Do I need a high end sound card?

[Recon97]

So guys which brand to go for when considering amp?

[BrianPena]

So guys which brand to go for when considering amp?

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E10K-Headphone-Amplifier-Black/dp/B00LP3AMC2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1412777559&sr=8-9&keywords=headphone+amp

 

This one is $76, but if that is not in your budget there is a $30 one on amazon if you look for it. Good luck.

[Max Ruscky]

Asus Xonar STX II is a very good soundcard that has an amplifier built in which will be more than enough for a gaming headset, however if you want to go external get the JDS Labs O2+ODAC Combo or have a look at Schiit Modi and Magni. I use Schitt  Asgard 2 and Bifrost and they are pretty awesome however quite expensive, where as the other choices might be a bit cheaper.

[BoredErica]

That is super overkill. We're amping a headset here. No more than an O2 is required, and even that is overkill. Probably one of the many Fiio amps will work, maybe E9, E10k? Syba amp/dac? (O2 is 120-130 bucks while the STX costs like 180. In this case I could just as easily recommend the Schiit Magni over the O2 just for pricing's sake.)

 

 

1000th post! 

YIPIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Max Ruscky]

yea I think you might be right wizzie O2 is definitely a better option, to be honest O2 is enough to drive a lot of headphones out there let alone a gaming headset. But I do love my schiit gear and I think it work amazingly well with my alpha dogs, but of course that is my own opinion and other people might disagree

[Recon97]

Do in just need a amp or a dac with it? Please be more specific Becuase I don't know much about how to connect hardwares. So please have a mercy.

@Dark_wizzie Congrats!

[BoredErica]

Do in just need a amp or a dac with it? Please be more specific Becuase I don't know much about how to connect hardwares. So please have a mercy.

@Dark_wizzie Congrats!

Lol, mercy granted?  :lol:

And thanks.

 

You just need an external amp. All you gotta do is plug in the amp to a power source, and plug your headphones into your amp. The amp might be one that should be plugged into a wall socket, or it might just want power via USB connection to your computer. Just look at what cable they ship with it. The Fiio e10k has a dac in it, like the Syba in addition to the amp. So you're getting a dac with it for free. But it's not a big deal. If it's an amp and a dac, it needs to connect to the PC via USB. If you want to use the dac inside, you need to go to control panel -> audio -> audio hardware and pick out the new dac that shows up.

 

I'm making it seem more difficult than it really is to set up. In reality, any idiot can figure it out given 5 minutes. I wouldn't worry about that.

 

A good practice with trying out a new amp (especially with some higher end ones) is to start the volume knob on the amp turned down to zero. Plug in headphones, and then slowly turn it up until you're getting the volume you like. It prevents things from getting too loud too fast and hurting your ears. (It's like washing your hands before you eat, it's good practice.)

[Max Ruscky]

congrats Dark_wizzie,

 

but yea what he said, they are normally very easy to set up. If its an AMP+DAC combo it will come with a USB connection or sometimes you can use optical cables or RCA cables to connect them to your PC depending on what output your motherboard has and what inputs are on AMP/DAC

[creatip123]

If you also think it makes sense that an amp which cannot output the power requirements of a headphone would cause significant drops in bass but not other frequencies, can you tell me why? (Don't tell me that it will sound "flat", I want to know what is happening on a technical level to satisfy my curiosity.)

 

 

Ummm, actually I did a video that showed lower frequencies (at least on planars) draw more currents than higher frequencies (tested with 20Hz sine tone vs 1kHz sine tone). And of course, more currents equals more power. In other words, the power draw on lower frequencies can be bigger than on higher frequencies. Meaning there's a possibility that an amp can 'inject' enough power for good mid-high frequencies, but falters on lower frequencies. If it happens in short intervals (talking about milliseconds), the user might not notice the distortions, and just deem it as 'lacking on bass', and consequently, on a bigger amp, the distortions are minimal to none, so 'the bass is there'. If it happens in longer intervals, of course the distortions are very discernible, as the case of my HE400 vs Xonar DG.

 

The video wasn't good enough though, as I did the testing with the Lepai that already got noise floor when on silent, and didn't test the voltage. Tried it later with the Aune (which got far less noise floor, not audible, but measurable), just haven't got the time to record it. I'll record it as soon as I got the spare time. 

[Majestic]

This video

(/watch?v=gyk3njDzr_8 )

 

What's with the derpyness. Already got annoyed by his pewdiepie like cut-derping after 10 seconds

[NannerBeans]

Go with a Fiio E6. No need to spend any more than that. You'll just be wasting money. 

[BoredErica]

Ummm, actually I did a video that showed lower frequencies (at least on planars) draw more currents than higher frequencies (tested with 20Hz sine tone vs 1kHz sine tone). And of course, more currents equals more power. In other words, the power draw on lower frequencies can be bigger than on higher frequencies. Meaning there's a possibility that an amp can 'inject' enough power for good mid-high frequencies, but falters on lower frequencies. If it happens in short intervals (talking about milliseconds), the user might not notice the distortions, and just deem it as 'lacking on bass', and consequently, on a bigger amp, the distortions are minimal to none, so 'the bass is there'. If it happens in longer intervals, of course the distortions are very discernible, as the case of my HE400 vs Xonar DG.

 

The video wasn't good enough though, as I did the testing with the Lepai that already got noise floor when on silent, and didn't test the voltage. Tried it later with the Aune (which got far less noise floor, not audible, but measurable), just haven't got the time to record it. I'll record it as soon as I got the spare time. 

Nope, I need more proof first. I took it to HA already (and I'll run your statement with them too). I have just found your Youtube video and I'm watching it. I want to double-check your findings that with a planar magnetic headphone (which has the same impedance all around) you can have distorted bass when not driven properly (on a planar magnetic headphone), it violates what I know and I want to get to the bottom of it. BTW, can you more specifically state how you did the test and what equipment was used?

 

 

 

 

G4ME_ZERO_-_Fact_Sheet_DE.pdf .. the German fact sheet indeed says 150 ohm but also 108 dB SPL (@1V I assume).

Onboard, especially the connectors on the backpanel, are technically line-outs with high output impedance but are normally fine with low impedance loads. The onboard implementation may only put out <1 V into a high impedance. In the worst case the output impedance is >100 ohms and the voltage would almost be divided in half into 150 ohms. Add some EQ that needs headroom or the guy just really wants to blast his ears .. I can see how he could run out of volume.

Missing bass with music but not in games? That is indeed odd.

If all of his headphones, especially lower impedance ones, sounded like that consistently, I'd say his line-outs are made to only drive 10 kOhm line-ins. In other words, the outputs are severely current limited. I haven't seen that from onboard, only from directly plugging headphones into DACs that were not made to drive headphones.

He might also be lying, or there's some effects enabled (see below).

Some options are: checking system and music player for enabled equalizers, effects ...; trying to plug the headphones into the front panel connectors (I've measured higher output voltage and lower output impedance on a few mainboards); and finally get a little headphone amp 

He noted nothing on distortion, nothing on clipping. Just "lack of bass". (Sure, technically any change is a distortion, but no distortion apart from lack of bass.) A FR change that only affected bass regions with no clipping or other distortions? Strange.

 

The Headset has a sensitivity of 108db/1vRMS, Jay's onboard is top notch, his onboard is also top notch. I find it unlikely given the specs of the headphone that Jay would have major problems running this headphone on his onboard. He's coincidentally mixing up "driving" and "power" with "loud bass", which seems to indicate a language similarity and therefore a confusion.

 

The headphone will require approx 0.71v to play at 105db. For onboard it is probably better to be safe than sorry, so I think it's justifiable to say getting an amp should be considered, however I don't think it's mandatory. But really, I wanna know what's going with the bass there and why. Also we're just talking about an amp's lack of power causing the issue, not an amp's increased distortion when driven closer to peak or higher output impedance.

 

I'm even going against Nwavguy on this one (he takes a much more safe approach). If I'm wrong I want to be proven wrong for sure. If I'm right, I love being right. If I'm wrong, I can be more right next time. Seriously, prove me wrong, it's a win-win.  :lol:

This long-ass exchange of information has already taught me at least one thing in audio so far. (When I took it over to HA)

 

 

EDIT:

People seem to want to use AKG website's spec of 105db/vrms. But Inner Fidelity's reading measure 99db/vrms. There is a big difference in their results.

[Recon97]

Umm, guys what are you talking about?. I dont understand it

[creatip123]

Umm, guys what are you talking about?. I dont understand it

 

Yeah, I guess it's a bit derailed already. If you really need an amp, then just get an E6, it should do the job well. You don't need higher end amps, but if you want to get one anyway, nothing wrong with that, as long as you remember you bought it before you like it/want it, not need it. E10k, Aune T1, O2/odac would be a few good options for dac/amp combo, if you wanna go get something nice.

 

 

Nope, I need more proof first. I took it to HA already (and I'll run your statement with them too). I have just found your Youtube video and I'm watching it. I want to double-check your findings that with a planar magnetic headphone (which has the same impedance all around) you can have distorted bass when not driven properly (on a planar magnetic headphone), it violates what I know and I want to get to the bottom of it. BTW, can you more specifically state how you did the test and what equipment was used?

 

 

Video uploaded. Posting the URL on message board, as this topic got enough derails already.

[BoredErica]

Yeah, I guess it's a bit derailed already. If you really need an amp, then just get an E6, it should do the job well. You don't need higher end amps, but if you want to get one anyway, nothing wrong with that, as long as you remember you bought it before you like it/want it, not need it. E10k, Aune T1, O2/odac would be a few good options for dac/amp combo, if you wanna go get something nice.

 

 

 

Video uploaded. Posting the URL on message board, as this topic got enough derails already.

Let's just take this to PM.

[pas008]

gaming wise

 

I cant use my odac/o2, fiios

 

which do you like(pretty descent comparison)---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxO9cd-sYA#t=815

[BoredErica]

gaming wise

 

I cant use my odac/o2, fiios

 

which do you like(pretty descent comparison)---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxO9cd-sYA#t=815

Just use Razer Surround. In that limited test I preferred the CMSS3-D but that's not enough to tell for sure. (If I were testing I'd do a more controlled test in an empty server with a friend.) The Dolby just sounded like shit. I've used it before, I didn't like it. As soon as I heard that defib revive sound on Dolby, I was basically out. It sounded like the sound was being funneled through a tunnel. WTFBBQ?

[pas008]

Just use Razer Surround. In that limited test I preferred the CMSS3-D but that's not enough to tell for sure. (If I were testing I'd do a more controlled test in an empty server with a friend.) The Dolby just sounded like shit. I've used it before, I didn't like it. As soon as I heard that defib revive sound on Dolby, I was basically out. It sounded like the sound was being funneled through a tunnel. WTFBBQ?

tried it, yahamas silent cinema was better til i used sbx

 

so I made external zxr with old itx case i had and mining extender,

[JayzTwoCents]

Ahh, the Audiophile Religion, alive and well. I don't pretend to know much in audio, nor do I even want to get involved. People take it way more serious than its worth, especially since we all have different hearing ranges anyway. DB drags destroyed my low frequency sensitivity long ago and I dont plan to kill whats left of my hearing arguing over what I can still hear. 

 

Have a nice day. 

[BoredErica]

Ahh, the Audiophile Religion, alive and well. I don't pretend to know much in audio, nor do I even want to get involved. People take it way more serious than its worth, especially since we all have different hearing ranges anyway. DB drags destroyed my low frequency sensitivity long ago and I dont plan to kill whats left of my hearing arguing over what I can still hear. 

 

Have a nice day. 

You are insulting people when you call it an 'audiophile religion'. When you make such a broad statement, people are also liable to getting confused and think you're talking about them when you are not. Religion is about dogma. I was willing to discuss why my understanding of headphones and their need for power is incorrect. I was saying that only lack of bass is unlikely when the headphones are not driven properly (and should be damned well impossible given Creatip's planar magnetic example and his measurements there), and that people keep thinking driven well means good bass for some reason, maybe it is a linguistic thing. If your hearing is damaged it is important to say so in your reviews. A large amount of people watch reviews from mainstream Youtubers: LTT, you, Barnacules, etc and they get the wrong idea about audio. You guys have reached a large audience, congrats on that, but that comes with the burden to double-check your info more often.

 

If anything, I am the one not in the religion in this entire thread. Ironically LTT is the single most 'anti-audiophile-religion' audio subsection of any large forum I know of, including OCN, Headfi (lol), and the like. Maybe Logan's forum would do as well, I haven't been there in a while.

ANYWAYS, the point here is, you recommended an amp and a dac, I suggested sticking it to onboard and maybe trying EQ. I was suggesting the most ghetto solution possible. Not agreeing with you doesn't make this an audiophile religion. Or maybe you should explain what you mean by that in the first place.

[pas008]

gaming wise with headphones, I dont understand how people can suggest onboard unless you are using sbx/xfi mb3 software which uses sbx studios, but I havent had the oppurtunity to try the software with onboard

I want to be immersed by my gaming,

dolby, cmss, and yahama silent cinema do great job their positionals, but after having all these, sbx blows them all away, more accurate

razer's surround is better then onboard/realtek, but found myself getting confused on position many times with both

 

after hours of messing around wearing 558s/cals/q701/fischer clones/superlux681or688/panasonic htf600/few of my sons' "headsets" sbx was enough to have me purchase the zxr and make it external (3 cards inside)

 

edit:I did want to try to get that xfimb3 working with the odac/o2 or fiios but I have no motivation

[BoredErica]

Dolby is garbage. For saying it's great, I've ignored your entire post.

[pas008]

Dolby is garbage. For saying it's great, I've ignored your entire post.

sorry I am not a negative nancy like most of ltt's audio users,

[Recon97]

Now this topic is derailing again. Please don't respond to this topic anymore. I have received the solution and this is it.

And what people say about audiophile religion, let me make this clear. There are lots of picky people out there, just like me. Its not a sin to be an audiophile.It really disgusts me when Pro reviewer become some what rude.

[BoredErica]

sorry I am not a negative nancy like most of ltt's audio users,

It just sucks. So much.

 

Now this topic is derailing again. Please don't respond to this topic anymore. I have received the solution and this is it.

And what people say about audiophile religion, let me make this clear. There are lots of picky people out there, just like me. Its not a sin to be an audiophile.It really disgusts me when Pro reviewer become some what rude.

Being picky is one thing, but being delusional is another. EG: I can TOTALLY hear the difference between 320kbps mp3 and FLAC!, etc etc. Even then, labeling all people who look for mistakes in his videos as delusional is ridiculous. Derail more plz, now it doesn't even matter to you because you already got the answers you want, we're not hurting anybody.