Apple please watch this.

[AlexTheGreatish]

We've made the MacBook Air cooler many times, but with the help of Frore Systems this time Apple should pay attention.

 

Check out Frore Systems: https://www.froresystems.com/

Buy an Apple M2 MacBook Air: https://geni.us/9CSriF

Buy an Apple M2 MacBook Pro: https://geni.us/UGH6G

Check Out M2 MacBooks at Best Buy: https://lmg.gg/84gIL

urchases made through some store links may provide some compensation to Linus Media Group.

 

 

 

[DaniVisuals]

Hello! Can you guys provide info on what software you used to measure the temperature and wattage of the Macbooks towards the end of the video to check for throttling.

Thank you!

[hishnash]

What is the durability on these like, how do they code if they injest dust or find sand etc, given how they work I would be worried that your not going to be able to clean them out in the same way as you can a fan.   

[Vic_Romano]

Ended up more impressed with the passively cooled MBA honestly. For a passively cooled machine to not even lose 10% performance during a torture test is very impressive. To me it validates Apple's decision to go passive.

[RollinLower]

19 minutes ago, hishnash said:

What is the durability on these like, how do they code if they injest dust or find sand etc, given how they work I would be worried that your not going to be able to clean them out in the same way as you can a fan.   

they have a built-in cleaning mode that runs every once in a while that pushes air backwards through it and spits out the dust.

i still wouldn't trust it 100% though. they look like they would clog up easily.

[maplepants]

9 minutes ago, Vic_Romano said:

Ended up more impressed with the passively cooled MBA honestly. For a passively cooled machine to not even lose 10% performance during a torture test is very impressive. To me it validates Apple's decision to go passive.

I had the same reaction to the video. I think their decision to make a fanless option and a "Pro" option with a fan was the way to go. 

 

At one point in the video he says, about the noise, "we'll get to that later" but they never do. But the end result was probably that their modded Air was way louder than the regular Air and even louder than the Pro. 

 

These things are cool, but putting them up against Apple Macbook Air and Pro cooling systems was not a great plan to begin with. If they had pitched me this video idea, I would have suggested that rather than ruin a Macbook they should take some existing, but loud, ultrabook PC and mod these things in to reduce noise / improve cooling.

 

Especially if the goal is to make them look attractive.

[darwin006]

I wish I could put these in my Steam Deck and Framework laptop.

[themrsbusta]

I'm just curious but: Videos like this don't canibalize a bit Mac Address?

[themrsbusta]

34 minutes ago, darwin006 said:

I wish I could put these in my Steam Deck and Framework laptop.

Should have a Framework option to have this from the factory

[Vinculus]

This really feels like an embarrassing take overall.

 

All the jabs at Apple for actually having a passively cooled but quite impressively performant laptop - an actually silent laptop!

 

Then they go and mod it, make it noisy, don't talk about the noise, get the laptop to use about 5 extra watts under a stress test and gain maybe 10% performance - but only after its heat-soaked - for bursty workloads there's zero performance gain.

Nothing about this cooler actually benefits the normal use case for the Air product line, or the unique aspect of being 100% silent. It doesn't even make the cooler tech seem especially impressive, even though it might be in a different application.

If anything, this shows that the M2 Air is actually extremely impressive as it's designed and that there's almost no upside to adding noise and dealing with internal dust build up.

It's just a poor take and it makes LTT look silly.

[Adriansss]

At 13:33 there's a mistake in the subtitles, should be "4/100 of a millimeter" and not 400th.

But also what the off-camera person says is wrong. 400microns is 4/10 of a millimeter, not 4/100

[aminit]

13 minutes ago, Vinculus said:

It's just a poor take and it makes LTT look silly.

I dont think its a take to begin with, its a showcase of a new technology and the effect is minimal (like shown in the video) but it works, and you never know with better implementations in the future it might have better results.

[RabbidEwok]

Laptop loses 80% of its performance when on battery vs mains: This is fine 
 

MacBook designed for light loads loses a tiny bit of performance when loaded up to 100% artifically: PANIK! 

[Vinculus]

21 minutes ago, aminit said:

I dont think its a take to begin with, its a showcase of a new technology and the effect is minimal (like shown in the video) but it works, and you never know with better implementations in the future it might have better results.

I think you're probably right - I think the reason it bothered me is because instead of framing it as a showcase, they framed it like a critique of the MacBook Air in the video - and from that point of view, it fails.

The thumbnail is even "We Fixed It" which is implying the Air is broken, and clearly it's not broken. The one they 'fixed' is now actually broken ironically.

[starsmine]

3 hours ago, maplepants said:

I had the same reaction to the video. I think their decision to make a fanless option and a "Pro" option with a fan was the way to go. 

 

At one point in the video he says, about the noise, "we'll get to that later" but they never do. But the end result was probably that their modded Air was way louder than the regular Air and even louder than the Pro. 

 

These things are cool, but putting them up against Apple Macbook Air and Pro cooling systems was not a great plan to begin with. If they had pitched me this video idea, I would have suggested that rather than ruin a Macbook they should take some existing, but loud, ultrabook PC and mod these things in to reduce noise / improve cooling.

 

Especially if the goal is to make them look attractive.

Bro... This is still a fanless solution.

Also this is a modification of the air, not engineering a solution for these solid state coolers to fit in the first place with a vapor chamber. The issues are discussed in the video, such as the ssd coolers should ideally be attached to the die, not used in a way a fan would.

There is ZERO reason for the macbook air to thermal throttle in a cold room at load other then some manager taking the piss when solid state cooling exists. This is not a successfull passive cooling solution. People buy macbook airs and sometimes (shocking I know) encode a video

[hishnash]

25 minutes ago, starsmine said:

There is ZERO reason for the macbook air to thermal throttle in a cold room at load other then some manager taking the piss when solid state cooling exists. This is not a successfull passive cooling solution. People buy macbook airs and sometimes (shocking I know) encode a video

Well cost and power draw are factors when it comes to considering what you're adding to a system. 

Also supply volume is a factory, I would be very surprised if this vendor could even dream about meeting apples volume requimrents even if they were given 2 to 3 years notice.  The MBA is the most popular Mac, and infact it is the most popular laptop (not just Mac) apple sells a LOT of these.    I would expect a new tec like this to no ship on the highest volume product first, something like an iPad Pro would be a better (lower volume higher margin) product for this tec. 

[RabbidEwok]

1 hour ago, starsmine said:

Bro... This is still a fanless solution.

Also this is a modification of the air, not engineering a solution for these solid state coolers to fit in the first place with a vapor chamber. The issues are discussed in the video, such as the ssd coolers should ideally be attached to the die, not used in a way a fan would.

There is ZERO reason for the macbook air to thermal throttle in a cold room at load other then some manager taking the piss when solid state cooling exists. This is not a successfull passive cooling solution. People buy macbook airs and sometimes (shocking I know) encode a video

I don’t think you’re getting the point of the MacBook Air. In what the laptop is used for it will never throttle 

[AnzacPT]

i admire the piezo cooling and I am sure that it will come in a big way. but this was an awful video that in the end just showed that it basically made no diference. I´m certain that if it was designed into the system it would work much better, but this presentation just cemented into a lot of minds (maybe even at Apple), that the Mac Air design is sound.

 

Linus is terrible, trying to make a big scene when in the end, it barely made a dent in performance.

 

I thought production values were going to improve. Doesn't look like it.

Not everything deserves a video. Not every video should be released after testing shows it's just a big nothing burger.

 

and for the love of god, stop pretending that looking like an idiot that needs an entourage to act shocked and then come to the WAN and the forums and say you´re an EXPERT.

 

you know a lot and I respect that. I've also been dealing with computers since the 8 bit age. and now my age shows. so does yours. you´re not a teen making videos anymore. grow up.

[starsmine]

16 minutes ago, RabbidEwok said:

I don’t think you’re getting the point of the MacBook Air. In what the laptop is used for it will never throttle 

Then it shouldn't use such a powerful chip. make a smaller M silicon that uses even less watts, making it even cheaper. 

Oh no, that's dumb. The people who buy Airs still work on them. It's unhinged to act like a laptop that costs this much not being able to do work is ok. Please people still compile code on them, they still edit their family videos or photos, they still do work on them. 

ANY laptop that thermal throttles when it is in a cold environment has fucked up. Because warm environments exist, people use their laptops in bed, people dont often live in canada.  

[UnknownWalls]

9 hours ago, AlexTheGreatish said:

 

urchases made through some store links may provide some compensation to Linus Media Group.

 

 

 

Urchases 

[darwin006]

Is Frore Systems really trying to get Apples attention with this video? Cause that seems strange. There was clearly someone from Frore Systems just off screen while the mac book was being hacked up. Why have LTT recreate a demo that Frore Systems already showed off at CES and other trade shows? Does no one want to work with them? Why not partner with someone to make upgrade kits for existing devices that dont destroy some functionality of the device? It would have been cool to see a video on a prototype upgraded cooling solution to an existing device.

[atxcyclist]

8 hours ago, Vinculus said:

This really feels like an embarrassing take overall.

 

All the jabs at Apple for actually having a passively cooled but quite impressively performant laptop - an actually silent laptop!

 

Then they go and mod it, make it noisy, don't talk about the noise, get the laptop to use about 5 extra watts under a stress test and gain maybe 10% performance - but only after its heat-soaked - for bursty workloads there's zero performance gain.

Nothing about this cooler actually benefits the normal use case for the Air product line, or the unique aspect of being 100% silent. It doesn't even make the cooler tech seem especially impressive, even though it might be in a different application.

If anything, this shows that the M2 Air is actually extremely impressive as it's designed and that there's almost no upside to adding noise and dealing with internal dust build up.

It's just a poor take and it makes LTT look silly.

To be fair, my M2 Pro Touchbar even with fan controller software artificially ramping-up the fan, is quieter than any room I've used it in;  I cannot hear it. As far as dust, there are a few screws on the bottom and an air duster is cheap, probably once every few years it may be necessary, but probably not.

[RabbidEwok]

6 hours ago, starsmine said:

Then it shouldn't use such a powerful chip. make a smaller M silicon that uses even less watts, making it even cheaper. 

it would just make it more expense as you’d have to develop a chip just for it. You can also control power draw through clocks so you’re not actually losing any performance, you’re actually gaining it doing it this way. 

6 hours ago, starsmine said:

 

 

 

Oh no, that's dumb. The people who buy Airs still work on them. It's unhinged to act like a laptop that costs this much not being able to do work is ok. Please people still compile code on them, they still edit their family videos or photos, they still do work on them. 
 

They do, they don’t however run artificial benchmarks several times to load up the thermal mass. Even with light video editing you shouldn’t see any throttling with the air.

6 hours ago, starsmine said:

ANY laptop that thermal throttles when it is in a cold environment has fucked up. Because warm environments exist, people use their laptops in bed, people dont often live in canada.  

You mean like any laptop that can’t sustain its perforce on battery has fucked up? You’re losing a tiny fraction of performance with the air, something 99% of the people who buy it will never actually experience and the remaining 1% won’t notice. They would notice a laptop losing half its performance when ok battery though, something LTT doesn’t ever mention or even benchmark. 

[starsmine]

21 minutes ago, RabbidEwok said:

it would just make it more expense as you’d have to develop a chip just for it. You can also control power draw through clocks so you’re not actually losing any performance, you’re actually gaining it doing it this way. 

They do, they don’t however run artificial benchmarks several times to load up the thermal mass. Even with light video editing you shouldn’t see any throttling with the air.

You mean like any laptop that can’t sustain its perforce on battery has fucked up? You’re losing a tiny fraction of performance with the air, something 99% of the people who buy it will never actually experience and the remaining 1% won’t notice. They would notice a laptop losing half its performance when ok battery though, something LTT doesn’t ever mention or even benchmark. 

You... what about power draw? you lower clocks to control power draw and gain performance? excuse me what? that's not how this works. 

 

Cinebench is only artificial in terms that you are not getting a usable frame out at the end, Blender hits the CPU harder and longer than Cinebench does. Video exporting will hit the CPU harder and longer than Cinebench does. Dwarf fortess can hit the CPU harder and longer, Civilization can hit the CPU harder and longer. Cinebench is a great benchmark because of its consistency. Hell code compilation can if the project is big enough. A heavy spreadsheet can be heavy. 

Battery performance is not what is being discussed, you get power throttled there, not thermal throttled. The goal is to put the power throttle threshold to maximize performance per watt hour, not getting the job done fast while not maximizing it so much that it negatively effects usability.

also no, a higher yielding smaller chip would not make it more expensive. yes a new chip has to be designed but you are talking about a chip that can power ipads as well. 

[hishnash]

3 hours ago, darwin006 said:

Is Frore Systems really trying to get Apples attention with this video? Cause that seems strange. There was clearly someone from Frore Systems just off screen while the mac book was being hacked up. Why have LTT recreate a demo that Frore Systems already showed off at CES and other trade shows? Does no one want to work with them? Why not partner with someone to make upgrade kits for existing devices that dont destroy some functionality of the device? It would have been cool to see a video on a prototype upgraded cooling solution to an existing device.

They know there is now way they will get apples attention, they could not even dream of meeting the order volume demands that apple put require fro a MBA but they do want some of apples competitors in the new windows for ARM area to consider them. 

Upgrade kits do not come with a vendor willing to put in a large enough order that would allow them to scale production from prototype to real product.