiG-StroOnZ

One of the main reason pro gamers need to keep playing and for a while each day is games are constantly being patched. In lol the patches can be minor bug fixes or complete reworks of champs. When ever a champ changes they need to forget how it used to work and memorize its new stats. You don't want to be ingame and expect a ability to do x damage, killing them but instead it does y damage and now they can turn and kill you or force you to use flash to escape. Also in lol new champs are being released about once a month. So they have 1 month to figure out how good it is, then master it and figure out how to counter it (there is a cut off where they stay in an old patch throughout a tournament).

You as a chef don't need to worry about your spices changing or a completely new spice being created/discovered every month. If you leave, salt will still be the exact same if you come back.

Edit: I don't think esports should join the Olympic as that is a purely physical competition.

[ibbadib]

Ugh unless there is a way to interface with computers by pure thought, then yeah it is physical. I even gave you the definition.

It said, physical exercise... Gaming is not exercise.

 

EDIT: Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_exercise

[FakezZ]

It said, physical exercise... Gaming is not exercise.

 

EDIT: Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_exercise

Do you really not understand, or do you not want to understand? It specifically said physical activity. And by definition physical means "using the body". So physical activity = an activity using the body, which is used in E-Sports all the time. Unless you can interface with computers by pure thought. Look man I present you facts why E-Sports can be an Olympic Sport. I don't want you to necessarily agree with me, however you cannot tackle facts, therefore I am right, unless you present me facts that contradict with mine, which you have not.

 

EDIT: BTW activity != exercise

[Doobeedoo]

If it's competitive it's sport. There are some dumb sports out there already that don't even require brain or fast movements.

[Valinor]

I have my definition of sport from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport

"Sport (or sports) is all forms of usually competitive physical activity"

 

Not sure if you noticed, but right at the top of that page it also says "The International Olympic Committee recognizes some board games as sports including Chess." Pretty certain chess doesn't require a great deal of physical fitness...

 

On another note, a lot of the comments about how "gaming is not a sport" and "people can't make money from gaming" sound a lot like the people a few years ago, going on about how "making YouTube videos isn't a job". Which is quite ironic, seeing as we're having this discussion on a forum created by someone who makes a living from YouTube videos 

 

 

EDIT:

That being said, I don't think e-sports should be at the Olympics. It's a great spectator event, sure, but it's not (at the moment) what people watching the Olympics want to see. There's a reason that Chess isn't part of the Olympics, despite being recognised as a sport.

[BiG StroOnZ]

 

about the breaks every one from cloud 9 didn't play for a month after worlds, I think a month of not play is a break. I just don't like how you label people, and force them to fit your description. but whats wrong with working 6-12 hours a day, I do that at my job? their are plenty of people that work more then 10 hours a day, not just pro gamers. why do you take one person getting depressed off playing as a pro and think all pros are like that?

 

The problem here is that playing video games is not a job. Therefore, it is not classified as working. You are playing a game in an imaginary world that is non-existent. There is nothing constructive coming out of playing video games professionally. Because of such, you cannot compare someone working a normal work day of 8 hours to someone sitting in front of a screen playing a video game. The person didn't just get depressed, he wanted to end his life and that's a serious problem. It's not a matter of whether or not all pros are like that. It's a matter of what caused the person to behave in that manner. Which was him playing video games for an extremely long period of time on a daily basis, then discovering that all his "practice" was a waste of time. Then at that point he felt the need he should end his life. How many more instances of this do we need? Because if you think it's an isolated incident you will be mistaken when more of these scenarios pop up. Probably after people lose. 

 

 

If you get paid for doing something, that is a job. Are you really that thick that you don't know what qualifies something as a job? 

 

Drug dealers get paid for doing something? Is that considered a job? Are you really that thick-headed that you think anything that makes money can be qualified as a job? Or are you just immature and want to sit there in ignorance to tell yourself that playing video games is a job.

 

First, the might train for like 6-14 hours a week, but that's not all. They have to eat very specific things every day and follow a lifestyle that while many think is healthy I would say it's boring. Also it is not only the training that they do every day, they usually also have to go to the gym etc. Also, being friends with basketball players (although not professionals, but to a decent level) they ONLY talk about sports and basketball to the point it makes me angry. Also when I said "risking their lives" I mean the doping and the drugs in sports which is HUGE. The physical dangers of the sport are far less than the drugs the athletes themselves take. Also, I would argue that the 5 member teams in League of Legends(and in other E-Sports for that matter) which I watch quite a bit, although I rarely ever play, are a lot more composed and work cooperatively than teams in basketball, football, you name it. Don't be close-minded people, remember a lot of things that today seem "normal" used to get people killed some decades ago...

 

So eating healthy is now a problem? Because you say it's boring? How is that at all relevant? So because they talk about sports it makes you angry. But if they were pro-gamers and talked nothing but about League of Legends that would make it okay? I really don't see the point you are trying to make here. There are plenty of athletes who have hobbies and interests outside of the sports they play. If you really want to talk about people making you angry because of how much they talk about sports. I've been surrounded by people like that my whole life growing up who were friends or acquaintances. Not only did they not play a sport professionally or really play sports at all, all they talked about was Fantasy Football or "The Game" but none of them played sports frequently enough for it to even be related ("addicted to sports"). Which is why I don't see how any of this is related. My roommate in college played Baseball and was the starting pitcher. When we hung out he didn't talk about baseball or sports almost ever. So just because your friends are a certain way I don't see how that is relevant. I'm talking about the publicized hourly numbers of what entails a professional video game player. None of these numbers are anywhere near any other hobby or sport. If the hourly numbers of how frequently they played weren't so high, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. However, unfortunately, they are very high. Which is the point I'm making. It is also a combination of not just how many hours they are consuming doing so, but the activity in which they are doing - which is playing a freaking video game.

 

 

@BiG-StroOnZ
One of the main reason pro gamers need to keep playing and for a while each day is games are constantly being patched. In lol the patches can be minor bug fixes or complete reworks of champs. When ever a champ changes they need to forget how it used to work and memorize its new stats. You don't want to be ingame and expect a ability to do x damage, killing them but instead it does y damage and now they can turn and kill you or force you to use flash to escape. Also in lol new champs are being released about once a month. So they have 1 month to figure out how good it is, then master it and figure out how to counter it (there is a cut off where they stay in an old patch throughout a tournament).

You as a chef don't need to worry about your spices changing or a completely new spice being created/discovered every month. If you leave, salt will still be the exact same if you come back.

Edit: I don't think esports should join the Olympic as that is a purely physical competition.

 

Constantly? I used to play League of Legends and they weren't constantly patched. Most games aren't constantly patched in general. Most bug fixes or major edits to champions happened pretty infrequently. New champions come out maybe every 2-4 months. I stopped playing a long time ago and there's only 5 new champions since I last played. I severely doubt the game has changed that much. As much as it may seem like you have a valid counter-argument explaining why they need to play so frequently. It falls shorts because it's based on half truths. It also only applied to one particular game and there are many games that people play on the pro-level. 

 

I might not need to worry about spices changing their taste. But this is not the point I'm trying to make which you are attempting to allude to. I'm trying to point out, from an objective point of view. As someone who does and enjoys playing video games themselves. That playing video games at that frequency is not normal behavior for an adult. If you want to remain blinded by the fact that you are into technology and video games and want to use that to justify your feelings on why it is okay. Then that's understandable. But it's not okay. It's not okay for people to be doing this. It's not productive in any way shape or form to society. People are cashing in on a lifestyle that should not be promoted so aggressively. Do you know what this world would look like if everyone just one day stopped becoming productive members of society and said, you know what "I'm going to play video games for a living." This is the mindset we are promoting to a younger generation. One that is extremely dangerous.

[zacRupnow]

But when basketball (or any sport for that matter, I just used basketball as an example) players beat up other players, the referee or the fans, it is okay huh? Also, why does this guy not deserve a medal? Like there aren't athletes that have won medals and are drug addicts, or have killed people. And you tell me that this guy does not, because he plays video games... Logic, I guess...

He should get a medal at a gaming competition, Olympic medals are only for the worlds best athletes. Gamers can be athletes too, I run 6 miles every day and like playing video games at home, but you cannot be a gaming athlete.

[Psykomantis00]

 

Drug dealers get paid for doing something? Is that considered a job? Are you really that thick-headed that you think anything that makes money can be qualified as a job? Or are you just immature and want to sit there in ignorance to tell yourself that playing video games is a job.

 

 

The simple fact that you're comparing professional gamers to drug dealers makes me question your sanity. 

[Bensemus]

@BiG StroOnZ

I started playing league summer of 2013. Since then 18 champs have come out (all of which were played in tournaments although 8 are seeing constant pro play ), about 4+ reworks happened, and two seasons passed which is when riot does their biggest changes not to mention all the little tweaks that are happening. Those little tweaks can't be ignored though, in worlds Malki was pretty much perma banned as he had reserved a buff that made in op. Now one team is going to have to use up a ban to get rid of him letting the other team potentially ban out three of their champs. I'm only talking about lol as that's the game I know. I play wow but not PvP so I can't comment on its pro players.

You keep brining up the one suicide yet there are factories in Asia that had to install nets to prevent any more people from jumping off the building. Suicide is in every job. The collapsed lung example also isn't the best as that doesn't hinder him playing. If it was a hand or back injury then he would be taking time off to heal. There are many examples of American football players playing with concussions which is way worse as that injury can be severely aggravated by another hit while a collapsed lung doesn't care what you are doing as long as you don't strain it.

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2014/01/28/super-bowl-2014-concussions/

85% said they would play with a concussion. Is that addiction? It's causing bodily harm that is very difficult to reverse or not reversible at all to an organ that if it goes you are dead. A lung can be transplanted (not 100% success rate but higher than brain transplants)

You keep saying that 10h days must mean they are addicted yet I work 12h days and nights and about 60h+ a week, not addicted. Lawyers can Work 70+ hour a week. And I'm going to hazard a guess that many more jobs also have crazy work hours especially in poorer countries.

You also say it isn't a job. It is. Being a drug dealer is a job. Not one that is needed or encouraged to go into but it is still how they make money for themselves. A pro gamer's job is entertaining people, just like all pro athletes (not saying a gamer is a pro athlete as that involves a lot more physical activity). Like someone else said I find it ironic that we are disagreeing on what a job is on a forum run by someone with one of the "newest" types of job. 5 years ago people would of laughed at the notion of making a living off of YouTube and now many people do.

[ibbadib]

Not sure if you noticed, but right at the top of that page it also says "The International Olympic Committee recognizes some board games as sports including Chess." Pretty certain chess doesn't require a great deal of physical fitness...

 

On another note, a lot of the comments about how "gaming is not a sport" and "people can't make money from gaming" sound a lot like the people a few years ago, going on about how "making YouTube videos isn't a job". Which is quite ironic, seeing as we're having this discussion on a forum created by someone who makes a living from YouTube videos 

 

 

EDIT:

That being said, I don't think e-sports should be at the Olympics. It's a great spectator event, sure, but it's not (at the moment) what people watching the Olympics want to see. There's a reason that Chess isn't part of the Olympics, despite being recognised as a sport.

Okay a little embarrasing; no I did not notice :-S. Lol my mistake.

 

And I am not saying or implying that making money from gaming is dumb or anything (not sure if you meant me or not), go ahead if that's what you want to do with life.

 

 

IMO chess should have it's own catagory, like eSports have. It's all good that you want to be the best at whatever you do, Chess and eSports should just not be for the Olympics. As the two of us agree on :-). But not becuase people that watch the Olympics do not want to watch eSports (which they propably don't), it just doesn't belong there. They can have their own LoL olympics if they would like that, like chess has: https://chess24.com/en/olympiad2014

Or math: https://www.imo-official.org/

 

 

 Just some background on me so you might understand my opinions a little better:

I swim A LOT 20 hours+ every week, my goal is to be THE best (which i very loose term i know).

In public school, year 8-10, I went to a class where everyone (I mean all, because in Denmark we go to one class of ~24 people were we have all the subjects with those other 23 people), were athletes (all kind of sports). We discussed a lot what sports are; Is golf a sport? Yes we said, as the best of those train their asses of, and are some of the strongest people I have ever known. Is chess are sport? No. becuase you don't have to use your body to be good at chess (except for the movement of you arm and hand).

 

Now I have started Highschool (2. year half done), and I am going in an IT class, where most of us are boys and gamers. The guys there think that eSports are sports, because it requeires the same amount of skill as any other sport, where I went; yes it does. But you are not pushing your body, you are not using your body. That is the essence of (high level) sports. You push your body so hard, to do what is neccessary to win the next race, hole, match or whatever. And you do that because you love the training, the winning, the excercise, the friends and the challenge. I myself could not imagine my life without my sport.

 

I am very sorry for spelling mistakes, it is dark, it is night and I am not a native speaker :-)

[ibbadib]

@BiG StroOnZ

There are many examples of American football players playing with concussions which is way worse as that injury can be severely aggravated by another hit while a collapsed lung doesn't care what you are doing as long as you don't strain it.

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2014/01/28/super-bowl-2014-concussions/

85% said they would play with a concussion. Is that addiction? It's causing bodily harm that is very difficult to reverse or not reversible at all to an organ that if it goes you are dead. A lung can be transplanted (not 100% success rate but higher than brain transplants)

 

I just want to add, that the reason a football player would play with a concussion, or a swimmer with a shoulder injury, cyclist with broken bones or any other athlete would try and compete, is even though, they know the danger, they trained their whole damn lifes for that match, fight or race, and it is devastating, to not be able to compete.

[ibbadib]

Relax man. I misunderstood you, and you misunderstood me.

Yes; eSports is a physical activity as they have arms, and move them. They have eyes and blink them. If that is physical activity then yes. But by that logic, sending texts while lying in bed, by talking to Siri could be considered a sport becuase it includes physical activity (moving my vocal cord), hell Even sleeping, because I move my lungs when I sleep.

BUT that was not the point I was trying to make. To be good at a sport, you have to perfect your body through exercise and training.

And as I said before: Gamers don't train, they practice. Therefore not a sport.

[ibbadib]

If it's competitive it's sport. There are some dumb sports out there already that don't even require brain or fast movements.

Like what sports? Darts? Bow shooting?

[FakezZ]

He should get a medal at a gaming competition, Olympic medals are only for the worlds best athletes. Gamers can be athletes too, I run 6 miles every day and like playing video games at home, but you cannot be a gaming athlete.

So shooting, which is an Olympic sport, means that the shooters are real athletes. Are you kidding? A sport does not mean that the person can run 6 miles without breaking a sweat. Quit thinking that sports = big muscular people...