THE APPLE DILEMMA

[79wjd]

Oh come on, no it doesn't. The 1100$ model doesn't even have an ssd, meaning a pentium with an ssd would perform better. Maybe it "feels" a bit faster than it actually is (and I don't believe so), but when running heavy programs (or pretty much any program to be honest) a desktop i7 atomizes that silly low power laptop dual core.

I never said it compared directly with an $1100 pc, just that it runs better than a pc with the same specs--i.e. you can't compare $-value 1:1 between macs and pcs since a mac with those specs will run better than a pc with those specs--making the mac "worth" a bit more than the windows one with the same specs. 

[Graystripe]

It depends on the type of user you are.

 

Power users who want every single bit of control over their hardware probably aren't going to like the pre-soldered components and proprietary screws. But for those who can manage with their pre-configured RAM for a few years can slap on a Linux distro (or deal with OS X). Personally, I'm running tri-booted with OS X, Linux and Windows.

 

Casual users will defiantly benefit from the ease-of-use and customer support. 

 

Using Windows nowadays is so painful, especially with the DPI scaling issues on my rMBP. Mac OS X is much more fluid in my opinion. 

 

The hardware is much nicer, and defiantly worth the price in my opinion. Yes, you can build a cheaper machine and whatever, but it 'just works', as they say. I'm a sucker for design over feature, especially if i'm using the product in question for hours every day, but the Mac is a great compromise of power, reliability, and design.

 

If you can pay, it's a great choice. And after all - it's all about preference. 

[Sauron]

I never said it compared directly with an $1100 pc, just that it runs better than a pc with the same specs--i.e. you can't compare $-value 1:1 between macs and pcs since a mac with those specs will run better than a pc with those specs--making the mac "worth" a bit more than the windows one with the same specs. 

 

A BIT, not 500$ (that's the difference in price with an equivalent if not a bit better pc build).

[79wjd]

A BIT, not 500$ (that's the difference in price with an equivalent if not a bit better pc build).

Again, still not comparing it to an $1100 pc. never have, never did, never would.

[Sauron]

Yes, you can build a cheaper machine and whatever, but it 'just works', as they say. 

 

A 400$ pentium laptop "just works" too. It works even if you pay 1000$ for it, doesn't mean it makes sense to pay that much. It's not even a matter of if you have enough money or not, because with that money you could build a kickass workstation instead.

[79wjd]

A 400$ pentium laptop "just works" too. 

I'd really suggest using a Mac for an extended period. Its a much better user experience--assuming everything you need is supported. 

[SanJoseSharks]

People give me shit for having the mother of all 17" in my MBP and spending so much, said people fail to realize that once you cross into a certain set of specs you're paying out the ass anyways. AT the time, a 1200p, 17", dual bay capable laptop made from aluminum cost roughly the same no matter where you got it from. 

 

I've had this 4 years now, swapped out the RAM once and HDD to SSD once. Worth it? Absofuckinglutely. This is a quad core beast that can let me edit on the go and not lose a step in productivity. Worth all the $$$$ in the world to me. Might not be worth it to you, but that doesn't invalidate either sides opinion; so people need to stop acting like one side is better than the other when it comes to this kind of stuff. 

Do you think it would be better to go with a 17 inch (older) macbook pro and just upgrade the ram and HDD or go with a newer 13 inch macbook pro?

[Victorious Secret]

Do you think it would be better to go with a 17 inch (older) macbook pro and just upgrade the ram and HDD or go with a newer 13 inch macbook pro?

I like the older because I'm now sitting at 2 TB of SSD storage and 16gb of ram.

New 13s are too closed up, and you get a weak GPU.

At least my 6770m has some rendering grunt behind it.

[Sauron]

Again, still not comparing it to an $1100 pc. never have, never did, never would.

 

I think we're misunderstanding each other- my point is that even if macs perform a bit better than a pc with the same hardware, they are not worth paying almost twice as much for. I thought you were defending that price, but now that I think about it I might have misunderstood. Are you saying it's a bit better than a pc with the same hardware, or that it is worth the money it costs compared to a pc with the same hardware? If it's the first one, then I agree and we can leave it at that.

[SanJoseSharks]

I like the older because I'm now sitting at 2 TB of SSD storage and 16gb of ram.

New 13s are too closed up, and you get a weak GPU.

At least my 6770m has some rendering grunt behind it

Thanks for the reply, I'm looking at one on amazon its only 1200 dollars which is actually cheaper than the 13 inch new one. Is this the one you're talking about?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MacBook-MD311LL-17-Inch-Laptop/dp/B005CWJ76O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404166409&sr=8-1&keywords=17+macbook+pro

[Victorious Secret]

Thanks for the reply, I'm looking at one on amazon its only 1200 dollars which is actually cheaper than the 13 inch new one. Is this the one you're talking about?

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MacBook-MD311LL-17-Inch-Laptop/dp/B005CWJ76O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404166409&sr=8-1&keywords=17+macbook+pro

Yup

For 1200 that's just a steal for what you're getting and how long it will last.

One downside is heat output. This sucker runs hot under load. But in all this time of Lightroom and Photoshop it has never quit or thrown up error displays or what have you. And it's been boot camped nearly half its life without major screw ups.

[SanJoseSharks]

Yup

For 1200 that's just a steal for what you're getting and how long it will last.

One downside is heat output. This sucker runs hot under load. But in all this time of Lightroom and Photoshop it has never quit or thrown up error displays or what have you. And it's been boot camped nearly half its life without major screw ups.

Im kind of worried about the processor tho, I know its an i7 but isnt it like 3 year old technology? Isn't becoming obsolete and underpowered for modern day applications? How does it handle your workload, I'm not a designer or anything just a sciences student I just want to make sure I'm not buying a turtle of a CPU. Other than that I won't really mind the lack of retina and I can easily upgrade the ram and storage.

[79wjd]

I think we're misunderstanding each other- my point is that even if macs perform a bit better than a pc with the same hardware, they are not worth paying almost twice as much for. I thought you were defending that price, but now that I think about it I might have misunderstood. Are you saying it's a bit better than a pc with the same hardware, or that it is worth the money it costs compared to a pc with the same hardware? If it's the first one, then I agree and we can leave it at that.

Well, it depends on the device....For a desktop, I don't think it makes any sense to get a mac since you can get a much better pc for less; and since working on a desktop--upgrading and/or troubleshooting is much easier--less of a need for a warranty-based repair. For a laptop on the other hand, I think Macs are a good choice--and worth the money. The support is much better, the hardware tends to last longer, and they can compete with pcs with higher end components. So as long as you're not gaming, I definitely see Macs as being a worthy pc competitor on laptops.

[Guest]

Similar hardware doesn't mean similar experiences. Sure, an $800 PC and an $1100 MacBook Pro may both have the same specs, but you don't get the same experience. OS X and iOS are both very tight-knit OSes with quality design, solid, nearly crash-free foundations, and easy to set up applications and services. windows has applications built-in that are so user un-friendly that no one uses them, and 3rd party apps are an instant must-have when setting up a new system *coughIEcough*

 

I'm not saying Apple is an almighty god that we must all fear, but they do seem to have their shit in better order than the competition. People love the iPhone because it's easy to use, the apps are fantastic (Android's app collection is a lot of spam/useless apps… is Google so desperate for numbers that they'll pass anything through?), and the design and build quality is quite truly top-notch.

 

On the contrary, (still speaking phones here), handsets like the HTC One/One M8, the Nexus 5 and others are pretty nice feeling in the hand. But they all have something off about them; the One's hideous plastic bars running along the back, the Nexus 5's entire back is comprised of a smudge-magnet matte plastic, and so on. But Android is pretty easy to use, and the software is there, it's just not as clean and curated as Apple's ecosystem.

 

When it comes to desktops, Macs have impeccable build quality, the Retina MBPs obviously have killer displays, and the Mac Pro, trashcan or not, it a truly remarkable feat of computer engineering. Even the MacBook Airs have clean design, and are super-strong for their thinness; most Ultrabooks are scary to pick up when the seams between the plastic plates creak and bend.

 

Of course, these are all sweeping generalizations, but those go both ways.

[Guest]

Im kind of worried about the processor tho, I know its an i7 but isnt it like 3 year old technology? Isn't becoming obsolete and underpowered for modern day applications? How does it handle your workload, I'm not a designer or anything just a sciences student I just want to make sure I'm not buying a turtle of a CPU. Other than that I won't really mind the lack of retina and I can easily upgrade the ram and storage.

The CPU is good. It's not a super-recent one (I think they discontinued 17-inch MBPs in 2011), but it was a pretty high-end CPU when it came out; the 17-inch had all the good tech.

 

According to MacTracker (a Mac/iOS app with full specs of literally every Apple product made, ever), it's a Sandy Bridge Core i7 2760QM, with 6MB L2 cache, so it should still be a very respectable CPU.

[Victorious Secret]

Im kind of worried about the processor tho, I know its an i7 but isnt it like 3 year old technology? Isn't becoming obsolete and underpowered for modern day applications? How does it handle your workload, I'm not a designer or anything just a sciences student I just want to make sure I'm not buying a turtle of a CPU. Other than that I won't really mind the lack of retina and I can easily upgrade the ram and storage.

 

No issues here, its still plenty powerful for most tasks and it doesn't feel like its 'slowing' down at all. 

 

Its a quad core, 8 threads. True i7, its plenty powerful for everything you'll need out of it. 

[spartaman64]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/yKLvqs sure its 98 dollars more expensive than that imac but seeing how much better this is i don't think anyone will complain

[vaerk]

Well, I just bought a MacBook.

 

Only because it's high PPI and the only comparable device (to me) was the Lenovo Yoga Pro, which was more expensive than the one I ordered.

It's simple, really, I hate 768p with a passion, and I dislike 1080p... So..

[TheMonsterMash]

I hate fact that companies are marketing their products as a fashion  statement above functionality.  Beats sound like shit and people buy them, design is important but when people buy these overpriced products that have and more limited functionality just as a symbol of status i just think they have more money than sense 

[Rhotis]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/yKLvqs sure its 98 dollars more expensive than that imac but seeing how much better this is i don't think anyone will complain

 

Are you talking about the 1100 dollar imac?   You can beat that imac at a significantly cheaper price/  This is a 950 buck system.  If you want to deathnail the imac you have room to add an SSD in this one for your boot drive.  

 

 

[PCPartPicker part list](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mkxDkL) / [Price breakdown by merchant](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mkxDkL/by_merchant/)

 

Type|Item|Price

:----|:----|:----

**CPU** | [intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i54440) | $174.99 @ Newegg 

**Motherboard** | [ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asrock-motherboard-h97mitxac) | $88.98 @ Newegg 

**Memory** | [Kingston XMP Blu Red Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/kingston-memory-khx16c9b1rk28x) | $72.99 @ Amazon 

**Storage** | [seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st1000dm003) | $52.91 @ OutletPC 

**Video Card** | [EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-video-card-02gp43751kr) | $134.99 @ NCIX US 

**Case** | [Fractal Design Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/fractal-design-case-fdcanode304bl) | $89.99 @ NCIX US 

**Power Supply** | [Thermaltake 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/thermaltake-power-supply-pstpd0550mpcgus1) | $59.99 @ Newegg 

**Operating System** | [Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit)](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/microsoft-os-wn700615) | $89.98 @ OutletPC 

**Monitor** | [benQ GL2760H 60Hz 27.0" Monitor](http://pcpartpicker.com/part/benq-monitor-gl2760h) | $188.92 @ TigerDirect 

 | | **Total**

 | Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available | $953.74

[Ebenesh]

When I look at Apple products and look at their consumer base, you notice a few things.

 

1.) Their products just flat out work 100% as they were made to. Unlike buying notebooks from some other PC manufacturers, very rarely do hear about Macbooks having overheating problems, bad screens, etc. They are just well thought out and excellently designed products.

 

2.) Most people who buy Apple products regularly aren't going to know that you can build or buy a PC that's cheaper and variably faster. Most importantly, some don't care at all. People don't buy Macs to play the new "Crisis" or whatever resource intense game is popular.

 

3.) When you buy a Mac, you have the ability right off the bat to have full native Mac OS support + if you wanted, you could install and run windows and it would still work perfectly.

 

4.) Apple product consumers get great service from Apple because Apple owns stores, and hires workers that are or at least should be knowledgeable enough to help their customers on the spot. With other manufacturers, you simply don't get that same support. You often will have to talk to the retailer and check your warranties etc.. and most of the time you're still stuck having to ship the unit back to the manufacturer anyway. Apple = A lot less hassle 

 

That being said, I'm not even a Apple fanboi. Not even the slightest LOL. Every computer in the house is running Windows 8.1, never owned an apple product in my life. Not even an iPhone. Windows Phone is where it's at

 

It's true that it is a lot less hassle... But that luxury comes with a price premium...

[Ebenesh]

A 400$ pentium laptop "just works" too. It works even if you pay 1000$ for it, doesn't mean it makes sense to pay that much. It's not even a matter of if you have enough money or not, because with that money you could build a kickass workstation instead.

I think what people mean by it just works is something like the Swipe of that trackpad translating to that fluid motion on the screen, its a more natural experience with a Mac. I dont think "just works" means that it should have kick ass performace... Hope I got my point across right

[Ebenesh]

Cos everyone are comparing an iMac with PCs I'd like to point out that the iMac is a Laptop fused with a Monitor... So comparing them with Laptop specs and prices tend to make more sense... (who am i kidding) IT IS NOT A LAPTOP ! Maybe it might get a few points that way..

[Ebenesh]

I hate fact that companies are marketing their products as a fashion  statement above functionality.  Beats sound like shit and people buy them, design is important but when people buy these overpriced products that have and more limited functionality just as a symbol of status i just think they have more money than sense 

 

If your talking about beats... it's true.. but Macs do have a more functional value compared to that of Beats...

[Sauron]

I think what people mean by it just works is something like the Swipe of that trackpad translating to that fluid motion on the screen, its a more natural experience with a Mac. I dont think "just works" means that it should have kick ass performace... Hope I got my point across right

 

You did, however if people are willing to pay 600$ more for the "fluid trackpad motion" we live in a sorry world