Target Australia Removes GTA V from shelves.

[SirSquid]

please take the union jack of your flag because your virus could spread to us & we don't won't a British anti game lobby here 

Does Kerbal space program make you a rocket engineer?

 

Does Surgeon simulator make you a surgeon?

 

Does iracing make you a Pro driver?

 

Does portal make you a test rat?

 

Does Watch_Dogs make you a hacker?

 

(The list goes on and on) 

[Schoolofmonkey]

Does Watch_Dogs make you a hacker?

 

(The list goes on and on) 

 

I often take my phone out at the light to make them go green, but my phone is always flat.

[Ragin Asian]

Ugh. Social justice warriors need to just die out. These people clearly failed to point out that about 99% of the people you need to kill to actually beat the game are males. Also the only resemblance to sexual violence I saw was a male character threatening to molest/rape another male character.

 

 

Does iracing make you a Pro driver?

 

 

It can considering it's a tool used by professional drivers.

[Tetters]

Target has always been shit.

 

Good to see things dont change, I lived in Sydney years ago and Target was shit then too

[Schoolofmonkey]

You know what's funny, the Australian Classification board is headed by a woman, now you'd think if the petition statements were true, she would of picked up on it.

 

http://www.classification.gov.au/About/BoardMembers/Pages/Classification-Board-Members.aspx

[foxhound590]

um i just got emailed this 
https://www.change.org/p/target-continue-to-sell-grand-theft-auto-5-in australia
lol

[skywake]

It is a load of BS, they're wrong to take it off the shelf but don't forget that we are talking about Target here. They aren't a specialist game store, they often choose not to stock some games and they rarely seem to understand the medium. They frequently have games from years ago just sitting on the shelves at the launch price, they never seem to understand what you're asking for and they're advertising is off the mark. It's no surprise that they don't "get it".

 

And it's not like this is "censorship" either. They're free to choose what games to stock and you're free to buy your games somewhere else. Go to JBHiFi, price match at EBGames, get it digitally. There are options. If you want to make a point about this then stop buying games from them, odds are you don't buy games there anyway. They're shooting themselves in the foot by removing a hugely popular game just as the biggest shopping month of the year is gaining momentum. Let that be the message.

 

Throwing crap at people who created the petition, chucking an online tantrum about it or dragging this all down into the whole "gamergate" crap? It's counter-productive.

[nj4ck]

Caroline Elizabeth Sarah Norton (22 March 1808 – 15 June 1877) (England)

 

Her husband was brutally beating her up, because he hated cleverness in a woman. One time, he knocked her to the floor and kicked her. She was pregnant, she lost the baby.

Back then, the law allowed men to beat their wives ("with a stick, not thicker than his thumb"). What he was doing was not ok though, even by those laws. What was she to do? Go to court? A woman back then had no right in court, furthermore, a married woman didn't exist in law. Everything belonged to a husband. If she was to divorce him, then everything would be his, even children.

At one point after one scandal, he abandoned her. He took (STOLE) her children away from her (she had no right to them), and didn't allowed her to see them. When she came to visit them, the housemaid would not let her in.

All her income as a writer was processed directly to him (and he was keeping it!), by law he owned everything that she would earn. She had no money to buy food and was often starving.

She tried to fight the law, and the infant custody act was passed, allowing separated women to see their children. But after the act was passed, he took the children to his estate in Scotland.

For six years she barely saw her children. At one point, one of her sons fell of a horse and was injured. By the time she came to visit him, he was already dead and coffined. Only after that occasion, did the husband permitted her to visit her children (occasionally).

There's some history for ya.

 

I need not say that you and I would want to murder a person that would have treated us like that. And we would have no law to defend us. But in the future when you would want to say feminist this and feminist that, learn your history please.

 

I swear every time I hear someone using the word "feminism/st" with intent of abuse, the only thing I hear is a word "lowlife" (and I bet that is what you want to say yourself when you do say it). The same thing that was used for black people - lowlife. Anti racism, feminism, same roots. And people that are feminists now, are just hurt people that actually have rights.

 

And YES I get it that it was stupid of them to make such claims, women violence in games... But please stop using keen "feminism" remarks / smirks if you know nothing about it. Don't repeat after everybody around you!

 

____

 

P.S. sorry for off topic, but I had to.

Oh believe me, I know the history of feminism. That only makes it worse to look at the deluded lynchmob that calls itself "feminism" today. Every first-wave feminist would probably turn in their grave. They are a walking bunch of jokes and I will defend to the death my right to make fun of them.

[HermanT]

Oh believe me, I know the history of feminism. That only makes it worse to look at the deluded lynchmob that calls itself "feminism" today. Every first-wave feminist would probably turn in their grave. They are a walking bunch of jokes and I will defend to the death my right to make fun of them.

well here's what happening. We, our should I say our fathers, although I think it is right to say we, have created these circumstances. It is because we were bastards and treated women like this, with disregard, that all of this BS happened in the first place. And yet it continues - just as how man had disregard for women back then, just the same most of man have disregard for women now. So much you know about history if you choose to ignore it.

 

So now we have a bunch of crazies doing things like that. And it is our generation that should suck it up and bear all of ti, so enjoy. They are a walking bunch of jokes, AS IF you are any better by doing what exactly? Don't put you attention into them. Rather than being smart and ignoring what should be ignored, you waste your youth by doing stupid things of making fun of others. Ignorance...

[nj4ck]

well here's what happening. We, our should I say our fathers, although I think it is right to say we, have created these circumstances. It is because we were bastards and treated women like this, with disregard, that all of this BS happened in the first place. And yet it continues - just as how man had disregard for women back then, just the same most of man have disregard for women now. So much you know about history if you choose to ignore it.

 

So now we have a bunch of crazies doing things like that. And it is our generation that should suck it up and bear all of ti, so enjoy. They are a walking bunch of jokes, AS IF you are any better by doing what exactly? Don't put you attention into them. Rather than being smart and ignoring what should be ignored, you waste your youth by doing stupid things of making fun of others. Ignorance...

Look, I don't know where you are from, what background you come from and what personal experiences you may have had, but there obviously seem to be some rather significant differences in the way we both view our surroundings. So with that in mind, here's a few things I disagree with you on:

 

I think it is right to say we

 

 

I'm from Germany. If I am supposed to accept personal resposibility for the mistreatment of women several decades before I was born, I'd also have to accept responsibility for the Holocaust. Do you think it would be correct to blame me, a guy in his early 20s, for the Holocaust? The amount of men running around beating their wives in this country is about as high as the number of people who plaster swastikas all over themselves and their belongings, which is not really that high of a number at all. Nevertheless, according to your logic, I should be curling up in a corner crying about how I am/was (somehow) responsible for creating the circumstances of WW2 and the Holocaust, not to mention the horrible treatment of women over centuries. I'm sorry, but I respectfully decline to do so, if you don't mind 

 

we were bastards and treated women like this

 

 

"We"? Again, I don't remember ever doing such a thing, and I most certainly am not going to accept responsibility for something I have no control over, mostly because I wasn't born yet at the time.

 

just as how man had disregard for women back then, just the same most of man have disregard for women now.

 

 

Oooh, now we're getting in hot'n'heavy 

I wonder where you draw that... lets just say "dramatic" conclusion from. Even though I'm still a young fellow, I have spent multiple years living on different continents and I have met a decent amount of men from all over the world. I know the type of man who acts towards women in such ways does exist and yes, I have met people like that. Interestingly, I've also met astonishingly abusive and malicious women. In Argentina, a girl once slipped a pretty healthy dose of MDMA or something similar into my drink, lets just say it was an "interesting" experience. Yet you'll never hear me say "most women are abusive and malicious", as you say "most men" are, which is quite a hefty claim you're making there. I wonder, wonder.... is there any evidence to back that up...?

 

 

 

AS IF you are any better by doing what exactly? Don't put you attention into them. Rather than being smart and ignoring what should be ignored, you waste your youth by doing stupid things of making fun of others

 

I make fun of them for my own personal amusement. Look at is as a hobby. I enjoy messing with them, asking them the slightly more difficult questions in a carefully polite and respectful way, and then watching them block me and call it "harrassment". I have fun making fun of stupidity, and I don't think I'm alone with that. Why do you think shows like The Daily Show are so popular? Everyone needs an occasional outlet, nothing stupid about that. And ignoring? Hell no, these people deserve medals! Why would anyone ignore such a marvellous piece of involuntary comedy? 

And "wasting my youth"? Please, I typed this in 5 minutes and the previous post was a collection of pictures from google, not exactly the most time consuming hobby.

[SurvivorNVL]

Totalbiscuit recently(today) made a video about all this nonsense going on down there, and it's just another bout of nonsense.  This is coming from a country where left is right, up is down, and creative progress is wrong as well as censorship of art is right.  It's ridiculous that the petitions and all focused on -only- a few parts of the game and say it encourages the youth of this generation to hate women and things like that.  "If it's R rated.. why did the parent buy it for the kid?" is a good question to be had and also, "Have they even seen the game?  Everyone gets equal hate, everyone.. everything, you're not encouraged to kill women or anyone other than in the main story - but people do it, because.. MONEY!  Five more dollars and I get that machete!"  But yeah.. this is just a ridiculous situation and people -really- need to stop preaching more tolerance and just get over this shit, instead of trying to set us back as all this censorship ain't doin' a good job for anything other than sating people who aren't even informed.  Rant over.  Time for jalapeno poppers :3

[Mooshi]

um i just got emailed this 

https://www.change.org/p/target-continue-to-sell-grand-theft-auto-5-in australia

lol

 

Australia is not a nation that condones censorship, nor should it be.

 

Top kek

 

Australia is infamous for being the nation where everything wants to kill you where you have to be a badass to survive, yet is a massive nanny state in terms of censorship of media at the same time. This really kills Australian cred as being a bad ass nation if it's ran by social justice warriors.

 

Yo Aussies, time to grab your pitchforks and your dingos! Oi oi oi!

[Trik'Stari]

Totalbiscuit recently(today) made a video about all this nonsense going on down there, and it's just another bout of nonsense.  This is coming from a country where left is right, up is down, and creative progress is wrong as well as censorship of art is right.  It's ridiculous that the petitions and all focused on -only- a few parts of the game and say it encourages the youth of this generation to hate women and things like that.  "If it's R rated.. why did the parent buy it for the kid?" is a good question to be had and also, "Have they even seen the game?  Everyone gets equal hate, everyone.. everything, you're not encouraged to kill women or anyone other than in the main story - but people do it, because.. MONEY!  Five more dollars and I get that machete!"  But yeah.. this is just a ridiculous situation and people -really- need to stop preaching more tolerance and just get over this shit, instead of trying to set us back as all this censorship ain't doin' a good job for anything other than sating people who aren't even informed.  Rant over.  Time for jalapeno poppers :3

You get a slow clap

 

People need to wake up and stop being so sensitive. In what world do you have a "right to not be offended"? That runs directly counter to the idea of freedom of speech. You have the right to be offended, but not the right to silence anything you find offensive.

[mr moose]

 

 

Throwing crap at people who created the petition, chucking an online tantrum about it or dragging this all down into the whole "gamergate" crap? It's counter-productive.

 

Except that if we don't put up a fight even though we don't care about target/kmart, what we are doing is allowing small lobby groups to use the internet as a large tool to fool people into supporting a cause.   If we let companies think they are doing the right thing responding to these online petitions then we open ourselves up to significantly harder battles down the line.  

 

In cases like this people need to be educated that their ideals are either misinformed or are in the minority, and that in making big noise to have things removed from sale is, in it's end result, a form of censor ship based not on fact but on personal opinion and subjective moral ideals.

[Mooshi]

Except that if we don't put up a fight even though we don't care about target/kmart, what we are doing is allowing small lobby groups to use the internet as a large tool to fool people into supporting a cause.   If we let companies think they are doing the right thing responding to these online petitions then we open ourselves up to significantly harder battles down the line.  

 

In cases like this people need to be educated that their ideals are either misinformed or are in the minority, and that in making big noise to have things removed from sale is, in it's end result, a form of censor ship based not on fact but on personal opinion and subjective moral ideals.

 

I would love for some brute honesty that only an Aussie could give to tell these lot to sod off. In GTA, there are missions where you have to kill *men* in order to progress, killing anyone in an open world game like this is on *the player* and is *optional*. If Someone is complaining about this game being violence against women without so much as even mentioning the bits where you have to kill males to even progress, they are ironically the sexist ones. Sexism isn't man v women, it's inequality against a single gender. The motives are clear when all of that is thrown out the window to push some agenda over an issue that's completely fabricated. The 90's had "video games will make you violent" and now the new trend is "video games with make you misogynists" My gf actually wants to play GTA V on PC and tells me these crazy feminazis are giving her gender a bad name and I wouldn't say she's wrong.

[SurvivorNVL]

You get a slow clap

 

People need to wake up and stop being so sensitive. In what world do you have a "right to not be offended"? That runs directly counter to the idea of freedom of speech. You have the right to be offended, but not the right to silence anything you find offensive.

I've attracted the attention of the conspiracy nut!  I won!  YES!  But in all seriousness; it is ridiculous that people use the saying, "I am offended" as if it gives them any right to shut someone else down or stop a retort or just block out anything else.  World is crazy, man.

[mr moose]

I would love for some brute honesty that only an Aussie could give to tell these lot to sod off. In GTA, there are missions where you have to kill *men* in order to progress, killing anyone in an open world game like this is on *the player* and is *optional*. If Someone is complaining about this game being violence against women without so much as even mentioning the bits where you have to kill males to even progress, they are ironically the sexist ones. Sexism isn't man v women, it's inequality against a single gender. The motives are clear when all of that is thrown out the window to push some agenda over an issue that's completely fabricated. The 90's had "video games will make you violent" and now the new trend is "video games with make you misogynists" My gf actually wants to play GTA V on PC and tells me these crazy feminazis are giving her gender a bad name and I wouldn't say she's wrong.

 

My wife agrees with you and your gf.  I am contemplating the best way to deal with this, unfortunately it is really hard to educate arrogant people. 

[Trik'Stari]

I would love for some brute honesty that only an Aussie could give to tell these lot to sod off. In GTA, there are missions where you have to kill *men* in order to progress, killing anyone in an open world game like this is on *the player* and is *optional*. If Someone is complaining about this game being violence against women without so much as even mentioning the bits where you have to kill males to even progress, they are ironically the sexist ones. Sexism isn't man v women, it's inequality against a single gender. The motives are clear when all of that is thrown out the window to push some agenda over an issue that's completely fabricated. The 90's had "video games will make you violent" and now the new trend is "video games with make you misogynists" My gf actually wants to play GTA V on PC and tells me these crazy feminazis are giving her gender a bad name and I wouldn't say she's wrong.

You get a slow clap as well

 

 

I've attracted the attention of the conspiracy nut!  I won!  YES!  But in all seriousness; it is ridiculous that people use the saying, "I am offended" as if it gives them any right to shut someone else down or stop a retort or just block out anything else.  World is crazy, man.

If I remember correctly, this whole "sexism in gaming" thing is a straw man or red herring argument. Maybe ad hominem? Hard to tell exactly which one.

[skywake]

Except that if we don't put up a fight even though we don't care about target/kmart, what we are doing is allowing small lobby groups to use the internet as a large tool to fool people into supporting a cause.   If we let companies think they are doing the right thing responding to these online petitions then we open ourselves up to significantly harder battles down the line.  

 

In cases like this people need to be educated that their ideals are either misinformed or are in the minority, and that in making big noise to have things removed from sale is, in it's end result, a form of censor ship based not on fact but on personal opinion and subjective moral ideals.

You'd have a point if it wasn't for some of the stuff online, some of the posts on the first page and some of the crap that has allegedly been sent to the people who created the petition. None of that helps. As I said I don't agree with it at all but I don't think the people acting like actual misogynistic dicks really helps. Plus at the end of the day they're free to put or not put on sale whatever they want and they're free to make a misguided political point even if it means lost sales.

 

This isn't censorship, at most it's freedom of speech. The "ban the bible" counter-campaign is cool but I reckon the best advice is to just buy your games elsewhere. If the gaming community wanted to make an actual protest about this? Then somehow they'd find a way to have a national "buy your games not-at-target" day. Without any of the bullying BS. That would actually be productive, but I doubt it.

[PerfectTemplar]

Idk if this was posted already but definitely check that out.

[mr moose]

You'd have a point if it wasn't for some of the stuff online, some of the posts on the first page and some of the crap that has allegedly been sent to the people who created the petition. None of that helps. As I said I don't agree with it at all but I don't think the people acting like actual misogynistic dicks really helps. Plus at the end of the day they're free to put or not put on sale whatever they want and they're free to make a misguided political point even if it means lost sales.

 

This isn't censorship, at most it's freedom of speech. The "ban the bible" counter-campaign is cool but I reckon the best advice is to just buy your games elsewhere. If the gaming community wanted to make an actual protest about this? Then somehow they'd find a way to have a national "buy your games not-at-target" day. Without any of the bullying BS. That would actually be productive, but I doubt it.

 

My point is still valid, it's just the effort to educate said minority/lobby groups is undermined when equally uneducated people from the other side of the debate do equally as stupid things in retaliation, as opposed to factual, logical, rational counter publicity with supporting evidence.

[skywake]

My point is still valid, it's just the effort to educate said minority/lobby groups is undermined when equally uneducated people from the other side of the debate do equally as stupid things in retaliation, as opposed to factual, logical, rational counter publicity with supporting evidence.

I'm just saying that I agree with the counter-petitions at that basic level. The decision to take the game of the shelf was a load of BS and I don't agree with it, it would be nice if they changed their mind. However the extremes of the counter-petition, the people who are sending the petition creators vile images and threats and even the people who do a fraction of that. That crap doesn't help. If anything that crap is counter-productive, it only helps to add weight to the arguments of people who want GTA taken off the shelves.

 

And at the end of the day? These companies should be free to do sell or not sell whatever they want. As Linus said on the WAN show, it's them voting with their wallet in a sense. People are going on and on about how this is censorship and against freedom of speech and that's a load of BS. I don't agree with the move but if anything its their right to protest or to express themselves however they want. If we didn't let Target take the game off the shelf or have small movements express themselves with petitions? That would be against freedom of speech. The only way this would be censorship would be if the game was actually banned or if somehow edited. That hasn't happened in this case.

[mr moose]

I'm just saying that I agree with the counter-petitions at that basic level. The decision to take the game of the shelf was a load of BS and I don't agree with it, it would be nice if they changed their mind. However the extremes of the counter-petition, the people who are sending the petition creators vile images and threats and even the people who do a fraction of that. That crap doesn't help. If anything that crap is counter-productive, it only helps to add weight to the arguments of people who want GTA taken off the shelves.

 

And at the end of the day? These companies should be free to do sell or not sell whatever they want. As Linus said on the WAN show, it's them voting with their wallet in a sense. People are going on and on about how this is censorship and against freedom of speech and that's a load of BS. I don't agree with the move but if anything its their right to protest or to express themselves however they want. If we didn't let Target take the game off the shelf or have small movements express themselves with petitions? That would be against freedom of speech. The only way this would be censorship would be if the game was actually banned or if somehow edited. That hasn't happened in this case.

 

But they are free to sell or not sell what they want,  that is not the issue nor has it ever been. The issue is that a small group of people should not be able to lie, spread false information about a product which essentially blackmails a company into not selling it.  Target chose not to sell the product because enough of their potential clientele (mothers) signed a petition in the belief that the product is misogynist and promotes violence against woman.  By Target removing the product from sale it says to those woman they are right and it also says to the rest of society that if you get enough signatures and make up lies about a product you can have it removed from shelves too.

 

This is where people need to be educated, this is where is becomes a form of censorship because the beliefs of one group prevent a product/service being delivered. Granted it is not censorship on the scale of a complete ban and there are ways around it, also it is not on the scale of the editing we saw in the southpark game, however it is still a form of censorship caused through image manipulation.     

 

I never said anything about free speech.

[Lewellyn]

I'm just saying that I agree with the counter-petitions at that basic level. The decision to take the game of the shelf was a load of BS and I don't agree with it, it would be nice if they changed their mind. However the extremes of the counter-petition, the people who are sending the petition creators vile images and threats and even the people who do a fraction of that. That crap doesn't help. If anything that crap is counter-productive, it only helps to add weight to the arguments of people who want GTA taken off the shelves.

 

And at the end of the day? These companies should be free to do sell or not sell whatever they want. As Linus said on the WAN show, it's them voting with their wallet in a sense. People are going on and on about how this is censorship and against freedom of speech and that's a load of BS. I don't agree with the move but if anything its their right to protest or to express themselves however they want. If we didn't let Target take the game off the shelf or have small movements express themselves with petitions? That would be against freedom of speech. The only way this would be censorship would be if the game was actually banned or if somehow edited. That hasn't happened in this case.

 

The whole censorship argument you bring up is nonsensical, it is wholeheartedly both a private corporate censorship and a defamation of GTA and most importantly a defamation of games across the board. The idea that playing a violent video game makes you more prone to violence has been repeatedly smashed when properly tested, there is no correlation, end of. The stores still sell movies, books, and other media that contain the very same level of portrayals of violence yet they are not barred from the store. It is a purely hypocritical stance to take on media.

 

Also, you seem to have a poor idea of what "voting with your wallet" means. Voting with YOUR wallet means that as a consumer you can make rational purchasing decisions to endorse or not businesses that have certain qualities or ethics. It does not mean a business strips from their shelves a 'controversial' product due to the belligerent pestering of an ill-willed minority.

 

"At the end of the day.. blah blah" No. Utter nonsense. At the end of the day, to what regard are the whims of extremists allowed to bully corporations with stunts like these, creating false accusations about the nature of a piece of media and demanding its removal? You can shovel your piss poor 'free speech' garbage elsewhere.

[skywake]

they are free to sell or not sell what they want

what more needs to be said?

 

Also, you seem to have a poor idea of what "voting with your wallet" means. Voting with YOUR wallet means that as a consumer you can make rational purchasing decisions to endorse or not businesses that have certain qualities or ethics. It does not mean a business strips from their shelves a 'controversial' product due to the belligerent pestering of an ill-willed minority.

They are taking a loss by not selling the game, they're choosing not to support the product by not putting it on their shelves. By refusing to put it on the shelves they're literally voting with their wallets. That's literally what it means. Again, I don't agree with their move but they're more than free to do it. Just as we're free to buy the game elsewhere. All I'm saying is that people should save their rage about censorship for when there's ACTUAL censorship and that attacking the petition creators is both immature and counter-productive.