THE APPLE DILEMMA

[Sauron]

At the moment U can get a similar experience with something like a motoE on the UX side but not all apps are designed to run buttery smooth on lower end hardware. Optimization is key and it seems to be something Android is lacking due to the open support for any ARM based hardware there is no specific optimization for each type of hardware.

 

The huaweii I had in mind has a quad core and 1gb of ram. Maybe it's not the highest end android phone on the planet, but for web browsing, watching youtube and facebook it's plenty.

[snes]

Apple devices are not worth the money for a consumer. You and I have no benefit whatsoever from getting an Apple computer, in fact we are just spending more money for no reason if we do. They justify this with industrial design and fancy brandings like "retina" which only widen the gap between standard technology and their proprietary one (the iPhone's "retina" screen fits no standard ever and suffers from scaling in movies), but ultimately the bottom line is that you're paying way more for no reason. Maybe it IS more expensive for them to produce these pcs, but to the costumer that makes no difference and if the others can present compelling prices, maybe Apple should fall in line and try to push better value instead of constantly trying to justify absurd pricings.

 

So you'd rather drive a Skoda Fabia even if you could afford a VW Golf or an Audi A3?

 

You can build a 600$ pc including a good monitor with the same horsepower as a 1100$ mac.

 

If you have enough money to buy a mac, I strongly advise you get a custom built pc for that money instead. You can get something that is sometimes up to twice as powerful for the same money if not less. So please, don't buy a mac unless you are a creative professional who absolutely needs a certain program that works better on mac os.

 

I call BS. $600 won't buy you a halfway decent PC with a "good monitor" and even if you could pull it off, it would probably look craptastic. Also, don't forget that a Mac will come with a copy of their latest OS, a keyboard and a magic mouse. Free shipping, too.

 

I'm not a Mac user. I built my own PC that is running Windows 7 Pro.

 

Am I the only one that is sick of all the Apple threads?.... 

 

No. You're not alone.

[Sauron]

So you'd rather drive a Skoda Fabia even if you could afford a VW Golf or an Audi A3?

I call BS. $600 won't buy you a halfway decent PC with a "good monitor" and even if you could pull it off, it would probably look craptastic. Also, don't forget that a Mac will come with a copy of their latest OS, a keyboard and a magic mouse. Free shipping, too.

 

I'm not a Mac user. I built my own PC that is running Windows 7 Pro.

 

You can call bs all you want. Show me any imac, and I'll show you a build that does the same thing for about half the price, maybe a little more depending on the actual model. As for the looks, since when have those become worth 500$ over 1100$? And by the way there are multiple threads on this forum where people, me included, posted mac killer builds for about half the price of the imac, so there's no doubtwhatsoever that it's more than possible.

 

The Golf actually makes a difference to the user experience. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how much apple is paying to produce an ultraslim imac, to the end user it makes exactly 0 difference for use.

[MrSuperb]

You can call bs all you want. Show me any imac, and I'll show you a build that does the same thing for about half the price, maybe a little more depending on the actual model.

 

Take any iMac and show us an equivalent PC, as in also an AIO with similar features for half the price.

 

 

Then show us a $900 build including a high quality 27" 1440p monitor a quality bluethooth keyboard and mice.

[Sauron]

Take any iMac and show us an equivalent PC, as in also an AIO with similar features for half the price.

 

 

Then show us a $900 build including a high quality 27" 1440p monitor a quality bluethooth keyboard and mice.

 

Wait a minute, which mac exactly comes with a high quality 1440p 27" monitor, keyboard and mouse for 900$? And it's easy enyway, take any 27" good 1440p monitor and use the money left for a build. Unless you give me more precise specs, what's the issue?

 

As for it being an AIO, whenever asked I always say that AIOs are a bad idea. This is not just on apple's part of course, ANY aio is plain not worth the money in my opinion. If having an AIO is worth spending twice as much for you, it's your choice, and I have nothing to argue on that save that you really shouldn't want to.

 

Here's an imac for 1100$: http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/imac?product=MF883LL/A&step=config

 

Here's the pc: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/m8Fvqs

 

This pc has a faster cpu, a faster gpu, a bigger monitor and a bigger hard drive. And it's about 500$ cheaper. I could have spared more on the case, but I specifically looked for one that wouldn't look terrible under your monitor so the space counterargument is dealt with.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

You can call bs all you want. Show me any imac, and I'll show you a build that does the same thing for about half the price, maybe a little more depending on the actual model. As for the looks, since when have those become worth 500$ over 1100$? And by the way there are multiple threads on this forum where people, me included, posted mac killer builds for about half the price of the imac, so there's no doubtwhatsoever that it's more than possible.

 

The Golf actually makes a difference to the user experience. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how much apple is paying to produce an ultraslim imac, to the end user it makes exactly 0 difference for use.

 

Take any iMac and show us an equivalent PC, as in also an AIO with similar features for half the price.

 

 

Then show us a $900 build including a high quality 27" 1440p monitor a quality bluethooth keyboard and mice.

 

This. You simply can't compare an iMac and a regular desktop PC, they're not the same thing in any shape or form. This makes a huge difference for the end user experience. No big ugly clunky box, next to no cables and what probably is the most beautiful monitor the world has yet seen. The thing is, Apple makes products that no one else does, and to some of us this matter. I bought a 15" MacBook Pro Retina 2 years ago. At the time I was questioning whether I should buy that or the top end Lenovo at the time (I believe it was the W530). Configured to my likings they had about the same performance (only difference being that the W530 ran a Quadro GPU and the MacBook runs a GT650M). Now, the W530 was more expensive, bigger, heavier and had a much worse screen while the rMBP had the same power in a much slimmer (and dare I say more beautiful) package with battery life that blew the Lenovo straight out of the water. Now of course you can argue that I could've bought a much cheaper Acer with about the same specs, but the fact is that I've had enough terrible experiences with pretty much every low end Laptop manufacturer on the planet that I've come to the conclusion that it's either Lenovo or Apple.

 

Now the world has finally caught up when it comes to screen resolutions, but there's still a looooooong way before anyone matches the rMBP performance -> package size -> battery life.

 

And you seriously can't compare a shitty $200 budget ASUS 23" screen to the absolutely magnificent screen that is the Apple Cinema display. 

[Phillyphries]

When I look at Apple products and look at their consumer base, you notice a few things.

 

1.) Their products just flat out work 100% as they were made to. Unlike buying notebooks from some other PC manufacturers, very rarely do hear about Macbooks having overheating problems, bad screens, etc. They are just well thought out and excellently designed products.

 

2.) Most people who buy Apple products regularly aren't going to know that you can build or buy a PC that's cheaper and variably faster. Most importantly, some don't care at all. People don't buy Macs to play the new "Crisis" or whatever resource intense game is popular.

 

3.) When you buy a Mac, you have the ability right off the bat to have full native Mac OS support + if you wanted, you could install and run windows and it would still work perfectly.

 

4.) Apple product consumers get great service from Apple because Apple owns stores, and hires workers that are or at least should be knowledgeable enough to help their customers on the spot. With other manufacturers, you simply don't get that same support. You often will have to talk to the retailer and check your warranties etc.. and most of the time you're still stuck having to ship the unit back to the manufacturer anyway. Apple = A lot less hassle 

 

That being said, I'm not even a Apple fanboi. Not even the slightest LOL. Every computer in the house is running Windows 8.1, never owned an apple product in my life. Not even an iPhone. Windows Phone is where it's at

[MrSuperb]

Wait a minute, which mac exactly comes with a high quality 1440p 27" monitor, keyboard and mouse for 900$? And it's easy enyway, take any 27" good 1440p monitor and use the money left for a build. Unless you give me more precise specs, what's the issue?

 

I quote you "Show me any imac, and I'll show you a build that does the same thing for about half the price"

$1800 / 2 = $900

 

 

As for it being an AIO, whenever asked I always say that AIOs are a bad idea. This is not just on apple's part of course, ANY aio is plain not worth the money in my opinion. If having an AIO is worth spending twice as much for you, it's your choice, and I have nothing to argue on that save that you really shouldn't want to.

 

You think it is a bad idea, not everybody thinks that way though.

 

 

Here's an imac for 1100$: http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/imac?product=MF883LL/A&step=config

 

Here's the pc: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/m8Fvqs

 

Oh nice, so you ignore the OS, the Wireless card, the Thunderbolt connectors, the keyboard, the mouse AND you choose a crappy psu and an ugly case and call it a day.

[mr moose]

Oh nice, so you ignore the OS, the Wireless card, the Thunderbolt connectors, the keyboard, the mouse AND you choose a crappy psu and an ugly case and call it a day.

 

Even if you include a decent Bluetooth keyboard/mouse, OS and put a decent quadcore I5 in it'd still be cheaper.

 

So it's o.k for you to have a subjective opinion about the case but not sauron about AIO's?

[MrSuperb]

Even if you include a decent Bluetooth keyboard/mouse, OS and put a decent quadcore I5 in it'd still be cheaper.

 really? By how much? How about adding another $100 for assembly?

[Sauron]

I quote you "Show me any imac, and I'll show you a build that does the same thing for about half the price"

$1800 / 2 = $900

 

Oh now I understand. You have to tell me which iMac you're referring to though.

[MrSuperb]

Oh now I understand. You have to tell me which iMac you're referring to though.

 

really? The one for $1800 I'd guess (and don't forget the things I mentioed above)...

[mr moose]

 really? By how much? How about adding another $100 for assembly?

given that the OS, keyboard/mouse are under $100 each and the unnecessary CPU upgrade would be less than $200 more it'd be fair to say the whole unit would still cost 200 less,  add 100 for assembly if you want and it's still cheaper and faster.

[snes]

The Golf actually makes a difference to the user experience.

 

Nope, it doesn't. The Skoda will get you from point A to point B. You don't need a fancy looking Golf for that. And it's the same chassis that they are using. Just like the Intel chips.

 

Also, I don't need to show you a Mac. There are pictures on Apple.com, if you don't know what they look like. You are the one who said that he could build a Mac killer for $600 (including a "good monitor"!), so you are the one who has to prove it. And yes, looks and build quality DO matter. If you want to build a Mac killer, then you can't just focus on specs. No one wants a PC in a cardboard box and no one want to use a $15 keyboard and mouse set just so you can stay within that tight budget.

[Sauron]

Oh nice, so you ignore the OS, the Wireless card, the Thunderbolt connectors, the keyboard, the mouse AND you choose a crappy psu and an ugly case and call it a day.

 

LOL that psu is even overkill for that build. Again, if looks are more important to you that value, it's your choice. You're nitpicking to find excuses for the imac. There should be REASONS to buy one, not excuses. I can get keyboard+mouse for 25 bucks total, it's not like the default apple ones are even half decent. That case is acutally much more expensive than it needs to be. If you don't like it, get  30$ one, it will do the job just as well and ugly for ugly... the os? ubuntu, argument void. Thunderbolt? Tell me one application for which you would use thinderbolt on that imac. There are no external drives that use it fully, there are no monitors except Apple ones that use it (and they cost 1000 bucks on their own), if you want an external graphics card you could just get it internal in my build and still have it be cheaper than an imac with no dedicated graphics. wireless card? 15 bucks. If you absolutely can't live without thunderbolt, there are expansion cards, but again they're basically useless at the moment and more expensive than they need to be. Overall adding wifi and k+b while getting a cheaper case would actually cost less.

[Sauron]

Nope, it doesn't. The Skoda will get you from point A to point B. You don't need a fancy looking Golf for that. And it's the same chassis that they are using. Just like the Intel chips.

 

Also, I don't need to show you a Mac. There are pictures on Apple.com, if you don't know what they look like. You are the one who said that he could build a Mac killer for $600 (including a "good monitor"!), so you are the one who has to prove it. And yes, looks and build quality DO matter. If you want to build a Mac killer, then you can't just focus on specs. No one wants a PC in a cardboard box and no one want to use a $15 keyboard and mouse set just so you can stay within that tight budget.

I showed a build. That case is as solid as any imac will ever be, in fact if you drop it it won't break whereas an imac will. The default k+b apple provides are absolutely terrible quality, I can get the same experience from a 20 bucks keyboard easily.

[mr moose]

Nope, it doesn't. The Skoda will get you from point A to point B. You don't need a fancy looking Golf for that. And it's the same chassis that they are using. Just like the Intel chips.

 

Also, I don't need to show you a Mac. There are pictures on Apple.com, if you don't know what they look like. You are the one who said that he could build a Mac killer for $600 (including a "good monitor"!), so you are the one who has to prove it. And yes, looks and build quality DO matter. If you want to build a Mac killer, then you can't just focus on specs. No one wants a PC in a cardboard box and no one want to use a $15 keyboard and mouse set just so you can stay within that tight budget.

 

Not to nit pick but this whole build quility thing is a bit of misnomer,  for example:

 

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/apple-forced-to-adopt-new-refund-policy-under-australian-consumer-law-20131218-2zkkr.html

 

How many people had to have faults and issues before the ACCC would investigate?  (a lot I can assure you they don't get of their arse for handful of complaints) 

 

Apple are just like any other pc builder, nothing special just another option.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

I showed a build. That case is as solid as any imac will ever be, in fact if you drop it it won't break whereas an imac will. The default k+b apple provides are absolutely terrible quality, I can get the same experience from a 20 bucks keyboard easily.

 

It's still not an AIO and in fact is pretty damn ugly. Also please do tell me a single use scenario that includes you dropping your desktop computer because I sure as hell can't think of one. As I said before you're also exchanging a top of the line (seriously top of the line) display for a shitty budet panel. Please come again.

[Sauron]

I quote you "Show me any imac, and I'll show you a build that does the same thing for about half the price"

$1800 / 2 = $900

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/xmPwkL

It's a bit more than half the price, but if you hadn't cut my statement you'd know I said "or little more". Now I'm not going to make a build for every imac you can think of, I already showed you two, I'm pretty sure you can make some yourself if you open your mind a bit.

[ShadowCaptain]

. Thunderbolt? Tell me one application for which you would use thinderbolt on that imac. 

 

If you are asking then you have never shot 4k video. Thunderbolt is a necessity for myself, selling my gaming laptop for a 15" retina for this exact reason (as well as for specific apple editing software)

 

Also don't forget to include, photo editing, video editing and music editing software with your build. As well as a decent office program that syncs across all devices and i fully compatible with microsoft office documents.

 

They also all include very good wifi and bluetooth cards. High quality wireless keyboards and mice too, oh and a really good quality webcam! You cant forget that either

 

Seriously though, you can beat a mac on  paper any day but not by that much but im afraid the apple experience is alot more than my i5 beats your i5. To many people an extra 300$ is not that much considering how long macs tend to last peope who are not hardcore gamers. Their support training and warranty are second to none also, no dicking around with RMAs

 

If OSX had game support as good as windows and allowed upgradable graphics cards in their chassis, I would never touch windows/ubuntu again

 

 

These threads are pointless, the blind will never convince the blind to see the other side of the fence

[SerMejong]

Well beauty comes with a price. 

[Sauron]

Nope, it doesn't. The Skoda will get you from point A to point B. You don't need a fancy looking Golf for that. And it's the same chassis that they are using. Just like the Intel chips.

 

Also, I don't need to show you a Mac. There are pictures on Apple.com, if you don't know what they look like. You are the one who said that he could build a Mac killer for $600 (including a "good monitor"!), so you are the one who has to prove it. And yes, looks and build quality DO matter. If you want to build a Mac killer, then you can't just focus on specs. No one wants a PC in a cardboard box and no one want to use a $15 keyboard and mouse set just so you can stay within that tight budget.

 

@mr moose answered you already.

 

 

It's still not an AIO and in fact is pretty damn ugly. Also please do tell me a single use scenario that includes you dropping your desktop computer because I sure as hell can't think of one. As I said before you're also exchanging a top of the line (seriously top of the line) display for a shitty budet panel. Please come again.

 

I never said you should drop it, I'm just saying the build quality argument is invalid. That pc is more solidly built than any imac. I said this twice already, I don't care how much THEY pay to produce that panel or if they use an inefficient construction process (oh boy they do), as a consumer you shouldn't care what a company has to pay, you only care for what the difference to YOU is, and in this case the difference is in pure looks. I also said that if looks are so important to you you'd pay twice for them, it's your choice, but i think it's wasted money. You need a REASON to buy a product over another, not an EXCUSE for why it's so much more expensive.

 

If you think that's a s****y buget panel, you don't know what you're talking about. It's a 23" 1080p ips for 200$, chances are it's even better than the one in the 21.5" imac.

[Sauron]

If you are asking then you have never shot 4k video. Thunderbolt is a necessity for myself, selling my gaming laptop for a 15" retina for this exact reason (as well as for specific apple editing software)

 

Also don't forget to include, photo editing, video editing and music editing software with your build. As well as a decent office program that syncs across all devices and i fully compatible with microsoft office documents.

 

They also all include very good wifi and bluetooth cards. High quality wireless keyboards and mice too, oh and a really good quality webcam! You cant forget that either

 

Seriously though, you can beat a mac on  paper any day but not by that much but im afraid the apple experience is alot more than my i5 beats your i5. To many people an extra 300$ is not that much considering how long macs tend to last peope who are not hardcore gamers. Their support training and warranty are second to none also, no dicking around with RMAs

 

If OSX had game support as good as windows and allowed upgradable graphics cards in their chassis, I would never touch windows/ubuntu again

 

 

These threads are pointless, the blind will never convince the blind to see the other side of the fence

 

All right, would you buy a low power dual core with no dedicated graphics for video editing? I was referring to that imac in particular. As the price goes up, it gets easier and easier to fit a pcie thunderbolt expansion card into that "about half the price" budget. We're not talking 300$ here, we're talking 500$ at the very least. The gap only gets wider with higher tier imacs. The included mouse and keyboard are equivalent to 20$ peripherals you can find anywhere, sorry to tell you (not that I have anything against that, but saying they are really good quality is a big stretch). As for the webcam, if you really need one you can afford to dump 80$ more into one when you're still sparing 400+ bucks... As for how long they last, I still have a pentium 4 pc lying around, hasn't missed a beat in more than 10 years. Imacs from 10 years ago aren't even supported by apple anymore and have prety much HAD to be changed due to the powerpc architecture. I don't know where you got your data from, but it's wrong. For the office program, libreoffice will do that for you just fine if not better than ms office. As for video and photo editing, there are great free programs for that too. No professional will stick with the stock apple programs anyway, so in both cases if you want the best you need to pay the same.

 

That last sentence is funny, I feel the same way when talking to people who defend imacs.

[Sauron]

 really? By how much? How about adding another $100 for assembly?

 

ncix does it for 50 bucks. and to be honest even my grandma could build a pc with some instructions (which you can find online in a few minutes).

[Hans Christian | Teri]

@mr moose answered you already.

 

 

 

I never said you should drop it, I'm just saying the build quality argument is invalid. That pc is more solidly built than any imac. I said this twice already, I don't care how much THEY pay to produce that panel or if they use an inefficient construction process (oh boy they do), as a consumer you shouldn't care what a company has to pay, you only care for what the difference to YOU is, and in this case the difference is in pure looks. I also said that if looks are so important to you you'd pay twice for them, it's your choice, but i think it's wasted money. You need a REASON to buy a product over another, not an EXCUSE for why it's so much more expensive.

 

If you think that's a s****y buget panel, you don't know what you're talking about. It's a 23" 1080p ips for 200$, chances are it's even better than the one in the 21.5" imac.

 

It's a good screen for $200 yes, but it just doesn't compare in any way. It may seem the same to a gamer but trust me when you start working with photography, videography and similar creative fields it just isn't. I can see how this can be hard for you to understand but that's the way it is.

 

Being AIO is not an excuse for why it's more expensive, that's very much a reason to buy it. It's a much more simple setup that is so much less inconvenient than having a separate PC. It's not for everyone no, but for the people who buy the iMac that is very much their number one concern. Again it can be hard for people like you to understand because you're so ignorant and can't see logic in any other ways than your own, but ask anyone who would actually buy an iMac whether they would rather pay half and have to have a box next to their screen. I will guarantee you almost every single one of them would say hell no.