Heatsinks' TDPs can be trusted?

[Mark Kaine]

22 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

The OP has 3 fans per prior statement

yeap 2 on cooler one blowing air *into* the case, which doesn't do anything (as per the very vague "log".... trust me im trying but that's how it reads to me, hence pictures required) 

Spoiler

you always have to list *total amount* and not just wishy washy fan here fan there, as established op mentioned 3 fans, my pc has 9 fans! see the difference? 

 

22 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

the CPU is crap...

doubtful...

 

22 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

I'm surprised you're not familiar with the mounting system described... it's real. 

never heard of it, i don't doubt it's real,  i doubt its functionality.

 

 

[RevGAM]

Sorry if I came across as rude or condescending.

 

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeap 2 on cooler one blowing air *into* the case, which doesn't do anything (as per the very vague "log".... trust me im trying but that's how it reads to me, hence pictures required) 

Uh, no...One on the top blowing down on the cooler, one on the front intaking air, one on the rear exhausting air. And an Arctic BioniX on the cooler.

5 hours ago, Imago said:

Well, I have a Chieftec CI-01B-OP v2 with one fan in front sucking air in and one in the back pulling air out (Both are Arctic F12) plus another one on the top pushing air directly on top of the CPU Cooler (Another ARCTIC F12). The cooler is a Mars Gaming MCPU220 with the original fan replace by an Arctic Bionix P120. Dust filters removed to increase airflow. Fan curves are set in the BIOS to maximize airflow when under heavy load, the fans gradually reach 100% when the CPU goes over 75C°.

 

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

you always have to list *total amount* and not just wishy washy fan here fan there, as established op mentioned 3 fans, my pc has 9 fans! see the difference? 

Not really. I know more about the OP's fans than I do about yours, specifically quantity, their locations and direction of flow. Or have I missed something?

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

never heard of it, i don't doubt it's real,  i doubt its functionality.

So you've never seen the clip system on a stock cooler?

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

2 hours ago, RevGAM said:

the CPU is crap...

doubtful...

It's not the case. Even open, the temps are too high. That also eliminates the fans. The OP tried repasting and checking the tension.

So, either that Mars Gaming (seriously, is that really a brand?!!) cooler (including the clip) is crap, or the CPU is crap.

[Mark Kaine]

11 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

So, either that Mars Gaming (seriously, is that really a brand?!!) cooler (including the clip) is crap, or the CPU is crap

thats what it boils down to, and my gut feeling tells me its almost never the cpu itself.... honestly failure rates are extremely low?

 

its a "mars gaming" cooler.... this keeps getting worse...!  

 

 

honestly its great if you can decrypt ops messages,  its extremely hard for me, this information should all be in the op, easily digestible...

 

but its the cooler then most likely,  hence i said get a peerless assassin and be done with.

 

[RevGAM]

@ImagoOk, @Mark Kaine and I have reached an agreement. Get a different cooler before applying for an RMA.

[Imago]

10 hours ago, RevGAM said:

@ImagoOk, @Mark Kaine and I have reached an agreement. Get a different cooler before applying for an RMA.

Ok, thanks for the advice! I'll look for a different cooler then. I'm pretty sure the chip is good, I give it pretty big loads (I do 3D animations)
I think it's a quite obvious question now: Any advice on which brand I should focus? Someone here said that Noctua is just "less noisy" than better than others.

I didn't imagine my descriptions were so bad, english isn't my native language and surely there is some weirdness in my phrasing. I apologize to everyone for the confusion!

[TatamiMatt]

3 hours ago, Imago said:

Ok, thanks for the advice! I'll look for a different cooler then. I'm pretty sure the chip is good, I give it pretty big loads (I do 3D animations)
I think it's a quite obvious question now: Any advice on which brand I should focus? Someone here said that Noctua is just "less noisy" than better than others.

I didn't imagine my descriptions were so bad, english isn't my native language and surely there is some weirdness in my phrasing. I apologize to everyone for the confusion!

You have a few options at a few price ranges, on the cheap end you could get something like the Thermalright Assassin X, or for a little more you could get the hyper 212, or AK/AG400, and for an extra 25% or so (only about £10) you can get the peerless assassin/phantom spirit or AK/AG620 which will fully cover your cooling needs. Beyond this, performance stays around the same, some a little higher or lower but generally noise levels reduce, for example the dark rock pro 4 or if you want to go the whole mile in expenses the NH-D15. Id very much not recommend anything more expensive for your chip, and to be honest probably £40 max if even, some other peeps might also have some suggestions, but just browse some and see what you think would fit your own chip, disregarding TDP as its a shaky way to compare at best!

[RevGAM]

Noctua is quieter than most, and the quality tends to be very good, but prices tend to be high unless you buy redux products,  although there are exceptions. 

 

Plenty of choices from numerous brands that will work well...

[Mark Kaine]

55 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

Noctua is quieter than most, and the quality tends to be very good, but prices tend to be high unless you buy redux products,  although there are exceptions. 

 

Plenty of choices from numerous brands that will work well...

definitely prefer the redux and the rubber thingies that come with the far more expensive beige ones are honestly negligible. 

 

i mean, it just looks cool? 

 

 

 

Spoiler

mind the u12s comes with the rubber thingies, but the normal case fans don't and from my experience you don't need them at all for those 

 

[Imago]

I checked the Noctua store and found some nice piece there.

But before buy one of those, which parameter should I follow, like "go for the high heatpipe count"?

As everyone stated here the TDP isn't reliable and I would like to avoid spending 100$ on another useless chunk of unrecyclable metal.

[TatamiMatt]

37 minutes ago, Imago said:

I checked the Noctua store and found some nice piece there.

But before buy one of those, which parameter should I follow, like "go for the high heatpipe count"?

As everyone stated here the TDP isn't reliable and I would like to avoid spending 100$ on another useless chunk of unrecyclable metal.

Best bet would be a comparative look on things, generally higher heatpipe count and diameter means better cooling but the makeup of the heatpipes themselves also matters (though only slightly), but eventually its tapers off in effectiveness, no matter what the material is or how much of it there is, theres a limit somewhere to how much heat can move where. Take a look at the noctua ones and look up for example, "nhd15 vs ak620 comparison" etc, you can compare their cooling to both each other and to other coolers and get a better outlook on it that way, in short, real world performance testing shown as a comparison as opposed to factory lab tested TDP ratings

[Imago]

42 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Best bet would be a comparative look on things, generally higher heatpipe count and diameter means better cooling but the makeup of the heatpipes themselves also matters (though only slightly), but eventually its tapers off in effectiveness, no matter what the material is or how much of it there is, theres a limit somewhere to how much heat can move where. Take a look at the noctua ones and look up for example, "nhd15 vs ak620 comparison" etc, you can compare their cooling to both each other and to other coolers and get a better outlook on it that way, in short, real world performance testing shown as a comparison as opposed to factory lab tested TDP ratings

Thanks for the advice, I'll surely do it.

I guess the first comparation will be with this "big boi": http://www.thermalright.com/product/burst-assassin-120/

It's easy to install, got a bigger fin stack and also six heatpipes. On first look it looks the solution for me but after all the tips here I'll go steady and slowly.

[TatamiMatt]

5 minutes ago, Imago said:

Thanks for the advice, I'll surely do it.

I guess the first comparation will be with this "big boi": http://www.thermalright.com/product/burst-assassin-120/

It's easy to install, got a bigger fin stack and also six heatpipes. On first look it looks the solution for me but after all the tips here I'll go steady and slowly.

One more thing to keep in mind is RAM clearance, make sure your RAM can fit either beside or under whatever cooler it is

But thats a good cooler for a great price, just £15!

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, Imago said:

I checked the Noctua store and found some nice piece there.

But before buy one of those, which parameter should I follow, like "go for the high heatpipe count"?

As everyone stated here the TDP isn't reliable and I would like to avoid spending 100$ on another useless chunk of unrecyclable metal.

honestly your cpu shouldn't get that hot, so a u12a/s should do it, i mean its fine for my 5800x3D... but also, it cant hurt to go for a more chunky noctua,  they're high quality and it won't be wasted as you could use it for actually more powerful cpus as well where the u12s maybe wouldn't cut it anymore. 

 

imo, i prefer smaller coolers as i have a small case, its just more practical.

 

 

[Imago]

2 hours ago, TatamiMatt said:

One more thing to keep in mind is RAM clearance, make sure your RAM can fit either beside or under whatever cooler it is

But thats a good cooler for a great price, just £15!

Your comment made me double check measurements... RAM clearance is OK... The problem is that my case can take 150mm max height coolers (data from producer's website) and the Thermalright is 154mm tall.

I can remove the upper fan but that 4mm offset can be a problem. I guess have to look for a shorter one.

Problems you get when you are forced into a small case.

 

*edit*

Found the the "heir" http://www.thermalright.com/product/assassin-king-120-se/

Let's watch some videos.

Anyway, I guess I'vo got my answer.

Thanks everyone for the help!

Edited September 29, 2023 by Imago

[RevGAM]

I have a pretty big case but I found that as long as I made sure that the height of the cooler wasn't too much, the cooler would....No, wait, that's not correct, because coolers are 3D.

So, actually, I got suggestions on appropriate coolers, then:

1. I eliminated those that were too tall.
2. Then I looked at whether they'd clear my RAM and VRM stack.
3. Then I made sure they wouldn't overhang my RAM and M2 slots because I do NOT like removing a cooler to add stuff. Honestly, I don't even like opening the back of the case because the kraken inside always tries to consume me! Oh well...Battle wounds are sexy, right?
4. But, hey, it turns out my mobo is a bit goofy, so I also had to make sure that the cooler didn't sit so low that it would collide with nearby and surprisingly important stuff like, oh, the capacitors around the socket and, well, I don't know the names for everything - do you think I'm an engineer?   Suffice it to say I had to take a lot of measurements, which caused me to eliminate the mighty D15.
5. Once I got done comparing the specs of the remaining coolers (don't ask, I'm not going to look for my notes in the aether), the U12A was the obvious choice. Then again, I hadn't been given many suggestions because, well, people on Tom's Hardware are grumpier than here?!? =*GASP*= (Don't quote me!) I think they managed to scrape together 6 suggestions for me, and I added one or two more.
6. When I say comparing specs, I looked at the number of heatpipes, whether they were direct contact or not, the dimensions (obv.) which often weren't stated so I had to actually magnify specs and measure them to get estimates - very annoying, and a bunch of other stuff, which helped me because, you know, more is sometimes better except when it's not.
7. When all was said and done, the U12A was the ONLY choice left.

Just as  a note, I think I gave some of the TH people anxiety. There was one guy who kept harassing me by saying that I worry too much.

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=-- GASP!--=

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[Imago]

11 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

I have a pretty big case but I found that as long as I made sure that the height of the cooler wasn't too much, the cooler would....No, wait, that's not correct, because coolers are 3D.

So, actually, I got suggestions on appropriate coolers, then:

1. I eliminated those that were too tall.
2. Then I looked at whether they'd clear my RAM and VRM stack.
3. Then I made sure they wouldn't overhang my RAM and M2 slots because I do NOT like removing a cooler to add stuff. Honestly, I don't even like opening the back of the case because the kraken inside always tries to consume me! Oh well...Battle wounds are sexy, right?
4. But, hey, it turns out my mobo is a bit goofy, so I also had to make sure that the cooler didn't sit so low that it would collide with nearby and surprisingly important stuff like, oh, the capacitors around the socket and, well, I don't know the names for everything - do you think I'm an engineer?   Suffice it to say I had to take a lot of measurements, which caused me to eliminate the mighty D15.
5. Once I got done comparing the specs of the remaining coolers (don't ask, I'm not going to look for my notes in the aether), the U12A was the obvious choice. Then again, I hadn't been given many suggestions because, well, people on Tom's Hardware are grumpier than here?!? =*GASP*= (Don't quote me!) I think they managed to scrape together 6 suggestions for me, and I added one or two more.
6. When I say comparing specs, I looked at the number of heatpipes, whether they were direct contact or not, the dimensions (obv.) which often weren't stated so I had to actually magnify specs and measure them to get estimates - very annoying, and a bunch of other stuff, which helped me because, you know, more is sometimes better except when it's not.
7. When all was said and done, the U12A was the ONLY choice left.

Just as  a note, I think I gave some of the TH people anxiety. There was one guy who kept harassing me by saying that I worry too much.

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=-- GASP!--=

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I took all the measurements carefully and I'm pretty sure that the Thermalright Assassin King 120 SE I just bought form Amazon should fit no problems.

I'll try sitting it on the chip without "installing" and closing the upper lid. My case has the MoBo on horizontal and the case opens like a jewerly box, so I can do that easily. The cooler is 148MM and the max on my case is 150MM... Considering one millimeter of error in both directions, there should be no issues. Otherwise, the awesome Return Policy will allow me to send the cooler back and get another model in just a couple of days.

My MoBo is a Gigabyte B450M DS3H, it has a so tiny heatsink for VRMs that will never hit the cooler.

The only concern for now are the RAMs, I have a Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x16 kit. They aren't colossal as I saw in other systems but their heatsink is a bit tall.

Any other element around the socket is quite short... so considering the distance form the contact plate and the fins, everything should fit nicely.

To return to the main topic, I noticed that Thermalright doesn't give any values for the supposed TPDs of their products. Maybe they are more honest than others about that?

I found in another web page, where they did some testing and review, that the Assassin King 120 SE got a 260w TPD but I really don't know how they got that value. This time I got the cooler just byt size of the fins stack, double of the cooler I have now and number of heatpipes, one more than now... Let's see if I get double the heat dissipation, ahahah!

[RevGAM]

1 minute ago, Imago said:

I took all the measurements carefully and I'm pretty sure that the Thermalright Assassin King 120 SE I just bought form Amazon should fit no problems.

I'll try sitting it on the chip without "installing" and closing the upper lid. My case has the MoBo on horizontal and the case opens like a jewerly box, so I can do that easily. The cooler is 148MM and the max on my case is 150MM... Considering one millimeter of error in both directions, there should be no issues. Otherwise, the awesome Return Policy will allow me to send the cooler back and get another model in just a couple of days.

My MoBo is a Gigabyte B450M DS3H, it has a so tiny heatsink for VRMs that will never hit the cooler.

The only concern for now are the RAMs, I have a Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x16 kit. They aren't colossal as I saw in other systems but their heatsink is a bit tall.

Any other element around the socket is quite short... so considering the distance form the contact plate and the fins, everything should fit nicely.

To return to the main topic, I noticed that Thermalright doesn't give any values for the supposed TPDs of their products. Maybe they are more honest than others about that?

I found in another web page, where they did some testing and review, that the Assassin King 120 SE got a 260w TPD but I really don't know how they got that value. This time I got the cooler just byt size of the fins stack, double of the cooler I have now and number of heatpipes, one more than now... Let's see if I get double the heat dissipation, ahahah!

Not sure if you'll need one of those AMD offset frames (Noctua makes 'em).

TR isn't always diligent about including specs...and doesn't always have correct info.

Let us know how it works out!

[Imago]

3 hours ago, RevGAM said:

Let us know how it works out!

Sure thing!

Wednesday I should receive both the cooler and the Arctic MX-6 I ordered.

[Imago]

The cooler arrived one day earlier, yay!

As promised here are the results: 15 C° less under heavy load! Really heavy load, 3D animation renders.

Now, instead of reaching 94C° in about one minute, the temp doesn't go over 79,5C° in hours of heavy tasks.

This brand is really nice, the cooler is easy to install (even easier than the one that used the AMD stock clip), it came with a super silent 1550 RPM fan and a nice tube of TF-4 thermal paste (enough for three applications as I can see, a really good amount!). Also, the paste seems to be really high quality, it's really thick and firm and really easy to spread.

 

Again, thanks everybody for the tips, they helped me a lot!

 

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, Imago said:

The cooler arrived one day earlier, yay!

As promised here are the results: 15 C° less under heavy load! Really heavy load, 3D animation renders.

Now, instead of reaching 94C° in about one minute, the temp doesn't go over 79,5C° in hours of heavy tasks.

This brand is really nice, the cooler is easy to install (even easier than the one that used the AMD stock clip), it came with a super silent 1550 RPM fan and a nice tube of TF-4 thermal paste (enough for three applications as I can see, a really good amount!). Also, the paste seems to be really high quality, it's really thick and firm and really easy to spread.

 

Again, thanks everybody for the tips, they helped me a lot!

 

Glad to hear that! BTW, most people don't follow threads like I do, so you should name the people you want to thank. 

[Imago]

2 hours ago, RevGAM said:

Glad to hear that! BTW, most people don't follow threads like I do, so you should name the people you want to thank. 

Yes, you are right.

I'm quite new of the forum, there's a way to do that, maybe a function like the "mark as solution"?

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, Imago said:

Yes, you are right.

I'm quite new of the forum, there's a way to do that, maybe a function like the "mark as solution"?

Mark as solution is used so you can give credit to the person who helped you the most, but it won't alert everyone who helped you. You'll need to list them by typing @ (each time) and then their user name; a drop-down list will appear and the forum will try to help you with a list of likely names as you type. For example, @ and my name RevGAM, results in: @RevGAM.

[Imago]

@RevGAM@Mark Kaine@Levent@TatamiMatt@will0hlep@lafrente@porina@mariushm@VennbergsU@GarlicDeliverySystem@OddOod

I wish to thank everyone for the help, every comment here gave me a precious piece of info that helped me choose the new cooler.

Thanks a whole lot!

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Imago said:

@RevGAM@Mark Kaine@Levent@TatamiMatt@will0hlep@lafrente@porina@mariushm@VennbergsU@GarlicDeliverySystem@OddOod

I wish to thank everyone for the help, every comment here gave me a precious piece of info that helped me choose the new cooler.

Thanks a whole lot!

yeah, that wasn't easy to figure out, but I guess the cooler you had just wasn't any good!

 

and yeah, especially noctua coolers are extremely easy to mount, i think that's why i like them,  plus i like the looks, as long they're dark/black/grey =)

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:33 PM, Imago said:

Ok... But how common sense could tell me if the 300$ high end industrial grade cooler I'm going to instal

i probably already said it, but you never should have to pay more than 100, and even that is overkill in most cases,  on the contrary, often the stock cooler is more than enough, especially for AMD. 

 

It might be annoying and whiny, but it's still good enough so nothing overheats as long case cooling is ok'ish ~