What do people hate about Apple?

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, WhisperingKnickers said:

What do you mean?

Loot boxes.

[cloneman]

Apple likes to control the experience too much and there's a large amount of followers that are apologists for every bad decision they make.

There's no healthy dialogue between Apple and it's customers, so the output is overpriced products that don't have long warranties, expensive repair services,  and can't be upgraded.

Mac OSX Dock and Finder are piece of garbage that are not user friendly at all but no one complains about them for some reason. That's the kind of stuff that bothers me. If you read apple discussion forums, all you'll find are people telling you that you are wrong because you like to do things in an non-apple way. it's a very aggressive elitist stance, most often propaged by people with great English skills but very poor tech skills.

 

It's a stark contrast to other forums, where I often find people struggling with their language skills but I understand their mission and goals perfectly.

[Yoinkerman]

the way they conduct business and lie about it really strikes me the wrong way.  I won't support it.

[79wjd]

14 minutes ago, Yoinkerman said:

the way they conduct business and lie about it really strikes me the wrong way.  I won't support it.

It's kind of ironic that you're willing to support a company that has had class action suits levied against them for manipulating reviews and lying about performance. 

Quote

Mac OSX Dock and Finder are piece of garbage that are not user friendly at all but no one complains about them for some reason. 

I don't find either any more or less user friendly than Windows status bar or Windows Explorer. They basically work the same for most tasks/people. 

21 minutes ago, cloneman said:

If you read apple discussion forums, all you'll find are people telling you that you are wrong because you like to do things in an non-apple way. it's a very aggressive elitist stance,

 

most often propaged by people with great English skills but very poor tech skills.

You're saying that like any company-centric forum isn't the same way. AMD/Nvidia/Intel/etc... subreddits aren't any better than Apple subreddits/forums. And the percentage of users who are fluent in english could be entirely due to the fact that Apple products are a better value in the US than they are elsewhere in the world, plus the fact that Apple stores are more common in the US helps too.

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, TopHatProductions115 said:

Please tell me if I am overthinking this...

Tablet is a form factor. The entire system is fully functional with only the main device and is portable.

 

2-in-1 is either a laptop that can have the screen rotated backwards all the way to form a tablet or part of the system components are housed in the second half of the detachable, like the second battery and/or GPU in the Surface Book or the secondary HDD/SSD in some ASUS transformers.

 

Laptops are just clam shells.

 

OS has nothing to do with the form factor of a device.

[abazigal]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Tablet is a form factor. The entire system is fully functional with only the main device and is portable.

 

2-in-1 is either a laptop that can have the screen rotated backwards all the way to form a tablet or part of the system components are housed in the second half of the detachable, like the second battery and/or GPU in the Surface Book or the secondary HDD/SSD in some ASUS transformers.

 

Laptops are just clam shells.

 

OS has nothing to do with the form factor of a device.

Could one not argue that the OS complements the form factor and vice versa? That’s why the iPad took off while the early windows tablets floundered. The latter ran desktop software on a touchscreen device, and as such, the user experience sucked. Conversely, the iPad ran a mobile UI and sported apps optimised for touch and direct input. 

 

Microsoft saw tablets as just another form factor. Apple saw tablets as a whole new paradigm of interacting with your content and designed their hardware and software around providing the optimal experience for how they envisioned their users would use a tablet. 

 

I am more inclined to agree with Apple's approach. Ensure the hardware, software and services are all optimised to offer the best user experience possible (like what they have done with macOS, iOS, watchOS and tvOS), rather than simply shoving your OS into all manner of form factors and calling it a day. 

[Drak3]

Just now, abazigal said:

Could one not argue that the OS complements the form factor and vice versa?

One could. But Windows v iOS does not make a tablet anything other than a tablet.

[abazigal]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

One could. But Windows v iOS does not make a tablet anything other than a tablet.

I have no idea what this statement means. 

[Drak3]

Just now, abazigal said:

I have no idea what this statement means. 

The prior deal was that the Surface Pro was not really a tablet because it runs Windows 10, a more desktop oriented OS. Despite that the Surface Pro does not require a keyboard or mouse to have full function, just like an iPad or Android tablet.

[abazigal]

2 hours ago, Drak3 said:

The prior deal was that the Surface Pro was not really a tablet because it runs Windows 10, a more desktop oriented OS. Despite that the Surface Pro does not require a keyboard or mouse to have full function, just like an iPad or Android tablet.

I see it as the whole form vs essence argument. 

 

Yes, you can get work done on a windows tablet, but given that most applications run a desktop UI, does it not feel counterproductive to try and navigate the UI using only the touchscreen, when it was optimised for a keyboard and mouse paradigm? It would be like jogging through quicksand. 

 

Compared to the iPad, where everything is optimised for a touchscreen. For instance, I teach with my iPad in the classroom, and I have no problems holding my iPad in one hand and navigating it with the other. I am not sure a windows tablet would as optimised for such mobile usage as the iPad in my case at least. 

 

I would get a Surface Pro tablet primarily as a laptop replacement (I see it as a touchscreen laptop with stylus support). That it can double as a tablet would not really be a selling point for me as I know I can get a better tablet experience elsewhere in the form of the iPad. Conversely, I would get an iPad to use primarily in tablet-esqe scenarios, where mobility is paramount, even as I acknowledge that I can't do everything on it. 

 

TL;DR - I feel a surface pro is a tablet in form but not in essence. 

[LAwLz]

Some reasons I dislike, or used to dislike Apple.

 

1) Super annoying fanboys. Windows/Android has its fare share of idiots as well, but for some reason Apple fanboys often seem to have this smugness to them. They usually have no idea what the hell they are talking about, but feel the need to voice their (wrong) assumptions and flawed opinions anyway.

Just look at the thread on this forum where it was announced that the iPhone would drop the headphone jack. I was literally arguing with someone who didn't know that audio had to be converted to an analog signal in order for humans to hear it, and yet he felt like he had the knowledge needed to debate whether or not dropping the headphone jack was a good idea.

 

2) Apple used to sue everyone and has abused the patent system a lot. This has been incredibly bad for consumers because it has stifled competition and innovation. Apple is one of the major reasons why I think the patent system is garbage and need to be reworked.

 

3) I don't really like their products for a wide variety of reasons. A lot of which has already been brought up in this thread, such as the prices, the lack of ports, low performance in some aspects, and so on.

 

4) Steve Jobs was a truly awful human being, and it is sad to see people praise him so much. 

 

5) They rarely if every admit to their own mistakes. Even if they do, they twist it to seem like they did nothing wrong. 

 

6) Their warranties are garbage and for a "premium" brand they should be ashamed. I've had people tell me their warranty is good because you can trick their support into helping you even though you need to pay 50 dollars or however much for it. That's not good support. You shouldn't have to trick in order to get what should be considered basic support or regular warranty claims for issues you have not caused.

[LynxFX]

Macbook Pro - Can't run most games = 3000$ CDN 

 

x2 Asus Strix GTX 1080 TI's - Runs all games in 4k at high frame rates on highest graphic settings = 2000$ CDN 

 

Need I go on?

[Tcrumpen]

30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Some reasons I dislike, or used to dislike Apple.

 

1) Super annoying fanboys. Windows/Android has its fare share of idiots as well, but for some reason Apple fanboys often seem to have this smugness to them. They usually have no idea what the hell they are talking about, but feel the need to voice their (wrong) assumptions and flawed opinions anyway.

Just look at the thread on this forum where it was announced that the iPhone would drop the headphone jack. I was literally arguing with someone who didn't know that audio had to be converted to an analog signal in order for humans to hear it, and yet he felt like he had the knowledge needed to debate whether or not dropping the headphone jack was a good idea.

 

2) Apple used to sue everyone and has abused the patent system a lot. This has been incredibly bad for consumers because it has stifled competition and innovation. Apple is one of the major reasons why I think the patent system is garbage and need to be reworked.

 

3) I don't really like their products for a wide variety of reasons. A lot of which has already been brought up in this thread, such as the prices, the lack of ports, low performance in some aspects, and so on.

 

4) Steve Jobs was a truly awful human being, and it is sad to see people praise him so much. 

 

5) They rarely if every admit to their own mistakes. Even if they do, they twist it to seem like they did nothing wrong. 

 

6) Their warranties are garbage and for a "premium" brand they should be ashamed. I've had people tell me their warranty is good because you can trick their support into helping you even though you need to pay 50 dollars or however much for it. That's not good support. You shouldn't have to trick in order to get what should be considered basic support or regular warranty claims for issues you have not caused.

Apple fanboys and girls are the worst in the tech world; i agree that android and windows also has their fanboys but i found that most apple fans have a (false in my opinion) sense of self entitlement because they can afford a product that looks more expensive than it actually is (even though it's actually quite expensive anyway)

[GoldenLag]

5 hours ago, abazigal said:

I see it as the whole form vs essence argument. 

 

Yes, you can get work done on a windows tablet, but given that most applications run a desktop UI, does it not feel counterproductive to try and navigate the UI using only the touchscreen, when it was optimised for a keyboard and mouse paradigm? It would be like jogging through quicksand. 

 

Compared to the iPad, where everything is optimised for a touchscreen. For instance, I teach with my iPad in the classroom, and I have no problems holding my iPad in one hand and navigating it with the other. I am not sure a windows tablet would as optimised for such mobile usage as the iPad in my case at least. 

 

I would get a Surface Pro tablet primarily as a laptop replacement (I see it as a touchscreen laptop with stylus support). That it can double as a tablet would not really be a selling point for me as I know I can get a better tablet experience elsewhere in the form of the iPad. Conversely, I would get an iPad to use primarily in tablet-esqe scenarios, where mobility is paramount, even as I acknowledge that I can't do everything on it. 

 

TL;DR - I feel a surface pro is a tablet in form but not in essence. 

with the advent of emulating x86 using arm CPUs like the snapdragon 835. Seing as they will have acces to mobile broadband and telecommunication. what point does a phone become a phablet. a phablet a tablet and a phablet a 2 in 1 pc? i know im going of track here but im interested in hearing others opinion.

 

My guess is that phone-tablet is the point where you cant handle the phone/phablet with one hand. Phablet to tablet is the point when you can attach a fullsize keyboard without numpad(or with if you can manage). and Tablet to 2 in 1 pc is when the keyboard is a major important part of the unit. 

[Drak3]

5 hours ago, abazigal said:

Yes, you can get work done on a windows tablet, but given that most applications run a desktop UI, does it not feel counterproductive to try and navigate the UI using only the touchscreen, when it was optimised for a keyboard and mouse paradigm? It would be like jogging through quicksand. 

On anything with a 10"+ screen, the smallest UI elements are a bit bigger the size of your typical iPhone keyboard key. Beyond that, the only thing optimized for KB+M about Windows is that everything can run as a resizeable window. Tablet mode in W10 automatically full screens just about every app, and the nice thing about Windows tablets is that they don't remove functionality of things like the file explorer.

 

6 hours ago, abazigal said:

Compared to the iPad, where everything is optimised for a touchscreen. For instance, I teach with my iPad in the classroom, and I have no problems holding my iPad in one hand and navigating it with the other. I am not sure a windows tablet would as optimised for such mobile usage as the iPad in my case at least.

Having ran a Note 10.1 2014 and a Surface Pro 4, everything I can do with the Note 10.1 I can do with the Pro 4. It might weigh more, but the weight distribution doesn't make it any harder to hold than a 16:9 10" Android tablet. Navigating with one hand is easy.

 

6 hours ago, abazigal said:

I feel a surface pro is a tablet in form but not in essence.

6 hours ago, abazigal said:

I see it as the whole form vs essence argument.

There is no 'essence' to what makes a tablet or not.

 

 

And as far as I'm concerned, 10"+ screen sizes, Windows 10 is superior to iOS and Android on tablets.

 

[Bouzoo]

1 hour ago, LynxFX said:

Macbook Pro - Can't run most games = 3000$ CDN 

 

x2 Asus Strix GTX 1080 TI's - Runs all games in 4k at high frame rates on highest graphic settings = 2000$ CDN 

 

Need I go on?

Just want to point out that you're comparing 2 graphics cards without a system that can't do anything on it's own, to a laptop/ultrabook which can fully function on it's own and do everything except play games. Going by your comparison, you can take any laptop and compare it to a 1080Ti and ask "Need I go on?". Don't want to be rude, but that is hands down dumb.

Not everything in this world is about gaming, which is the only thing this forum cares about. Same reason why Dell XPS 13 costs the same as MBP 13''. It's a premium product. I'm not defending Apple, but if we're gonna call one company out, then we need to call out all of them. Which we never do. 

Even if you would use a gaming laptop for comparison, like Clevo laptops or something similar that can run all games for the same price, albeit not at 4K, then you'll see that these premium products do have some things that are better than your average gaming things, like the general build quality, screen, touchpad and quite often the keyboard, which are more important when you're using the machines for work. And guess what, they are oriented to that market, they were never marketed as gaming machines. It's like saying that the new Rolls Royce sucks because it can't match the speed of Lamborghini Aventador for the same or even higher price and can't match the lap time around Nurburgring. And you know what? It doesn't need to.

 

[Aleks NE]

On 11/12/2017 at 4:01 AM, DanielMDA said:

I mean as a tablet, not a 2 in 1. 

The Surface is a tablet, it can not replace a PC. 

[TopHatProductions115]

6 minutes ago, <Aleks> said:

The Surface is a tablet, it can not replace a PC. 

So it isn't a 2-in-1?

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 hour ago, <Aleks> said:

The Surface is a tablet, it can not replace a PC. 

But it is a PC.

[Yoinkerman]

16 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's kind of ironic that you're willing to support a company that has had class action suits levied against them for manipulating reviews and lying about performance. 

I don't find either any more or less user friendly than Windows status bar or Windows Explorer. They basically work the same for most tasks/people. 

You're saying that like any company-centric forum isn't the same way. AMD/Nvidia/Intel/etc... subreddits aren't any better than Apple subreddits/forums. And the percentage of users who are fluent in english could be entirely due to the fact that Apple products are a better value in the US than they are elsewhere in the world, plus the fact that Apple stores are more common in the US helps too.

Sorry you'll have to be more specific most companies have participated in manipulating reviews and scores.  

 

I legit don't know which you are referring to in this case.

 

I also care very little for benchmark scores.  I mean business practices where they claim to be green but make company policies to not repair phones.  Where they claim to be socially minded but have foxconn install nets so people can't kill themselves at apple factories.  Etc

[79wjd]

17 minutes ago, Yoinkerman said:

Sorry you'll have to be more specific most companies have participated in manipulating reviews and scores.  

 

I legit don't know which you are referring to in this case.

 

I also care very little for benchmark scores.  I mean business practices where they claim to be green but make company policies to not repair phones.  Where they claim to be socially minded but have foxconn install nets so people can't kill themselves at apple factories.  Etc

Intel Pentium shenanigans (and AMD more recently actually for that matter, although AMD was more of a stupid stunt that just got them some bad PR). 

 

And Foxconn produces a lot more than just Apple products -- they produce basically everything. Also, manipulating reviews isn't exactly any better of a business practice.

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

6) Their warranties are garbage and for a "premium" brand they should be ashamed. I've had people tell me their warranty is good because you can trick their support into helping you even though you need to pay 50 dollars or however much for it. That's not good support. You shouldn't have to trick in order to get what should be considered basic support or regular warranty claims for issues you have not caused.

Apple's warranties aren't any worse than what's standard in the industry -- most companies only include a 1 year warranty and charge for anything more. The fact that they don't acknowledge device-wide problems is another story and is a problem in and of itself, but their warranty is perfectly is fine.

 

And I get a feeling the latter bit of this point is directed at me -- you can convince them to fix/replace things that are out of warranty for free -- not for some extra charge. I've done it quite a few times now (mainly because their chargers are stupidly fragile around the connectors).

5 hours ago, LynxFX said:

Macbook Pro - Can't run most games = 3000$ CDN 

 

x2 Asus Strix GTX 1080 TI's - Runs all games in 4k at high frame rates on highest graphic settings = 2000$ CDN 

 

Need I go on?

Macbook Pro - can be used on the go, without being plugged in, for more than a nanosecond. 

 

Need I go on? 

4 hours ago, Drak3 said:

On anything with a 10"+ screen, the smallest UI elements are a bit bigger the size of your typical iPhone keyboard key.

You also hold an iPhone and a 10"+ tablet in very different ways. My hand is wrapped around my phone making it easy to press small elements; with a tablet it isn't.

3 hours ago, said:

The Surface .... can not replace a PC. 

It can, albeit poorly. 

[Bouzoo]

3 hours ago, <Aleks> said:

The Surface is a tablet, it can not replace a PC. 

For most people it can. If you were a normal user that doesn't game or do any professional work, you can literally use it for pretty much everything that a laptop could do. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

13 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

For most people it can. If you were a normal user that doesn't game or do any professional work, you can literally use it for pretty much everything that a laptop could do. 

That depends on the professional work. Not every profession needs a powerful computer and lots of people are fine with midrange equipment.

 

I'm certain lots of artists would love something like the Surface Pro, because it sure as hell beats carrying around a Wacom + laptop.

[Aleks NE]

4 hours ago, TopHatProductions115 said:

So it isn't a 2-in-1?

Well no, because it's sold without the keyboard. So it's just a tablet. 

 

[Bouzoo]

56 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

That depends on the professional work. Not every profession needs a powerful computer and lots of people are fine with midrange equipment.

 

I'm certain lots of artists would love something like the Surface Pro, because it sure as hell beats carrying around a Wacom + laptop.

Which even further proves my point.