Guns in the USA.

[Lyons]

Hasn't crime rate in Australia been increasing over the last few decades (edit: didn't meant decades, I meant years, and I found the picture after I typed that)? They may not have had any more mass shootings, but those are a very small percentage of actual firearm related homicides.

I live in Canada, a place where there is a fairly significant number of firearm related murders, and the gun regulations are extreme. You can't claim that gun regulations are the only reason that a country like Swizerland would have so few homocides. Plus, if you actually trust the US government, you're doing it wrong. They have been doing some shady things lately, and IIRC, they said that they were allowed to use drones on their own citizens if they were terrorists.

 

Crime rate =/= gun related homicides. Homicides are essentially what I was referring to, and are of main concern. The problem is people are DYING because of guns. Mass shooting are just a bigger deal and are more published because there are multiple deaths. Regardless of what anyone says, you really don't need a gun unless it's for recreational use like hunting or target shooting. Don't trust your government? LEAVE. Why on earth would anybody want to live in a country where they don't trust there government?

 

I hope people actually watch the videos I posted.

 

We don't trust our government. They lie they tap or phones and they do illegal IRS audits. And our president can't prove he was even born here. Now he says he has the say so to use drone strikes on American citizens if he feels they are a terrorist. We keep our guns incase we need them for all enemies foreign and domestic...

 

If you believe all of this then why do you put up with it? Also, 'keeping guns to defend against people with guns' doesn't seem very logical. You have the world's most powerful army. Why do you think it is the citizen's responsibility to defend the nation? You pay taxes (well YOU may not) so your army can exist.

[Art Vandelay]

If you believe all of this then why do you put up with it? Also, 'keeping guns to defend against people with guns' doesn't seem very logical. You have the world's most powerful army. Why do you think it is the citizen's responsibility to defend the nation? You pay taxes (well YOU may not) so your army can exist.

I don't trust the government, but it's not at the point where they are becoming a military dictatorship. When that happens, the guns will be very useful.

 

Citizens should not be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their citizens. It makes sure that the government can't do things that are blatantly against the will of the people.

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

The UK has a worse violent crime rate then the US.So taking guns away didn't help there..Did you not see the guy running around with a hatchet killing a guy in London for 20 min before help showed up..And everyone just watched..Look at Chicago where they banned guns and crime skyrocketed..But yet states where you can legally carry a gun on your hip has the lowest crimes of any other states..

  No matter what criminals will get guns but why take them away from law abiding citizens..

How long did it take you to regurgitate the exact same argument everybody else has?

 

I wonder who said/wrote it first?

[Lyons]

I don't trust the government, but it's not at the point where they are becoming a military dictatorship. When that happens, the guns will be very useful.

 

Citizens should not be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their citizens. It makes sure that the government can't do things that are blatantly against the will of the people.

 

Well, I don't think it will ever get to the point. We're not in medieval times or anything, this is the 21st century, American citizens will never need guns to defend against any government, be it their own or another county's. If you want to fight governments, join the army and actually do your country some service (arguably).

[Glenwing]

The people who ignore the laws against murder probably aren't going to be bothered about a law against owning guns either.

[ajoy39]

The people who ignore the laws against murder probably aren't going to be bothered about a law against owning guns either.

No they aren't, but if there aren't any guns available for them to use it's irrelevant rather they want to follow those laws or not. 

[Lyons]

The people who ignore the laws against murder probably aren't going to be bothered about a law against owning guns either.

 

How many more people do you think would be doing illicit drugs if they weren't illegal? The point is to reduce, not eliminate. Elimination is not achievable.

[OneGun]

I don't trust the government, but it's not at the point where they are becoming a military dictatorship. When that happens, the guns will be very useful.

 

Citizens should not be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their citizens. It makes sure that the government can't do things that are blatantly against the will of the people.

I agree 100 percent..

[ajoy39]

How many more people do you think would be doing illicit drugs if they weren't illegal? The point is to reduce, not eliminate. Elimination is not achievable.

Gun control is more effective than drug control as, currently at least, you don't grow a gun in your basement. This may change eventually but right now 3D printing is not practical for the masses 

[Art Vandelay]

Well, I don't think it will ever get to the point. We're not in medieval times or anything, this is the 21st century, American citizens will never need guns to defend against any government, be it their own or another county's. 

You haven't read the National Defense Authorization Act, then. It basically gives the government the power to indefinitely detain citizens if they feel like it. If the citizens have guns, then the government can never turn against them. It may not be realistic, but are you really going to put your complete faith into the police, whom have abused protesters many times in the last few years, and the government, which has admitted to torturing prisoners to get information on terrorists?

 

 

 

How many more people do you think would be doing illicit drugs if they weren't illegal? The point is to reduce, not eliminate. Elimination is not achievable.

How many people wouldn't have died if they had been doing federally regulated drugs, instead of the garbage that's out on the streets? This is just going to make things worse for the people who need to defend themselves. How many people out there that are arguing for gun control live in a neighborhood where they need to keep guns for their own safety?

 

Gun control is more effective than drug control as, currently at least, you don't grow a gun in your basement. This may change eventually but right now 3D printing is not practical for the masses 

A lot of drugs are still smuggled over the border. Also, 3D printing is pretty much worthless for making guns, since CNCs have been able to do it for years, and a lot faster than 3D printers can do it.

[Elbstrand]

Gun control is more effective than drug control as, currently at least, you don't grow a gun in your basement. This may change eventually but right now 3D printing is not practical for the masses 

 

You probably don't grow heroin, kokain or crystal meth in your basement either. Just sayin. :D

[ajoy39]

You probably don't grow heroin, kokain or crystal meth in your basement either. Just sayin. :D

you can make crystel meth from from common medicines and house products, thats why (at least in NY) you can only buy one box of claritin a month. one of the ingredients in is a main part of meth. Heroin and cocaine you're right but that's why they are much more rare than meth and marijuana.

[ajoy39]

You haven't read the National Defense Authorization Act, then. It basically gives the government the power to indefinitely detain citizens if they feel like it. If the citizens have guns, then the government can never turn against them. It may not be realistic, but are you really going to put your complete faith into the police, whom have abused protesters many times in the last few years, and the government, which has admitted to torturing prisoners to get information on terrorists?

 

 

 

How many people wouldn't have died if they had been doing federally regulated drugs, instead of the garbage that's out on the streets? This is just going to make things worse for the people who need to defend themselves. How many people out there that are arguing for gun control live in a neighborhood where they need to keep guns for their own safety?

 

 

 

A lot of drugs are still smuggled over the border. Also, 3D printing is pretty much worthless for making guns, since CNCs have been able to do it for years, and a lot faster than 3D printers can do it.

right, but a CNC machine is expensive as shit and the average american, especially average american criminal, cant afford that. Guns are smuggled over the border but the supply would be far less than it is now. 

[Elbstrand]

you can make crystel meth from from common medicines and house products, thats why (at least in NY) you can only buy one box of claritin a month. one of the ingredients in is a main part of meth. Heroin and cocaine you're right but that's why they are much more rare than meth and marijuana.

 

Well if you have the time to learn how to cook up some decent meth (without killing yourself in the process), you probably could learn how to build something that fires bullets at people in the same amount of time don't you think? ;)

[ajoy39]

Well if you have the time to learn how to cook up some decent meth (without killing yourself in the process), you probably could learn how to build something that fires bullets at people in the same amount of time don't you think? ;)

Not really, if you want to build a reliable gun you need some pretty expensive equipment. I'm not gonna post the process of how to make meth but all of the stuff to make it is pretty easy to get access to and relatively cheap. 

[Elbstrand]

Not really, if you want to build a reliable gun you need some pretty expensive equipment. I'm not gonna post the process of how to make meth but all of the stuff to make it is pretty easy to get access to and relatively cheap. 

 

I think we are both grasping at straws here, but what do you call a "reliable" gun? If you know how to aim one bullet should be enough for someone to drop dead. And while we are at it, you might aswell just cook up a bomb instead of meth, thats even easier. :P

[ajoy39]

I think we are both grasping at straws here, but what do you call a "reliable" gun? If you know how to aim one bullet should be enough for someone to drop dead. And while we are at it, you might aswell just cook up a bomb instead of meth, thats even easier. :P

I would consider a reliable gun to be one that will hit the target and not blow up in your hands. most homemade guns cannot fire a bullet without injuring the person shooting it, and are very erratic. 

[Lyons]

I agree 100 percent..

 

Can you, in complete honesty, say that you think you will need to defend your home, family, and other citizens against the US government?

[Elbstrand]

Can you, in complete honesty, say that you think you will need to defend your home, family, and other citizens against the US government?

 

Don't answer! Thats a trick question, if you say yes a black van will pull up to your home any second :P

 

 

 

 

PS. Don't take me seriously i just like to lighten up the argument a little :D

[Art Vandelay]

right, but a CNC machine is expensive as shit and the average american, especially average american criminal, cant afford that. Guns are smuggled over the border but the supply would be far less than it is now. 

It's like $10000 to buy a 3d printer, and printing things is actually a very expensive process. CNCs aren't that much more expensive than 3D printers

 

Well if you have the time to learn how to cook up some decent meth (without killing yourself in the process), you probably could learn how to build something that fires bullets at people in the same amount of time don't you think? ;)

Well, shake and bake isn't that hard, and the change of getting 3rd degree burns all over your body isn't too high.

 

Can you, in complete honesty, say that you think you will need to defend your home, family, and other citizens against the US government?

Well, I believe in the theory that when a government has a complete power over its people, it's not a good thing. I don't forsee people in the US having to fight their government, but I certainly don't trust the things the government is doing.

[ajoy39]

It's like $10000 to buy a 3d printer, and printing things is actually a very expensive process. CNCs aren't that much more expensive than 3D printers

this is what i'm saying though, you can't build a gun in your basement anywhere as easily as you can grow pot or cook meth. If you're intending to commit murder you're not buying a $10k machine to make a gun for you. 

[Elbstrand]

Well, shake and bake isn't that hard, and the change of getting 3rd degree burns all over your body isn't too high.

 

Now i know how people on the forums can afford all those awesome pieces of hardware for their PCs :D

[OneGun]

you can make crystel meth from from common medicines and house products, thats why (at least in NY) you can only buy one box of claritin a month. one of the ingredients in is a main part of meth. Heroin and cocaine you're right but that's why they are much more rare than meth and marijuana.

Its not claritin its sudafed lmao...At least know what you are talking about before you speak... :P

[Art Vandelay]

this is what i'm saying though, you can't build a gun in your basement anywhere as easily as you can grow pot or cook meth. If you're intending to commit murder you're not buying a $10k machine to make a gun for you. 

That may be true, but a significant amount of the drugs in the US are smuggled in.

 

Now i know how people on the forums can afford all those awesome pieces of hardware for their PCs :D

Hey man, you gotta do some dirty work to afford a used GTX 480, these days.

[Elbstrand]

Its not claritin its sudafed lmao...At least know what you are talking about before you speak... :P

 

P2P Cook all the way, you people should watch more breaking bad :P