Nvidia engages in combat with Samsung: Which will win, the Titan or the Dragon

[qwertywarrior]

there is always the chance that this could be a ploy, samsung has a lot of enemies and nvidia could be getting controlled by any number of companies behind the scenes, they would make for a nice scapegoat, the relationships between all these companies is dangerously close to the Hilter and Stalin relation, its never gonna end well.

if this doesnt go to court  and make a deal

 ull see a lot of tegra galaxies the future ......

[brownninja97]

if this doesnt go to court  and make a deal

 ull see a lot of tegra galaxies the future ......

not sure if thats a good or bad thing, time will tell.

[qwertywarrior]

not sure if thats a good or bad thing, time will tell.

tegra zone ftw..............

[Builder]

This is a software issue, nvidia has noticed some shaders and processing styles look crazy similar to their own, they are pissed about this, people are gonna die, the old op already has. Nvidia has everything on their side, they have the patents, they have the money and a pretty nice legal team, the cards are stacked up against Samsung.

Hmm, wonder where I've heard that before?

[brownninja97]

Hmm, wonder where I've heard that before?

im not sure what you are referencing but chances are that i said something stupid in the past.

[totjup5]

Yet another reason for me to dislike Samsung. I don't own any of their products for a reason.

[Rising]

Nvidia is trying to stock-pile money by suing Samsung so they can lower GPU prices to dirt cheap and thrash AMD in the future market!

 

JK don't hurt me   

 

Edit: Also for the title, MSI will always be the forever true dragon in my heart <3

[ijKs Snow]

Yet another reason for me to dislike Samsung. I don't own any of their products for a reason.

What is the reason? Because their devices are using Snapdragon S4, 400, 600, 800, 801, 805 or ARM's Mali or PowerVR GPU?

 

Like every other mobile devices that's been released in the past 3 years?

 

I'll wait for more news since right now it's basically one source from Nvidia and all the other outlets copy pasting each other the same information.

 

From what I can tell so far, I don't think Nvidia will win. It seems they will try to use Samsung as a stepping stone before they go after Apple, MS, Google, HTC, Sony, rest of Chinese vendors who has technically broken the same patents by using Qualcomm, ARM, or Imagination Technology chips.

[mvitkun]

@brownninja97

I think your post is better.

btw looking through Nvidia's complaint.....it looks really vague.

 

The Accused Products using these GPUs utilize various patented technologies covered

by the Asserted Patents, such as graphics processing on a single semiconductor platform,

multithreaded graphics processing, unified shader architectures, programmable graphics

processing, and early visibility testing in the graphics pipeline.

 

The Accused Products include graphics technologies in their processors that render images for a display screen.

 

I mean if they truly wanted to enforce these patents they'd say that anyone who makes a GPU has to pay them or get out.

[bogus]

If Adreno was brought in when Qualcomm bought ATI Imageon...or AMD Imageon, they also got all the IP right? Or is AMD Radeon paying licensing fees to NVIDIA?

Was this something they developed after they bought Imageon? I don't quite understand what's on the line here.

Edit: The user @Maban posted this on Tom's article:

 

"We are asking the ITC to block shipments of Samsung Galaxy mobile phones and tablets containing Qualcomm’s Adreno, ARM’s Mali or Imagination’s PowerVR graphics architectures." http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/09/04/nvidia-launches-patent-suits/

For those wondering the patents in question are:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6198488
http://www.google.com/patents/US6992667
http://www.google.com/patents/US7038685
http://www.google.com/patents/US7015913
http://www.google.com/patents/US6697063
http://www.google.com/patents/US7209140
http://www.google.com/patents/US6690372

"In particular, the Accused Products infringe claims 1, 19 and 20 of the ʼ488 Patent; claims 1-29 of the ʼ667 Patent; claims 1-5, 7-19, 21-23, 25-30, 34-36, 38, 41-43 of the ʼ685 Patent; claims 5-8, 10, 12-20 and 24-27 of the ʼ913 Patent; claims 7, 8, 11-13, 16-21, 23, 24, 28 and 29 of the ʼ063 Patent; claims 1-7, 8-10, 12 and 14 of the ʼ140 Patent; and claims 1-6, 9-16 and 19-25 of the ʼ372 Patent"
http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/imagelibrary/downloadmedia.ashx?MediaDetailsID=2996&SizeId=-1&SizeID=-1

[Murdoch]

At least Nvidia get how the patents system should work. If you use somebody else's tech + R&D you should pay them a licence fee. Finally a mature approach to the patent wars. Instead of the stupid, "we've patented a rectangle, nobody else gets to use rectangles" nonsense. 

 

"Our patented GPU inventions provide significant value to mobile devices. Samsung and Qualcomm have chosen to use these in their products without a license from us. We are asking the courts to determine infringement of NVIDIA's GPU patents by all graphics architectures used in Samsung's mobile products and to establish their licensing value."

 

Edit: dammit I spoke too soon, I missed this part... FFS NVIDIAAAA!!

 

NVIDIA is going so far as to ask the ITC to block shipments of Samsung Galaxy mobile phones and tablets containing Qualcomm’s ARM’s Mali, Adreno, or Imagination’s PowerVR graphics architecture. The company is also asking that the Delaware Court award damages to NVIDIA for patent infringement.

[jezza39]

Hmmmm, we all hated on Apple when they started this patent bullshit, so we should all be hating on NVidia for stirring up the same thing.

[spartaman64]

i dont understand why do people on this forum want samsung and qualcomm to die out? isnt that bad if there is no more qualcomm snapdragons on the market?

[Builder]

im not sure what you are referencing but chances are that i said something stupid in the past.

No, it just sounds a lot like what Apple did. The "we're gonna kill you for stealing our shit" attitude.

[NoobsWeStand]

I don't get it. Is Nvidia sueing Samsung/Qallcom a good thing, or a bad thing?

[dalekphalm]

I don't get it. Is Nvidia sueing Samsung/Qallcom a good thing, or a bad thing?

Depends on how you view the companies. The OP is definitely on the side of "good thing".

 

Assuming that:

1. They are guilty

2. They work out a licensing deal without blocking product shipments

 

Then I would agree, a good thing.

 

However, we don't know if they are even guilty. All news articles so far are sourcing an official NVidia announcement.

 

If NVidia succeeds in blocking shipment/sales of any devices, then that is BAD FOR CONSUMERS. People need to look to Microsoft for proper patent infringement suits. They settle with a reasonable license fee, rather then trying to destroy them.

[AHaskin14]

Software and coding patenting sounds like a very difficult profession to study

[dalekphalm]

Software and coding patenting sounds like a very difficult profession to study

It is quite tricky indeed, because two separate software developers can independently create code that does exactly the same thing. Does that mean that one copied the other? Of course not. Only if the code is basically cut and pasted, or is convincingly similar enough that it could have been reverse engineered, does it become patent infringement.

 

Many things in the IT world shouldn't even be patentable, but that's a totally different conversation.

[mr moose]

 

 

Many things in the IT world shouldn't even be patentable, but that's a totally different conversation.

Absolutely agree,  there are only so many ways to make interaction between people and devices  more efficient, if we restrict who can use these methods then we restrict industry growth, competition and by extension jobs and the economy.

[Hargreaves]

I'd want the OP to be my hype man lol.

 

One of a few topic introductions I've liked. 

[AHaskin14]

It is quite tricky indeed, because two separate software developers can independently create code that does exactly the same thing. Does that mean that one copied the other? Of course not. Only if the code is basically cut and pasted, or is convincingly similar enough that it could have been reverse engineered, does it become patent infringement.

 

Many things in the IT world shouldn't even be patentable, but that's a totally different conversation.

thanks for the more in depth analysis. I knew the basic theory as I posted but you cleared me up better. I suppose now the no life nerd who's parents always want him to get a job really can become a lawyer......with allot of effort.

[LAwLz]

It saddens me that the Samsung hate train cloud peoples' vision.

This is not Nvidia vs Samsung. This is Nvidia vs Samsung/HTC/LG/Sony/ARM/Qualcomm/Apple/Imagination.

Every single one I listed breaks Nvidia' patent if it is legit. It's just that they are going after Samsung because they got the deepest pockets (except Apple but they basically own the entire patent office).

Sorry Nvidia but even if you own a valid patent I think you are terrible for doing this. You shouldn't be able to have a patent to gives you a monopoly on GPUs.

[Nomelas]

You're talking a lot of sense here. I know Samsung does manufacture some ARM CPU's, but those are licensed designs. What about all the other ARM manufacturers besides Qualcomm? And this seems to be about the Snapdragon in particular. So you're right, what about EVERY OTHER ANDROID MANUFACTURER THAT USES SNAPDRAGON CPU's? Which is basically all of them. Most major phones use the Snapdragon lineup.

 

There's definitely more to the story here. But perhaps NVidia is just testing the waters, making sure they get a win on Samsung first, since then any further court battles would be a lot easier?

it's because they're bitter about their Tegra line not gaining traction in the mobile marketplace.

[Nomelas]

It saddens me that the Samsung hate train cloud peoples' vision.

This is not Nvidia vs Samsung. This is Nvidia vs Samsung/HTC/LG/Sony/ARM/Qualcomm/Apple/Imagination.

Every single one I listed breaks Nvidia' patent if it is legit. It's just that they are going after Samsung because they got the deepest pockets (except Apple but they basically own the entire patent office).

Sorry Nvidia but even if you own a valid patent I think you are terrible for doing this. You shouldn't be able to have a patent to gives you a monopoly on GPUs.

Sadly that's how patents work though.... If you patent something you own it and anyone that copies it needs to pay royalties to you. This works in most situations but the whole patent trolling has become ridiculously out of hand to the point where a new system needs to be created, specifically for the electronics market.

[silberdrachi]

Depends on how you view the companies. The OP is definitely on the side of "good thing".

 

Assuming that:

1. They are guilty

2. They work out a licensing deal without blocking product shipments

 

Then I would agree, a good thing.

 

However, we don't know if they are even guilty. All news articles so far are sourcing an official NVidia announcement.

 

If NVidia succeeds in blocking shipment/sales of any devices, then that is BAD FOR CONSUMERS. People need to look to Microsoft for proper patent infringement suits. They settle with a reasonable license fee, rather then trying to destroy them.

 

Im not even sure if they WERE guilty that it would be a good thing for the public, even if legally it was the right choice.

 

Its gotten to the point where i am convinced that nothing productive can come out of patient lawsuits. Blocking and disrupting sales, forcing companies to take on extra fees on items that they are already making very minor margins on....

 

And this kinda feels like nVidia is a bit butthurt that their k1 chip and the rest of their graphics cores are being tossed to the side because they just dont stand up. Now they are using the legal system to cry foul and force companies to acknowledge their chips again. (But this is bias talking, ill wait until i see legal briefs before i speak more on that)